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China's Current A320 4on/4off Options (feedback pls)

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China's Current A320 4on/4off Options (feedback pls)

Old 6th Nov 2019, 04:47
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China's Current A320 4on/4off Options (feedback pls)

Been looking at some work options in China and gathered some feedback during my search, any related info is appreciated as I am weighing the option to go to China in order to get a 4on/4off commute.

Here is a list of a few that I have seen might qualify as an option, and latest info I could get on them(there's not much).

- Sichuan Airlines: Latest on forum was that conditions have gone down. (minimum rest or less, long duties, days off not respected maybe outdated reference from 2016 ). Heard people are not lasting a year there recently..
- LoongAir: management not treating people well apparently..
- China Eastern: stopped hiring, heard good things on people working there, good environment and company culture. Unsure if they will hire again..
- Guilin: stopped hiring for the moment, looks like a good place to go, small airline but not hiring for the rest of the actual year apparently.
- BCA: No recent feedback from people working there, anyone there at the moment?
- Tianjin: Looks like hiring stopped momentarily but not great feedback on forums.
- Lucky Air: not good feedback on forums on company culture.
- Juneyao : Mentioned as a place to stay away from below.
- Chengdu: Read here is a better option than Sichuan

Objectively we all know China is not for everyone, cultural and management issues will always be there... just looking for a relatively decent option from what is available while knowing all China means for us...
PMs welcome

Last edited by longago9; 6th Nov 2019 at 09:59. Reason: added an airline
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 08:12
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Hi,

China feedback. Well let's see.... There must be over a thousand expats flying in China but the vast majority of them like to keep it a secret and not say anything so you're not going to get much info I'm afraid.

I arrived not so long ago to start my job and am dumbfounded by the amount of crazy, inefficient and plainly wrong practices I have witnessed already. I had low expectations but this is off the scale. None of what I've seen and experienced in the last few months was out there as information and I had been researching a long time. I now know why people don't want to write in detail (in order to warn others). They realize China is bad for their career and they don't want to be seen or heard admitting it; they know they are unlearning all the good things they've acquired to date and they know they are becoming less proficient. They don't want to make a noise internally or externally. They all simply want to serve their time quietly, take the money (lots of it) and eventually run whilst never looking back! I may soon join them in thinking like that.

The only thing I can tell you is that a 4/4 or any roster option for that matter is a meaningless concept during waiting period (for paper work), ground courses and line training. I estimate between 1/3 and 50% of us are taking almost 1 year to get released. Why that long, if they are hiring so much? Honestly, it's the biggest contradiction in aviation. Only after that the commuting starts and only after that are you even officially allowed to leave. Contracts do not state maximum times for line training by the company before commuting starts, it's all open ended and completely in their favor. It sounds completely crazy but if you opted for 4/4 then during the training phase, you're going to be paid less than the guy on a 6/2 for anything up to a year (depending on the airline) for doing the same amount of "work" or in a lot of our cases SFA!
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 18:30
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Originally Posted by longago9 View Post
Been looking at some work options in China and gathered some feedback during my search, any related info is appreciated as I am weighing the option to go to China in order to get a 4on/4off commute.

Here is a list of a few that I have seen might qualify as an option, and latest info I could get on them(there's not much).

- Sichuan Airlines: Latest on forum was that conditions have gone down. (minimum rest or less, long duties, days off not respected maybe outdated reference from 2016 ). Heard people are not lasting a year there recently..
- LoongAir: management not treating people well apparently..
- China Eastern: stopped hiring, heard good things on people working there, good environment and company culture. Unsure if they will hire again..
- Guilin: stopped hiring for the moment, looks like a good place to go, small airline but not hiring for the rest of the actual year apparently.
- BCA: No recent feedback from people working there, anyone there at the moment?
- Tianjin: Looks like hiring stopped momentarily but not great feedback on forums.
- Lucky Air: not good feedback on forums on company culture.
- Juneyao : Mentioned as a place to stay away from below.
- Chengdu: Read here is a better option than Sichuan

Objectively we all know China is not for everyone, cultural and management issues will always be there... just looking for a relatively decent option from what is available while knowing all China means for us...
PMs welcome

You know what’s funny about this very accurate post......

