China Airlines (update)
 

For anyone looking for a place to work, I thought you might like some updated information on China Airlines. I was at a fleet meeting yesterday and saw a few people in various departments who encouraged me to make it known that China Airlines needs pilots primarily 744 First Officers and Cruise Captains. They'll need A330 people in 2004 when deliveries start.

Now before some of my friends and best critics jump up and down <bg>, I don't win a toaster or a blender for anybody that comes here!!! Many of us like CAL and accept it and obviously there are some unhappy people too. Just like any airline. But I think that most of us here would like good people to come here to Taipei and start with CAL. If you get people here that will make it better,it will get better.

This is all public information really,but CAL is getting 3 more airplanes in 2003, (doing this from memory),9 in 2004, 8 in 2005, and 2 in 2006. Only 2 747F (rope starts) are being phased out shortly. There are a combination of 747-400 Freighters, 747-400 Pax airplanes, 12 A330s starting June,2004,one A340 and a 737-800 next month.

They are interviewing a number of Singapore guys in the next month and then interviews begin again with others that I have talked to. It appears they are booking interviews about 2-3 months out. The process seems to take 4 days plus travel time. The physical is extensive compared to other countries and companies.

The next development is that apparently a hurdle has been removed to allow people to upgrade to Captain/Command based on performance and proficiency rather than some fixed period of time. I remember there were a few people who didn't want to start as F/O or Cruise Captain. But even if you do and a lot of my friends did, there is no hurdle or restriction to upgrading now once you and CAL think you are ready. To me,this is a major step and improvement.

I saw from the website of www.china-airlines.com that CAL has one of the world's youngest fleets of 5.9 years and that will go lower when the 2 old Freighters are parked.

China may also change their basing policy in the near future. It is not official and being actively discussed. Right now, only Captains are based outside of Taiwan. I have noticed that the pay is better than many places in the world.It is not back to where it was,but most airlines aren't either. Also in income tax is lower than many places in the world. One thing I found interesting is that there is a housing allowance and transportation costs can be zero. They pick one up in a small bus and then take you to the major international airport from the headquarters in downtown Taipei. Of course, you could be brave enough to try a motorscooter in TPE but this is a dangerous sport. All I have is a bus card for my own travel.

Anyway, I thought anybody looking for a job might like to know of these developments.

I noted recently that my old Airline in the U.S. continues to lose money at record rates and has continued to furlough pilots. There are over 100 being furloughed in December and there appears to be no end in sight.

JIM

Dear Jim,

Thank you. Do you know how long it can take for them to post a reply to an application? I think when there is a sound of silence after an application is made, it feels rather scary.

I would not worry too much. They are booked ahead for a few months and I know there are a lot of Singapore guys interested.

So give it a few weeks or so.

CAL
 

Hi Jim,

As you know couple of agencies down south are looking for 400 FOs for your company, the salary is US $4.400/month, my question is: How far below the poverty line would they be, if they accept this sort of salary in Taipei?????

Looking forward to your reply.......cheers....:p

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the wonderful update.

Regards.

74world:

I know you asked this question of Jim, but I'll answer. How far below the poverty level would someone be living in Taipei on USD 4400 per month. I have many good friends and relatives living in Taiwan who only make USD 800 per month. So the answer is it depends on how you want to live. To get a decent apartment in a decent section of Taipei would cost about USD 1000 to USD 1500 per month. I say decent, meaning decent by western standards. Eating could only cost about 100 NTD per meal if you and your spouse could live on street food ( which is quite good and very safe ). You wouldn't need a car so transportation is by taxi, bus, and MRT which is very affordable. Health Insurance is dirt cheap compared to the States.


You could live very well in Taipei for that kind of money. You may not be able to save a whole lot, but it wouldn't be a bad life.

Typhoopilot

Typhoopilot answered it quite well and with authority and facts. I have not actually seen the F/O numbers because they just don't post them on the war nor in the Taiwan news. But I don't think your figures are too far off. Cruise Captains make more and Captains make even more.

I should also reiterate that CAL is short of pilots and those people that talk to me (they often seek me out) tell me that they continue to need good good qualified pilots relatively quickly. And by quickly, I mean in the next 6 months which is "quickly" by airline hiring standards.

We just got schedules for October today. This is only my second airline and I am not sued to getting "next month's" schedule this late in the month,but I have learned that the last week of the month is more the world's norm than in my previous life. I have about 88 hours which is my next point.

