SIA crew to take unpaid leave (merged)
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SIA crew to take unpaid leave
In The Straits Times edition of 1 May 2003, Home Section, page H1, in the sub-heading, "Carrier asks its cabin crew to take 7 days every 2 months to cut costs"
"The carrier also said that discussions about a similar scheme for pilots will be held with the pilot's union, the Air Line Pilots Association Singapore."
"The carrier also said that discussions about a similar scheme for pilots will be held with the pilot's union, the Air Line Pilots Association Singapore."
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Well looks like finally SQ management has found reason to
execute it's long time wish list of 25% pay cut..
Of couse it will not sound that was but in a form known as
NPL..
More cheap cheap days ahead... where in the world can u
get labour this cheap... but here..
My thoughts go to the expats , cause they face uncertain times
execute it's long time wish list of 25% pay cut..
Of couse it will not sound that was but in a form known as
NPL..
More cheap cheap days ahead... where in the world can u
get labour this cheap... but here..
My thoughts go to the expats , cause they face uncertain times
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I think the pilots' union here is dominated by the locals and poor expat crew have no say. I feel union members are going to say no to the CNPL. They would be more than willing to get the Overseas based and few expat crew thrown out. The usual way of thinking for the locals
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No Say
twitchy yes the expats have no say in the union, but thats the way it should be. Expats dont deserve a say in any union in any country they are in, 'REMEMBER THEY ARE EXPATS'. Expats are in a company only for the money and lifestyle. It is the absolute wright of the local to deny the expat a wright in any say in the union.
Remember its the local's country and national company the expat is working in.
Otherwise if expats got they wanted the company would turn into what Cathay is. 'FULL OF DIRTY EXPATS AND WHITE BOYS ONLY'
Remember its the local's country and national company the expat is working in.
Otherwise if expats got they wanted the company would turn into what Cathay is. 'FULL OF DIRTY EXPATS AND WHITE BOYS ONLY'
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Quote from WILCO77
Expats are in a company only for the money and lifestyle. It is the absolute wright of the local to deny the expat a wright in any say in the union.
Remember its the local's country and national company the expat is working in.
Otherwise if expats got they wanted the company would turn into what Cathay is. 'FULL OF DIRTY EXPATS AND WHITE BOYS ONLY'
Unquote
wilco77 you have the right to say what you feel but it will be better if you try and learn how to write.......i am amazed that a person who can't differentiate between and doesn't know the meaning of "right" and "Write" is flying for SIA.
I don't think its correct on my part to argue with you about anything in this forum, unless i want to defeat the very purpose of this forum. "Will it be right on my part to say that we the people of Chinese origin have no place out side china" Do you understand if world is full of people like you......how the scene is gonna be.........................................................d isaster my friend.
Expats are in a company only for the money and lifestyle. It is the absolute wright of the local to deny the expat a wright in any say in the union.
Remember its the local's country and national company the expat is working in.
Otherwise if expats got they wanted the company would turn into what Cathay is. 'FULL OF DIRTY EXPATS AND WHITE BOYS ONLY'
Unquote
wilco77 you have the right to say what you feel but it will be better if you try and learn how to write.......i am amazed that a person who can't differentiate between and doesn't know the meaning of "right" and "Write" is flying for SIA.
I don't think its correct on my part to argue with you about anything in this forum, unless i want to defeat the very purpose of this forum. "Will it be right on my part to say that we the people of Chinese origin have no place out side china" Do you understand if world is full of people like you......how the scene is gonna be.........................................................d isaster my friend.
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Right Wright Write
Since there seems to be so much difficulty with these words,
Wilco77:
1000 lines of:
wright is not the same as right
Reference: "It is the absolute wright of the local to deny the expat a wright in any say in the union."
Twitchy:
1000 lines of:
write is not the same as wright
Reference: "wilco77 you have the right to say what you feel but it will be better if you try and learn how to write.......i am amazed that a person who can't differentiate between and doesn't know the meaning of "right" and "Write" is flying for SIA."
Both of you stand in the corner.
BTW, Might is Right.
But's that's another story.
Wilco77:
1000 lines of:
wright is not the same as right
Reference: "It is the absolute wright of the local to deny the expat a wright in any say in the union."
