Expat bashing at SIA
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Expat bashing at SIA
Its come to my attention recently, that there has been a spate of racially motivated incidents in Singapore Airlines, that are wholly inspired by local Singaporeans.
Recently, and still happening, a long standing expat captain (who is on LOCAL terms) has been the victim of a serier of hate mails, directed at him and his wife and kids. The instigators are those who for some reason, attribute some of the blame for SQ006 TPE incident to him. The history is that two of the pilots on SQ6 were never actually rostered for that trip, but went out of their way to gety onto it.The most notable was Captain Foong. Origionally, Capt XX, an expat was to do the sector, but was persueded to swop for another trip, by Capt Foong. Additionally, one of the F/O's had done a swop, as he wanted to meet up with a friend in LA. Capt XX has continued to receive hate mail in his mailbox at work, and telephone calls in the middle of the night, abusing him, his background and laying the blame for sq6 on him for swopping with Foong. Its was Foongs choice guys. Would the incident have happened if the flight had proceeded as origionally crewed? I think the SIA rostering is subetly smarter than it is perceived? How often do we get a all Singaporean "heavy" crew, that is not training? Think about it.
Just last month, an expat f/o on local terms, failed his command. This has not happened before. He was a twelve year F/O when he started. He was moved from the 747 to the A310, to do his command training. Compatable times for Singaporeans to train, are significantly less, by about 3 years. Why? Because, Singaporeans, and only Singaporeans are eligable for Lear Jet training, to increase their sector count to that approaching commant pool requirement.
So, if you are not a Singaporean, you have to be patient and build sectors the long way. The command trainee in question had done his time, and was finally selected. Singapore airlines lies to all local term expat f/os when they are interviewed, saying command time in 8-10 years. This isnt true, and is a hard pill to swollow after 12+years of false hopes.
Anyway, back to the point, our trainee, why did he fail?It certainly wasnt about his command ability. Simply, because Capt YY had remembered that 8 years previously, as an f/o, this guy had failed to show him the respect he demanded, by not running upto him in Cold storage(a supermarket chain in spore), shaking his hand, and introducing himself.The training captain had remembered this incident from years back,still bore a grudge, and took it out of this expat in his Sim command Loft. Singaporean training captains demand respect, and to not toe the line can have dire consequences.
So, the outcome is that our trainee has been relegated to A310 f/o status .The bum fleet in SIA, usually where the expats are given their first command.The Singaporeans however, go onto the B777/747-400, and although relativly incompetent, are passed by their training captain buddies.
To fail a command in SIA, is the end of your career there.There are still a few brave soles, who are still expat f/os in Singapore. Their equal seniority locals were skippers long ago. Its not a nice place to be now the local pilots are fingure pointing at the expats, for whatever reason, with its implied distane and ill will. I think we can all read the childish vitreole of some posters in this forum, towards contrary opinions to what they believe to be true.
Recently, and still happening, a long standing expat captain (who is on LOCAL terms) has been the victim of a serier of hate mails, directed at him and his wife and kids. The instigators are those who for some reason, attribute some of the blame for SQ006 TPE incident to him. The history is that two of the pilots on SQ6 were never actually rostered for that trip, but went out of their way to gety onto it.The most notable was Captain Foong. Origionally, Capt XX, an expat was to do the sector, but was persueded to swop for another trip, by Capt Foong. Additionally, one of the F/O's had done a swop, as he wanted to meet up with a friend in LA. Capt XX has continued to receive hate mail in his mailbox at work, and telephone calls in the middle of the night, abusing him, his background and laying the blame for sq6 on him for swopping with Foong. Its was Foongs choice guys. Would the incident have happened if the flight had proceeded as origionally crewed? I think the SIA rostering is subetly smarter than it is perceived? How often do we get a all Singaporean "heavy" crew, that is not training? Think about it.
Just last month, an expat f/o on local terms, failed his command. This has not happened before. He was a twelve year F/O when he started. He was moved from the 747 to the A310, to do his command training. Compatable times for Singaporeans to train, are significantly less, by about 3 years. Why? Because, Singaporeans, and only Singaporeans are eligable for Lear Jet training, to increase their sector count to that approaching commant pool requirement.