The salaries that the other gentleman posted are likely for 70 hours which is the minimum pay. Many fleets here are in the 80s and 90s on hours. There is overtime pay, a housing allowance, a per diem for food, transportation which is included at no cost to the pilot, and even a few dollars for Dragon Boat Festival and Chinese New Year. (I wouldn't come here just for the Dragon Boat Pay!)


On the price of meals, $100 NT is almost $3 USD and that will get you through a local restaurant many of which are fine.

My Aussie friends here are good at hunting down bargains and finding good restaurants and I can tell you that about a meal costs you about $2.50 US at the bottom (if you order water) to about $30 USD for a fancy major restaurant. If you drink a couple of beers and eat moderately, it will be about $10-12 USD and that is more common.

I can tell you that my per diem about covers my food for the month and it is paid for over 20 days per month whether working or not.

Another plus to CAL is that I have had the exact 8+ days off per month that I asked for every month and received vacation days when I wanted them. At my previous carrier, it was a crap shoot and seniority ruled ( I was junior and sometimes senior from time to time). Sometimes you won, and sometimes you lost.
I posted most of the changes or proposed changes in the posting yesterday,so very little is changed since yesterday.

I did see some numbers today and CAL does need pilots. So if you want the job, I think any one should apply. Considering the worldwide market today, I'll bet less than 25% of the airlines are hiring and most are furloughing or on the edge of bankruptcy. CAL and a few others are doing most of the hiring.

Oh, and comparing CAL pay to what I saw on another region of the world's thread, CAL is FAR BETTER.

I want to dispel the rumor that we live in mud huts and carry spear guns!

My first choice would be to be at home in Florida on a beach feeding seagulls,but I have to earn money to do that! <bfg>

Hi,
Nice to hear details like these about CAL. I applied to CAL about a month back for A300-600 Capt's post but I am yet to hear from them. I am rated and meet their requirements but it seems they don't need pilots for A300-600. Does anyone know whats happening on A300-600?

*

Anyone wonder why old Jimbo here is the only one with anything good to say about CAL?

How is it that a guy who has been in CAL for such a short period of time and is in the left seat has such a good understanding of how it is for many of us who have been here much longer?

Jim your doing a great job recruiting for this company but I feel your also not giving the whole picture. Why not hear from someone else on this forum about what it's really like at CAL? How about JOB security? How about management and the crews you'll be working with? How many guys have been fired in the last 18 months? How about the operation or the standard or the hotels or??? How about something other than it's a paycheck in a tough market?

And maybe a FOs perspective would be usefull as this is the position they are most short of and the position they are haveing the most trouble retaining guys.

Boxboy 747, you seem to have another perspective on Cal which, I am sure, will be of great interest to many others including myself, so how about it.

i know a lot about CAL
 

anyone interested in CAL, drop me a PM

i will post more about CAL in a few more days.. stay tuned

Application
 

I filled out the marathon application form around 7 months ago... no response. :confused: Anyone have any ideas?

to 1269
 

1269
If you would tell us some thing about yourself like your hours experience (p1,p2,pic) against aircraft type, some of us might be able to give you some advice about why you were not called for selection, and further advice on how you may be able to improve your appeal to the airlines.

Sure: 10,000 hours / 3500 heavy jet / 1000 heavy jet P1 / JAR-FCL / Currently flying ATR42/72 as TRI..?

Regards

Space Driver and anyone else that has applied:

I would call or write the office with an update. Like any airline hiring office, things change and applications can sit around.

To the facts, CAL gets A330s next year and the "plan" is to transition the AB600 guys to the Aibrus 330. Obviously people that have flown Airbusses would be natural to any airbus products. At least that is what my Aussie former 320 guys tell me.

CAL needs 747-400 people mostly. I think there are only 4 US Operators and that is why there is not a great surplus of people with experience on this airplane with the exception of the Singapore guys ,some of which are currently interviewing. This will go on for a while.

CAL will continue to get 744PAX and 744F airplanes. I just flew the latest new freighter yesterday from ANC to TPE and it is a neat clean airplane. And it does very well at 44,000' in the block!
(yes we were light returning to TPE as is always the case).

But like any airline, there is turnover, retirements, and firings. So CAL will be hiring for a while and mostly in 744s. But there is another 737-800 coming and people do leave. More on that later.