Twitchy:
1000 lines of:
write is not the same as wright
Reference: "wilco77 you have the right to say what you feel but it will be better if you try and learn how to write.......i am amazed that a person who can't differentiate between and doesn't know the meaning of "right" and "Write" is flying for SIA."
Both of you stand in the corner.
BTW, Might is Right.
But's that's another story.
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Such resentment.....
Wilco77 ~ I am amazed you think that we should have no rights. We have all the rights accorded to us with the exception of voting. How about us Northerners who are on local terms. The union exists to serve our interests collectively.
This mentality is all Singaporean and all very convenient when its all hunky dory. When it comes to the crunch (sic 006 ~ pardon the pun), lots were quick to point out that it was my fellow countryman in command.
This airline is staffed by more foreign talent than you know, but then what would you know about it, unless you were part of it right?
Not all expats are the white boys... I totally agree with something I read that the expats serve as a good form of check and balance. Look at the appauling state of Dynasty...
"They are very quick when they want you and equally quick to turn their back on you when they are done with you". That is the Gomen.
Try using your spell check or stick to www.talkingcock.com
Bon nuit!
Captain LEE Sir,
We should revive our cost saving suggestion... BTW you did not tell us what she said to you when she wanted you to warm her sheets.
I'll gladly give up my Raffles seat for choice pickings hows that? Even better if we could save the company more money with the "Menage a trois" scheme and help push up the birth rate, good for the company and the economy. The gomen will give you the "Pingkat AMN".
Senso
---------------------
Airbus - "Where is the slot for the token?"
This mentality is all Singaporean and all very convenient when its all hunky dory. When it comes to the crunch (sic 006 ~ pardon the pun), lots were quick to point out that it was my fellow countryman in command.
This airline is staffed by more foreign talent than you know, but then what would you know about it, unless you were part of it right?
Not all expats are the white boys... I totally agree with something I read that the expats serve as a good form of check and balance. Look at the appauling state of Dynasty...
"They are very quick when they want you and equally quick to turn their back on you when they are done with you". That is the Gomen.
Try using your spell check or stick to www.talkingcock.com
Bon nuit!
Captain LEE Sir,
We should revive our cost saving suggestion... BTW you did not tell us what she said to you when she wanted you to warm her sheets.
I'll gladly give up my Raffles seat for choice pickings hows that? Even better if we could save the company more money with the "Menage a trois" scheme and help push up the birth rate, good for the company and the economy. The gomen will give you the "Pingkat AMN".
Senso
---------------------
Airbus - "Where is the slot for the token?"
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No-pay leave row with pilots: SIA set for arbitration
Oh dear me....another row on hand ? Is relationship that strained in one of the world's most profitable airlines ?
Cheers
see:
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sto...90381,00.html?
MAY 22, 2003
No-pay leave row with pilots: SIA set for arbitration
By Helmi Yusof
SINGAPORE Airlines (SIA) is prepared to go to arbitration if it cannot agree with its pilots on wage-cost reductions.
SIA's chief executive, Dr Cheong Choong Kong, said yesterday: 'We don't have the luxury of time. And if we can't reach agreement within one or two meetings, we will have to take the matter to arbitration.'
The pilots, who are represented by the Air Line Pilots Association-Singapore (Alpa-S), are equally adamant.
They refused to budge on their resolution on Tuesday calling on SIA to first axe about 120 pilots not directly employed by the airline but by a subsidiary based in Mauritius, before calling for sacrifices by Alpa-S members.
On May 2, to cut costs, SIA's management asked pilots to take 10 to 12 days of no-pay leave every two months, slightly more than what the cabin crew had been told to take.
Yesterday, at a press conference on its financial performance, Dr Cheong said pay cuts and layoffs were possible. The airline has had to cut a third of its flight capacity because of economic conditions.
He praised cabin crew for agreeing to unpaid leave and noted that the pilots had not. The 6,600-plus flight attendants are to go on seven days' unpaid leave every two months until next March.
When the company is 'bleeding from day to day', Dr Cheong said, he was disappointed that the pilots were trying to take advantage of the situation.
According to him, the pilots were trying to get SIA to 'change a very basic principle which the company has always adhered to... that all our employees all over the world... have equal rights'.
He insisted the overseas-based pilots were no different from other SIA employees. 'They are seconded pilots in a very technical sense, because they are employed by a 100-per-cent-owned subsidiary of ours.