So, if you are not a Singaporean, you have to be patient and build sectors the long way. The command trainee in question had done his time, and was finally selected. Singapore airlines lies to all local term expat f/os when they are interviewed, saying command time in 8-10 years. This isnt true, and is a hard pill to swollow after 12+years of false hopes.
Anyway, back to the point, our trainee, why did he fail?It certainly wasnt about his command ability. Simply, because Capt YY had remembered that 8 years previously, as an f/o, this guy had failed to show him the respect he demanded, by not running upto him in Cold storage(a supermarket chain in spore), shaking his hand, and introducing himself.The training captain had remembered this incident from years back,still bore a grudge, and took it out of this expat in his Sim command Loft. Singaporean training captains demand respect, and to not toe the line can have dire consequences.
So, the outcome is that our trainee has been relegated to A310 f/o status .The bum fleet in SIA, usually where the expats are given their first command.The Singaporeans however, go onto the B777/747-400, and although relativly incompetent, are passed by their training captain buddies.
To fail a command in SIA, is the end of your career there.There are still a few brave soles, who are still expat f/os in Singapore. Their equal seniority locals were skippers long ago. Its not a nice place to be now the local pilots are fingure pointing at the expats, for whatever reason, with its implied distane and ill will. I think we can all read the childish vitreole of some posters in this forum, towards contrary opinions to what they believe to be true.
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Sniffer
Appreciate that English is obviously not your first language and your story may have lost something in the translation but do you really expect us to believe all this?
I was once told by an SIA captain that if you failed your command on the A310 but stayed on that fleet it meant you would get another go, your first attempt had been a 'near miss', if you went off to the B744 fleet then you would not get another go.
Perhaps somenone from SIA, (LEE?), could give us their version please, I find Sniffers story just a bit too tall.
I was once told by an SIA captain that if you failed your command on the A310 but stayed on that fleet it meant you would get another go, your first attempt had been a 'near miss', if you went off to the B744 fleet then you would not get another go.
Perhaps somenone from SIA, (LEE?), could give us their version please, I find Sniffers story just a bit too tall.
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SIA Sniffer,
Your posting has much subsistence and do not ever let anyone intimidate you for doing the right thing and telling the world.
It is my personal belief that it was the subservient climate at SIA that does NOT foster creative thinking and limits any form of useful cockpit resource management with its unsound routine demarcation that contributed to the SQ006 accident. Another accident is just waiting to happen any day now and unfortunately it will happen.
Remember, SIA is of the opinion that they can do anything they want and people will still want to fly for them. Somehow, I just do not feel that way!!!
Thank you.
Your posting has much subsistence and do not ever let anyone intimidate you for doing the right thing and telling the world.
It is my personal belief that it was the subservient climate at SIA that does NOT foster creative thinking and limits any form of useful cockpit resource management with its unsound routine demarcation that contributed to the SQ006 accident. Another accident is just waiting to happen any day now and unfortunately it will happen.
Remember, SIA is of the opinion that they can do anything they want and people will still want to fly for them. Somehow, I just do not feel that way!!!
Thank you.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Surely the expat Captain, whom you say is getting hate mail, is smart enough to realise what to do!
First stop should be the the Police.
Second, the embassy of the country of his nationality, with originals and copies to both.
First stop should be the the Police.
Second, the embassy of the country of his nationality, with originals and copies to both.
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Sniffer - You sate that a command trainee failed his command because he didn't show enough 'respect' to Capt. YY. Was this actually written on his training report? Where does that information come from - how do we know it is hard fact please?
Did you know, Sniffer, that the police/ISS in Singapore are very, very good at tracking down people who send offensive mail, by any means, especially life threats, and that the penalties are harsh and would certainly cost a pilot his job?
As a swop has to be applied for and approved several weeks in advance why would anyone want to blame the expat. captain for anything? He can't forecast the actual path of typhoons any better than the Met. office!