NOW TO THE BOXGUY747

I don't know who you are. To you and the readers, most anything you write will not get my "goat" nor bother me. But I will tell you that most people leave public forums because they get sick of being beat up.

My goal now and has always been is to help anybody who wants to work as a pilot specifically at China Airlines to find a job. I would prefer to have good people at CAL rather than flying with the dregs of aviation. I personally would like to see good people and high quality people come to China.

That doesn't infer that many are not already here like that because they are. Some of the best people in the world do work here and that includes many of the world's major airlines. In fact, the two guys I flew with for the last 5 days were better than my former carrier if we look at averages.

CAL uses a different system than UAL did on the 400. UAL had only one Captain and all type rated First Officers. The flying guy could be next week's "bunkie" as they were called.

At CAL, it is not uncommon to have two Captains, a cruise Captain and some number of F/Os.

Prior to CAL, I had only worked for one employer my entire life. It was not exactly a wonderful model career. (I'll save that for another time). But 21 years to make Captain was hardly the industry/world's average.

United has some labor troubles <bfg> in 2000 and then 9/11 came. The U.S. airline industry was headed downhill since then. I find it interesting also that only two airlines lost employees and airplanes on 9/11 and mine was one of them. In fact, I lost one of my friends on one of the UAL flights on 9/11. It was a sad day attending his funeral. But I digress.

I cite this only because I had no intention to leave my employer five years early had it not been for the above and the bankruptcy. It was one of the biggest decisions I ever made.

That leads to CAL.

Two years ago, I had barely heard of them. 12 months ago was the first time was the first time I had ever ever thought about looking for a job since I was 21. So I wished somebody could have been of assistance in the last year and I hope to be.

This is a good time for people looking for a job. PERIOD!

Now to BOXBOY's apparent complaint to which I will not dodge. That is not my nature.

Do I have good things to say about CAl? Actaully YES. Who knows? I may not survive my first year. I have no idea. But I do know that the people that surround me have been excellent. There is the usual airline "goat rope" where many things don't get communicated and you can't find out WHY something is happening. And YES, the language problem does add to this dillemma.

I have new friends from many countries and I have new friends in other departments at CAL. It's a growing company in an area where of the world that is generally warm,rains sometimes, and has earthquakes.

But right now, there are not many jobs that pay what CAL pays in the world that is growing and not furloughing pilots. And there are other areas of the world that I am GLAD that I don't have to go to simply to find an aviation job. I think I would rather not fly rather than go to some of these places. There are plenty of lower paying jobs in my own country and in fact, I often get job offers. The truth is I am not currently interested.

So for BOXBOY or anybody else, you either accept where the job is or head for a different occupation. Bitching to me (and us) isn't going to solve anything!

Now BOXBOY sounds to this guy that he is NOT very happy, angry that I am a Captain (gee, do I deserve this or should I come back when I get a little more experience???), or that he is a COpilot. It sounds like all three to tell you the truth.

Many of my friends are copilots (and a hell of a lot more gracious than BOXBOY) . I think I remember many eyars as a flight engineer and as a copilot. I think I remember the long raod to being Captain, getting furloughed, getting bumped back to F/E and all the fun things that go with an airline aviation career.

So I am not sure what the big complaint that BOXBOY pontificates over.

So now the most humourous comment is how I have such a "good understanding". Since I have only been at CAL since May 5th (and received one month off without pay during SARs like most of my other CAL friends to save the Company money((it was not voluntary)), I have to agree that I probably have less time than BOXBOY. But at least I am not afraid to put my name on my opinion!

I am not sure what" understanding" BOXBOY wants me to have. The facts are you bring your credentials to the party and someone either hires you or they don't. You either take the job offer or you don't. It's quite simple. No one at CAL is under any compulsion to stay here. I certainly am not. In fact, they just reduced the time of notice to resign to 10 days. I hardly think that anybody has a gun to their head to stay here or anywhere.

I do it because I like it. I like the people and I do like receiving a paycheck. I would like to continue paying a house mortgage and keep my airplane.

And for BOXBOY, if I am doing such a fine job at recruiting, then maybe I should get my own office, some stock options, a secretary, and view of downtown TPE(other than from the crew room) and maybe they'll double my pay. I am surprised that Larry King has not called me for a one hour special some night. Wait, I hear the phone ringing. Could it be him?