'They will have to take their share of pain also, but no more and no less than any other pilot,' he promised.
Hours after the SIA press conference, Alpa-S president Dilip Padbidri, vice-president Frank John and treasurer P. James turned up unexpectedly at News Centre, Singapore Press Holdings' headquarters, to challenge that notion of pilot equality.
Overseas-based pilots, they said, have always been given preferential treatment over Singapore-based flight crew.
Said Capt Padbidri: 'They earn between 15 and 20 per cent more than Singapore pilots, have a fixed roster planned six months in advance for them, and do not have to do stand-by duty.'
Singapore-based pilots are often on standby and, when overseas-based pilots call in sick, 'we have to cover for them', said Capt James.
The Alpa-S leaders said that in the past three months, overseas-based pilots have continued to clock 80 hours a month while Singapore pilots have seen their flying hours halved or worse.
Flying allowances can make up as much as 25 per cent of a pilot's pay.
Alpa-S vice-president Frank John said the union and its members were indeed willing to accept unpaid leave and wage cuts - 'but only after the issue of overseas-based pilots is addressed'.
Cheers
see:
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/sto...90381,00.html?
MAY 22, 2003
No-pay leave row with pilots: SIA set for arbitration
By Helmi Yusof
SINGAPORE Airlines (SIA) is prepared to go to arbitration if it cannot agree with its pilots on wage-cost reductions.
SIA's chief executive, Dr Cheong Choong Kong, said yesterday: 'We don't have the luxury of time. And if we can't reach agreement within one or two meetings, we will have to take the matter to arbitration.'
The pilots, who are represented by the Air Line Pilots Association-Singapore (Alpa-S), are equally adamant.
They refused to budge on their resolution on Tuesday calling on SIA to first axe about 120 pilots not directly employed by the airline but by a subsidiary based in Mauritius, before calling for sacrifices by Alpa-S members.
On May 2, to cut costs, SIA's management asked pilots to take 10 to 12 days of no-pay leave every two months, slightly more than what the cabin crew had been told to take.
Yesterday, at a press conference on its financial performance, Dr Cheong said pay cuts and layoffs were possible. The airline has had to cut a third of its flight capacity because of economic conditions.
He praised cabin crew for agreeing to unpaid leave and noted that the pilots had not. The 6,600-plus flight attendants are to go on seven days' unpaid leave every two months until next March.
When the company is 'bleeding from day to day', Dr Cheong said, he was disappointed that the pilots were trying to take advantage of the situation.
According to him, the pilots were trying to get SIA to 'change a very basic principle which the company has always adhered to... that all our employees all over the world... have equal rights'.
He insisted the overseas-based pilots were no different from other SIA employees. 'They are seconded pilots in a very technical sense, because they are employed by a 100-per-cent-owned subsidiary of ours.
'They will have to take their share of pain also, but no more and no less than any other pilot,' he promised.
Hours after the SIA press conference, Alpa-S president Dilip Padbidri, vice-president Frank John and treasurer P. James turned up unexpectedly at News Centre, Singapore Press Holdings' headquarters, to challenge that notion of pilot equality.
Overseas-based pilots, they said, have always been given preferential treatment over Singapore-based flight crew.
Said Capt Padbidri: 'They earn between 15 and 20 per cent more than Singapore pilots, have a fixed roster planned six months in advance for them, and do not have to do stand-by duty.'
Singapore-based pilots are often on standby and, when overseas-based pilots call in sick, 'we have to cover for them', said Capt James.
The Alpa-S leaders said that in the past three months, overseas-based pilots have continued to clock 80 hours a month while Singapore pilots have seen their flying hours halved or worse.
Flying allowances can make up as much as 25 per cent of a pilot's pay.
Alpa-S vice-president Frank John said the union and its members were indeed willing to accept unpaid leave and wage cuts - 'but only after the issue of overseas-based pilots is addressed'.
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Hypocrisy or what?
Could this be the same Dr. Cheong that, having finally agreed a bonus formula with the pilots, on publishing of the company figures immedialtely renaged on it and caused a prelonged delay and pay-out? Similar to the protracted negotiations for the CA that eventually involved thirty months back pay which he insisted be paid in two increments without interest? And as for saying that overseas staff, (excluding pilots), get treated the same, would he care to attend a meeting of the ground staff in, say, AMS, LHR, FRA and America and see if they agree with him?