You listed 9 airlines and not 1 does it say ‘nice pleasant place to work’ or anything similar....

The best that gets said is ‘ read here is a better option than Sichuan’ for Chengdu Airlines.

Your post is incredibly accurate but doesn’t that just sum up China in 1 post.
9 airlines and not 1 pleasant place to work that gets recommended......😂😂

Last edited by mach85; 9th Nov 2019 at 08:50.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 16:56
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Because it's true, they're all the same.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 22:23
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Originally Posted by safelife View Post
Because it's true, they're all the same.
​​​​​
So simply stay away.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 19:27
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Originally Posted by longago9 View Post
- BCA: No recent feedback from people working there, anyone there at the moment?
Under severe pressure from the CAAC, the CAAC ravaged their foreign crews in revenge/retaliation/retribution/childish hissy fit over unrelated mishaps of others. The are severely understaffed as a direct result.

They are severely short of operating cash as the locals are far behind in receiving their pay.

As for a 4/4 roster, expect a "force majeure" situation where you simply may not be able to get them to give the days off despite the fact it is what you signed your name on. They won't discuss the situation except as a last option to try to get you to keep flying, they will only squeeze as hard as they can starting with no replies to your communications as they pile flights into your roster over top of your supposed contracted time off. The people making the decisions will wall themselves off from you so you will be unable to call them out directly for the violation of your T&C's.

The group generally agrees it used to be the best place in China to be, now it is my consensus it is about the worst.

That all said, I will say that the crews are a pleasure to work with.
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 19:26
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Hi
Chengdu Airlines stopped hiring at the moment also...
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Old 7th Dec 2019, 02:23
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I think pretty much every airline in China has stopped hiring. Lots of people losing their jobs right now.
It is definitely not a good time to come to China. Wait a year or more and see how things settle down.
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Old 7th Dec 2019, 11:49
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Originally Posted by fuelsurvey View Post
I think pretty much every airline in China has stopped hiring. Lots of people losing their jobs right now.
It is definitely not a good time to come to China. Wait a year or more and see how things settle down.
I think there is never a good time to come to China unless $$$ is all you cared and willing to take whatever BS they shove up your ass. ( a highly paid prostitute as they said )
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Old 7th Dec 2019, 13:28
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It's all hearsay.

The era of everyone across the country booming 20% each year seems to be over. Anything in the HNA Group is in the state of upside-down standstill. Finding out which airline is in the HNA Group is part of the game.

It's worth clarifying to one's self well and clear what the personal motivations behind really are. If you have a job that needs to be changed, and China comes on top of the options list being the best-suited choice with a margin, good. That angle will help enormously. And then it matters not much which airline, it's a lot of different shape - same taste affair.

If you have a job and just fancy going there for a better overall package [workhours / (time home * money)], chances of happy success are statistically less. The psycho-social demands are seriously tough. Resentment and displeasure are easy to settle in case you had some equivalent choices.

On a commuting roster, the location might be important. You want a direct flight between your base and home country or at least (easy to reach) rail-link from the Chinese airport of arrival to the operating base. Guess 2 hours in a car'd be fine too, worth about 80 USD one-way.
BJS has all the connections and reasonable prices. Shanghai is linked to the world neatly for twice the cash however. The rest is hit and miss, devils in the details everywhere.

I'd say you want a large base, and a big name-airline. Someone who's been dealing with foreigners for as long as possible, and is not a spin-off brand. You're a highly paid asset and might be exploited as such Aim for a more constitutionalized company, even if the training will be longer and more painful perhaps. Also, you definitely want to ask about "base days protection" or similar, not to be thrown around the empire with a suitcase at hand for full months at a time.

Whoever offers 182 off / y is worth looking at. Fixed 28 d / 28 d make sense. Not sure if 3wks/3wks are advertised anywhere outside HNA Group. After breaking off, the latest WestAir leaflet only offers 6w/3w or 20:10.

Last edited by FlightDetent; 8th Dec 2019 at 06:35. Reason: WestAir update
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