So how about job security? Easy answer. There is very little. I can leave CAL on short notice and they can fire or lay off pilot employees on 30 days notice. You keep flying and they keep sending the check. If not then leave and see another line of work or employer. Simple.

How's the hotel? Well, it is your basic 2+ star hotel close to the airline's headquarters. It is in one of most prestigeous areas of town. CAL has an expat crew lounge. I'll see some of you at 6 which is a daily tradition with most of us.

How about the crews and management? Well, when in TPE, I am to the headquarters for a few hours when I have nothing better to do and to check mail. I also get paid. A wonderful rewarding experience. How many have been fired in the last 18 months? Well, I heard some 65 or more. Most because of sim failures and the inability to use CLR/CRM. That's why a lot of expats ARE here. As for the pilots I have flown with since I have been here, there is nobody that I have had a problem with.

I would like to hear ANYBODY's viewpoint here whether they agree or disagree with me. I can only speak for myself.

And IF you are a F/O a CAL, then why aren't you the next candidate for Captain? Don't want it? Can't get it?

Gee, at a meeting last week attended by the Senior VP and 100 of the CAL pilots), they announced there were no restrictions to upgrade except for ability. There is no longer any mandatory wait nor hours.

I have another fleet meeting on the 8th. so maybe I can find out some more information.

But in the meantime, I'll keep doing what I enjoy in a place that has thus far been a nice place to work. I am going out for my daily 5 mile walk around Taipei. It sure beats a lot of places that I COULD be in the world. Time for the afternoon pub crawl and the gathering later tonight.

I hope that this has been as meaningful for you to read as it was for me to write. Maybe some people ought to go get a life.

JIM

Hi Jim,

Please check your Private Messages


Thanks.

Jim Morehead
 

Well said mate! :ok:

Now; can you help me get a job there...? :D

Dear Jim morhead,
I have sent CVS to all China Airlines..the EAST, the WEST ,the SOUTH..for a F/O position.
However,I believe I have some better chance to apply as a S/O (anything to keep me up there),should I send another set of CVs?

Thank you,

Flyer75

I forgot..I have a full JAA and FAA ATPL(A).2600 multi turbine time(above 5t7).

Cheers:ok:

Flyer75

Hi Etops & Jim
 

Please check your PMs

Thanks!

LR25ec

Will check PMs.

I would reapply to the Personnel office. Things do change and I think some answers may be forthcoming. There was talk of some new bases in some fleets are I've run into a number of new people in the crew room and walking around the various offices at the crew center in downtown Taipei where CAL has the SIMs, training departments, and pilot and cabin crew facilities.


As for anybody's personal chances of getting hired and getting an interview, I don't think they will allow any of us to find out how a specific person is progressing (Or not). I think it is a privacy thing.

I am heading for ANC again tonight for a few days. Not looking forward to rain and cold weather. Taipei's hot summer is cooling off and the days get up to about 28C/82F. The last few days have been beautiful.

And for the chronic complainers,I/we are eagerly awaiting your information about how bad the world is. Seems like some people are not very happy in anything they do.

JIM

China Airlines has this chart on their career page........

EXPATRIATE FIRST OFFICERS Qualification
Age Total flying hours
34 1,500
35 2,000
36 2,500
37 3,000
38 3,500
39 4,000
40 4,500
41 5,000
42 5,500

I am 47 years old with 15,000 hours (4000 jet) (1600 B767 F/O)

Does this mean that I would not be considered????

Thanks,

Mike Sowsun

Hey Jim
 

Is there anyway an applicant could find out how their application is progressing? I just checked and my last application (to which I've not had a reply) went in on the 17th of January 2003. I've just completed the forms again (and kept a copy this time) and will mail them on monday. You reckon I should follow it up or what's the ettiquette there? :ok:

Greetings from cold rainy Anchorage.

The qualifications posted are not necessarily requirements as I understand it. Most people exceed them in one category or another. There are people hired without a specific type rating because they had experience in other airplanes or check airmen capabilities.
A lot of recent hires had thousands of hours in 737s and 146s. CAL operates the 737-800 and no 146s. Even some 737 Captains ended up on the 744 as Captain or F/Os. So I would not hestitate to apply and follow up on my application.