Dr. Cheong is making very cheap mileage out of the ALPA(S) refusal to lie down and be stuffed, here on PPRuNe and in the Straits Times it is relatively harmless but he may wish to change his tune fairly quickly before his utterings get out in to the wider audience where his gross miss management and his malign hatred of tech crew is exposed.
All power to your elbow ALPA(S), Dr Cheong is playing with words and emotions in an effort to cover up his own shortcomings, blaming the pilots is just about as low as one can go. Dr Cheong, from his statements, comes across as a pathetic little man who seems to have run out of basic good manners and basic good reason who has never taken the employees seriously, only his beloved shareholders.
Dr. Cheong is making very cheap mileage out of the ALPA(S) refusal to lie down and be stuffed, here on PPRuNe and in the Straits Times it is relatively harmless but he may wish to change his tune fairly quickly before his utterings get out in to the wider audience where his gross miss management and his malign hatred of tech crew is exposed.
All power to your elbow ALPA(S), Dr Cheong is playing with words and emotions in an effort to cover up his own shortcomings, blaming the pilots is just about as low as one can go. Dr Cheong, from his statements, comes across as a pathetic little man who seems to have run out of basic good manners and basic good reason who has never taken the employees seriously, only his beloved shareholders.
Last edited by G.Khan; 22nd May 2003 at 20:24.
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G.Khan You hit the nail right on the head again!!! You are becoming my hero.!!
Bonus for Year is 3.23 months basic salary. But paycuts and retrenchment coming fast.
The CEO has never acknowledged his bungling failure over the $2Billion he lost in AirNZ/Ansett and Virgin.
He applauds the cabin crew for ageeing to take unpaid leave but they ALL have no say in matters as ALL decisions are taken by the officials on the council and never put to the Vote. That is democracy the Singapore way.
The pilots going to Arbitration over the not sacking the 'outsiders' ie those employed by SIA Mauritius is just a way of the company getting their way through the Government controlled civil servants. Arbitration = Company getting their way with the force of the Law behind it!!!
Obviously with the downturn in business jobs have got to go but for SIA to suggest{ when it now suits them over the SIA Mauritius business} that all employees are equal beggars belief.
Bonus for Year is 3.23 months basic salary. But paycuts and retrenchment coming fast.
The CEO has never acknowledged his bungling failure over the $2Billion he lost in AirNZ/Ansett and Virgin.
He applauds the cabin crew for ageeing to take unpaid leave but they ALL have no say in matters as ALL decisions are taken by the officials on the council and never put to the Vote. That is democracy the Singapore way.
The pilots going to Arbitration over the not sacking the 'outsiders' ie those employed by SIA Mauritius is just a way of the company getting their way through the Government controlled civil servants. Arbitration = Company getting their way with the force of the Law behind it!!!
Obviously with the downturn in business jobs have got to go but for SIA to suggest{ when it now suits them over the SIA Mauritius business} that all employees are equal beggars belief.
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Wilco77
Wash your dirty mouth out with soap!
I hope you donīt have a pilot licence or just taking the piss!!
I reckon I have a couple of legs to stand in this debate. Asia has been my home for the whole of my life, and quite frankly I am not leaving.
First problem is I cannot get a national citizenship of a country like HKG or SIN. The support from the local governments is to a lesser extent.
Lets say I become unemployed as an expat. I lose my visa therefore I have to leave the country I have this made country my home. This becomes even more difficult if I had a family.
If you want to go back even further then nearly the whole population of Singapore should return back to the "Homeland"! Just incase you canīt work that out, it is China...
I assume you are of dark origin... No actualy lets get rid of most Americans, lets send all African, European, Chineese...etc back to where they come from!!!
The main point I am trying to stress, is that expat privages are there to compensate for the lower lifestyle security.
Expats bring a lot of experience to the airline.
Donīt mind the spelling Iīm dyslexstickjfh
Wash your dirty mouth out with soap!
I hope you donīt have a pilot licence or just taking the piss!!
I reckon I have a couple of legs to stand in this debate. Asia has been my home for the whole of my life, and quite frankly I am not leaving.
First problem is I cannot get a national citizenship of a country like HKG or SIN. The support from the local governments is to a lesser extent.