Did you know, Sniffer, that the police/ISS in Singapore are very, very good at tracking down people who send offensive mail, by any means, especially life threats, and that the penalties are harsh and would certainly cost a pilot his job?
As a swop has to be applied for and approved several weeks in advance why would anyone want to blame the expat. captain for anything? He can't forecast the actual path of typhoons any better than the Met. office!
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Come on guys get real, this story must be off the mark. I have never suffered from political correctness and always expressed my feelings and thoughts, but never ever received any threat, or malicious letter. I am also not aware of any expat bashing other then the normal gossip that goes around in any aviation community. Let's face it sitting up there in 12 hours of boredom creates a nice gossip enviroment. It only takes 3 minutes max to read the ST ,a few more hours for the other magazines and the rest is WAFFLE time. We all do it! And yes English is my second language and I can't get the F**** spellchecker to work, but I am sure you understand me. It is not so bad!!! Cheers!!
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As usual the posts pf sia sniffer "smells" of a hidden agenda.
The A310 command course has been the graveyard of many command trainees.It lasts for many months, with progressively harder sim sessions. On one such course 5 out of 6 locals failed, so you couldn't claim special treatment on that occasion.
If the expat involved had been a" no hoper" he would have been put back on the jumbo,whereas a few months in the r.h.s. is the perfect preparation for another go at the command course.
There are many young expats who have survived the system and are very happy as wide-body captains, at a much earlier age than their compatriots in Europe , Australia and N.Z., having spent considerably less than 12 years in the company.
I wonder how many of the "mud throwers" are expat F/O's who jumped bond with their nice shiny B744 rating and then got upset when the company pursued them through the courts.
You can argue the morality of the bond system until you are blue in the face, but the fact is that if you sign a contract, having read the fine print, you should honour that contract or be prepared to face the consequences.
In all companies that I have worked for there are people who should not be trainers, and who fail twice or three times as many candidates as normal. By the same token I haven't met many people who thought they deserved to fail a course.
The A310 command course has been the graveyard of many command trainees.It lasts for many months, with progressively harder sim sessions. On one such course 5 out of 6 locals failed, so you couldn't claim special treatment on that occasion.
If the expat involved had been a" no hoper" he would have been put back on the jumbo,whereas a few months in the r.h.s. is the perfect preparation for another go at the command course.
There are many young expats who have survived the system and are very happy as wide-body captains, at a much earlier age than their compatriots in Europe , Australia and N.Z., having spent considerably less than 12 years in the company.
I wonder how many of the "mud throwers" are expat F/O's who jumped bond with their nice shiny B744 rating and then got upset when the company pursued them through the courts.
You can argue the morality of the bond system until you are blue in the face, but the fact is that if you sign a contract, having read the fine print, you should honour that contract or be prepared to face the consequences.
In all companies that I have worked for there are people who should not be trainers, and who fail twice or three times as many candidates as normal. By the same token I haven't met many people who thought they deserved to fail a course.
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Very balanced viewpoint Ozzy, as I said before it is not so bad! See my friend Gladiotor is back on line. How are things at Alaskan? Just spent some very very good time in Anchorage. Nice light good picture taking country!! How difficult would it be to rent a floatplane without instructor? I have some time and I am willing to take the nesc. instruction but want to able to take it out on my own when released. Any takes on it??? Cheers
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I am still alive Farside. Things are going great at Alaska. Send me an e-mail ([email protected]) and we can hook up in ANC or maybe you would like to come for a visit to Seattle.
We will rent a floatplane and have some fun. Maybe you would like to get your floatplane rating in three days.
We will rent a floatplane and have some fun. Maybe you would like to get your floatplane rating in three days.
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Find the original posting hard to believe.
My second time in Asia now but never found this anywhere.
Sure, you will nevere belong to the place unless you are determined but this story is a bit hard to believe.
My second time in Asia now but never found this anywhere.
Sure, you will nevere belong to the place unless you are determined but this story is a bit hard to believe.