I am not sure there is a protocol. I think most personnel offices want to see interest without overwhelming them. More hours, a new ratings, a change of address,etc. would be a good way to make sure they know you are interested.

China Airlines careers web site info
 

I can’t find the China Airlines careers web site, I wonder if anyone will be able to provide the link...:confused:

Is there any other way to apply for a job with China Airlines?

Thanks for the info.

:ok:

Career link not displayed.

Thanks for the info Goofyfoot however it seems that the career link is not displayed there anymore. Maybe the link has been removed or they are not accepting any more applicants at this time. :{
Thanks anyway.

AlfaMike..

It's still there, mate.

Here's the link:
http://www.china-airlines.com/en/about/about_career.htm

Cheers, :ok:

FC

Thanks FC
 

Got it !! Thank you FC...:ok:

cal new breed,

moral at cal is at a rock bottom low! believe me i know what i am talking about!

the expat maybe getting a pay increase but, not for the local pilots! there is a huge pay difference between the expat and the local which the expat are paid lots lots more than the local pilots.

DFO Chou is destroying CAL's moral ever since he joined the company.

having been there for 6 years, i know a lot more about cal than you and jim can imagine.

ETOPS777 or anybody...I am not the spokesman for China Airlines or anybody except myself. I am a line pilot who enjoys China Airlines and the job I currently hold.

I don't ask anybody about personal questions of what they make nor how they view their jobs.

All of us who take the employment here and other places do so voluntarily,so I don't understand what the problem is that certain people face. No local I have flown with has been less than happy and they don't spend hours complaining about the things that some seem to complain about in this thread.

Some new people started in a pilot class a few weeks ago and some others started yesterday. I wish them and you all sucess in what you do.

For this portion of my life, it has been nice and I am enjoying it.

I'll promise you that if I find that I am not being treated fairly or honestly, you'll be the first to know!

There is plenty of flying here and I head to North America twice in the next in the next 7 days. On one of the trips I fly with two newly hired expats,so we have plenty of time so talk over the world's problems.

And while I am thinking of it, I can tell you that I have enjoyed the locals I have flown with also and I think them with me. While language sometimes is better or worse with some, we talk about everything from world politics, Mainland China politics, to George Bush , to the American Economy, and many things that might surprise you.

...kinda futile to ask....but would almost 2000 hrs of piston time be enough to get in ?

Age 28

FAA ATP
JAR CPL/IR frozen ATPL

:confused:

how much are you guys getting
 

hi,

may i ask a blunt question? how much are you guys getting at CAL? nett?

China Airlines F/o
 

Hi people,
I'd like to know what are the real chances for a experienced commercial pilot, with none type rating, has an interview with China Airlines? Please, send me informations about that......

They are looking for experienced english speaking commercial pilots to babysit their local pilots. I'm sure you're well qualified.

Hi Brazilian,
You should give it a try.
Log on CA site and fill out tha application, I think you may be succesfull.
Good luck to you.
Fbwdude.

thanks people.....

What is the standard pay for such an airline as this? Does it vary according to what a/c you are assigned to? some very nice destinations there. you'd think it would be a reasonable rig!
what is it really like?! :p

NON-TYPE RATED F/Os
 

3 YEAR CONTRACT

BASE: ( TPE )

MONTHLY REMUNERATION: ( gross/monthly paid off shore based on 70 flying hours/month, overtime payable monthly )

A/C TYPE AFTER CHECKOUT LINE TRAINING GROUND SCHOOL

B747-400 US$5200 US$4700 US$4100
A340 5200 4700 4100
AB6 3700 3200 2800
B737-800 3700 3200 2800


COMPLETION BONUS: US$5000 PAYABLE AFTER COMPLETION OF 3 YEARS OF SERVICE.

SICK LEAVE: 5 DAYS/ANNUM

SALARY REVIEW: CPI REVIEW EVERY DECEMBER

ACCOMODATION: HOUSING ALLOWANCE OF US$1000/MONTH

DAYS FREE OF DUTY: A MINIMUM OF 8 CONSECUTIVE DAYS OFF PER MONTH

ANNUAL LEAVE: 24 DAYS PER ANNUM ACCRUED AT 2 DAYS A MONTH AFTER THE 4th MONTH.

I HOPE THIS WILL HELP A LITTLE.:

Thanks people....but what are the ral chances for a no type rating commercial pilot having the chance to get a job with CAL?