Lets say I become unemployed as an expat. I lose my visa therefore I have to leave the country I have this made country my home. This becomes even more difficult if I had a family.
If you want to go back even further then nearly the whole population of Singapore should return back to the "Homeland"! Just incase you canīt work that out, it is China...
I assume you are of dark origin... No actualy lets get rid of most Americans, lets send all African, European, Chineese...etc back to where they come from!!!
The main point I am trying to stress, is that expat privages are there to compensate for the lower lifestyle security.
Expats bring a lot of experience to the airline.
Donīt mind the spelling Iīm dyslexstickjfh
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Dear Friends
People like WILCO77 are responsible to scr*w up the fate of SIA and the ALPAS.
I hope when will these types of "frogs in the well" will grow up. I always wonder that these people are flying around the whole world but still remains so narrow minded. Must be having a very good resistance to learning and improving "lah"
People like WILCO77 are responsible to scr*w up the fate of SIA and the ALPAS.
I hope when will these types of "frogs in the well" will grow up. I always wonder that these people are flying around the whole world but still remains so narrow minded. Must be having a very good resistance to learning and improving "lah"
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Dixi Normus
Do you think I haven't tried? I only lived in Hong Kong for 14 years from the age of 10 days old!!!! But I have had my requests denied. I don't have a criminal record of any sort. They just said no and gave no reason!
I don't mind losing the expat perks!
I just want to work for the airline I have grown up around and live where I feel home is...
Do you think I haven't tried? I only lived in Hong Kong for 14 years from the age of 10 days old!!!! But I have had my requests denied. I don't have a criminal record of any sort. They just said no and gave no reason!
I don't mind losing the expat perks!
I just want to work for the airline I have grown up around and live where I feel home is...
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colonial
What is wrong , with the expats being asked to leave?
After all the years , after independence... still " expat's being
given the priority?
Fellas.... lucky not many Expat asian in EUROPE. yet.
Maybe then the feeling is mutual... live and let live guys
No one want to lose their jobs .... but losing jobs to retain
OBS is the wrong reason here.
If evey SQ pilot incl, OBS.... take 30% wage cut.. maybe there
is room to chat.
Pls do not mention contract... SQ never did honour contracts..
After all the years , after independence... still " expat's being
given the priority?
Fellas.... lucky not many Expat asian in EUROPE. yet.
Maybe then the feeling is mutual... live and let live guys
No one want to lose their jobs .... but losing jobs to retain
OBS is the wrong reason here.
If evey SQ pilot incl, OBS.... take 30% wage cut.. maybe there
is room to chat.
Pls do not mention contract... SQ never did honour contracts..
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Better go to court than agreeing to something that everyone
will regret by christmas.
Management has and will consider all "desperate" measures
Regardless of NPL of Wage cut agreement. So what is there to
Chat about...
Wrong island dudes...
will regret by christmas.
Management has and will consider all "desperate" measures
Regardless of NPL of Wage cut agreement. So what is there to
Chat about...
Wrong island dudes...
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A point of view I would like to stress is the problem a lot of asian carriers have.
This problem has been a large cause of a/c accidents for these carriers.
It is the fact that many asian pilots are not willing to loose face in front of their crew! The carriers have been trying desperately to quash the problem. But the fact is it still remains.
Look at such accidents as SQ in Taiwan and the infamous video of the KAL approach to Kia Tak that should have been aborted!!
Having expats or pilots of european origin can help. While expats work with asian counterparts in the flight deck, will exhibit the ability to quicky and without delay admit that a mistake has been made on his/hers part.
It is all about speading different qualities through out the carrier. A good pilot should never stop learning from others. Even if those others are less senior.
442
What do you mean expats get priority? What choice! over at the salad bar?
This problem has been a large cause of a/c accidents for these carriers.
It is the fact that many asian pilots are not willing to loose face in front of their crew! The carriers have been trying desperately to quash the problem. But the fact is it still remains.
Look at such accidents as SQ in Taiwan and the infamous video of the KAL approach to Kia Tak that should have been aborted!!
Having expats or pilots of european origin can help. While expats work with asian counterparts in the flight deck, will exhibit the ability to quicky and without delay admit that a mistake has been made on his/hers part.
It is all about speading different qualities through out the carrier. A good pilot should never stop learning from others. Even if those others are less senior.
442
What do you mean expats get priority? What choice! over at the salad bar?