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Old 27th Aug 2020, 07:38
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: GREECE
Age: 42
Posts: 465
ia1166, That is exactly what I did. I am no more at VNA. Whats the point of being loyal to VNA when they treat us like expendable tampons.

I used to be very proud working for the national airline of Vietnam but the Coronavirus really showed me their true faces.
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 09:34
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Jimmy The Big Greek View Post
ia1166, That is exactly what I did. I am no more at VNA. Whats the point of being loyal to VNA when they treat us like expendable tampons.

I used to be very proud working for the national airline of Vietnam but the Coronavirus really showed me their true faces.
the true face is the airline industry has been cremated. Massive financial losses.

You can either work at a reduced salary and help the airline back on its feet for your own future prospects, or you can go home and drive a taxi.

Vn has continued to pay the agreed reduced salary. It has also stated salaries will improve. The time scale for this is dependant on covid.

You make your own choices. I am going back and will see how it develops, but VN has always paid what they said they would. Time will tell where it goes, but I have no reason to not believe them.
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Old 27th Aug 2020, 13:52
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by ia1166 View Post
the true face is the airline industry has been cremated. Massive financial losses.

You can either work at a reduced salary and help the airline back on its feet for your own future prospects, or you can go home and drive a taxi.

Vn has continued to pay the agreed reduced salary. It has also stated salaries will improve. The time scale for this is dependant on covid.

You make your own choices. I am going back and will see how it develops, but VN has always paid what they said they would. Time will tell where it goes, but I have no reason to not believe them.

Good luck on believing these liars.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 02:00
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by balboa1968 View Post
Good luck on believing these liars.
They havenít lied to me in 16 years. They have always paid on time and correctly. Always honoured the contract up to this point.

Anything after Covid is done to try to survive and I am hoping they do so. Whatever they have to do. As far as I am aware they are paying the reduced salary ok, and everyone in Vietnam was given the option of taking it or not. Those who donít were told that it wonít affect them in the future. Sounds fair to me.

Iíve been home for 6 months now, am not owed any back salary for March, and will be returning soonest. Had a great 6 months off with my Family.

Kindly elaborate when VN have cheated or lied to you.

Otherwise youíre fake news old boy.

Contract pilot... youíre only as good as your last paycheck, and always have a years salary on hand.

As I say.. WHEN HAVE THEY LIED TO YOU?
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 18:29
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
I was supposed to do a 5 years contract , which was finished about 3 years in 2017 ( A330 fleet ).

The viet is a liar by nature, never forgot it.

Last edited by balboa1968; 28th Aug 2020 at 19:21.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 20:48
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Here
Posts: 943
Yeah your credibility is instantly lost when you say things such as the viets never lie... just LOL... thanks for providing us with a good joke though.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 20:56
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by balboa1968 View Post
I was supposed to do a 5 years contract , which was finished about 3 years in 2017 ( A330 fleet ).

The viet is a liar by nature, never forgot it.
The a330s were finished when the 350 arrived. Plenty of option to convert to the 350. If you didn’t take them up on it then you wouldn’t have had a job.

5 year contract with termination option for both parties if you ever read it properly. I am sure you were treated in accordance with your contract.

Or are you suggesting you should have been paid for 2 years with no plane to fly????

Watching the wind down of the 330 was like watching paint dry. You had plenty of warning.

To be honest you are accusing them of lying, when in fact you were treated as per your contract that you signed as having read and understood. If you didn’t take up the A350 offer, or failed the course, then you would have been given 2 months termination.

If this is your grounds for an accusation of lying, its a joke.

Last edited by ia1166; 28th Aug 2020 at 22:48.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 20:59
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by BAe 146-100 View Post
Yeah your credibility is instantly lost when you say things such as the viets never lie... just LOL... thanks for providing us with a good joke though.
I never said Viets donít lie. And thats a bit racist anyway because everyone lies. Just look around your own country pal.

What I said was VN has never lied to me. The contract has been followed, salary correct and on time. Always.

You guys are being a bit high and mighty for contract pilots.
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Old 29th Aug 2020, 08:07
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 64
As a VNA pilot an "offer" to progress from a 321 to a 350 (or 330 to 350) means you have to pay for your own typerating and bribe the examiner.
About $70.000 alltogether I believe.
Hardly an offer I'd say...
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 10:47
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by ia1166 View Post
The a330s were finished when the 350 arrived. Plenty of option to convert to the 350. If you didnít take them up on it then you wouldnít have had a job.

5 year contract with termination option for both parties if you ever read it properly. I am sure you were treated in accordance with your contract.

Or are you suggesting you should have been paid for 2 years with no plane to fly????

Watching the wind down of the 330 was like watching paint dry. You had plenty of warning.

To be honest you are accusing them of lying, when in fact you were treated as per your contract that you signed as having read and understood. If you didnít take up the A350 offer, or failed the course, then you would have been given 2 months termination.

If this is your grounds for an accusation of lying, its a joke.

They lie to me right at the interview, about my futur in VNA.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 10:47
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by Captain Kaboom View Post
As a VNA pilot an "offer" to progress from a 321 to a 350 (or 330 to 350) means you have to pay for your own typerating and bribe the examiner.
About $70.000 alltogether I believe.
Hardly an offer I'd say...
Even If you had the A350 on your licence.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 01:48
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,678
ia1166 mate, with the greatest of respect, you weren't part of the A330 debacle, and I feel like you're trying to defend the indefensible a little bit here

Some of us were senior FOs on A330 for close to a decade, while guys on A321 were typically going right to left within 3 or 4 years.

Most of us turned down job offers at other companies over the years, because we were consistently given the message by management pilots that we would be up for command soon, just wait a little bit more, etc etc. Naive or not, some of us made career decisions on the basis of that.

So when the A350 came, that rug was pulled from under us overnight, and we now got told no commands were available, and we had the choice of being terminated, or paying huge sums of money to keep our job on something that should be a common type rating with A330 anyway. AND we had to commit to another 5 years minimum in the right seat, and get kicked to the back of the command queue

And they gave us the phone call on christmas eve, I know it's a small thing and shouldn't matter but that really p!ssed me off, my wife was in tears all christmas day

They actually seemed to be very surprised when most of us chose resignation. Wizzair came to town and was doing walk in interviews in HCM and Hanoi with the offer of instant commands, QR also did a road show, JPA offered us all interviews etc. By the time they realized their bluff had backfired and they gave command courses to the last 2 guys, everyone else had walked out the door. Everyone knew they needed 321 skips, it was a ridiculous situation.

Yes I know it's the contract world, and it's dog eat dog, and harden up, and expect nothing other than what's written in my contract etc etc. It's easy to say when you're already a very senior captain and you're in a secure position, and you don't have young kids and a family to feed, and you don't have to choose between getting financially wiped out through unemployment, or getting financially wiped out by accepting such a bad deal. I don't blame Balboa or anyone else for feeling angry about that situation. It certainly wasn't sold to us like that by the agencies when we joined.

Having said all that, it's totally racist and unacceptable to say things against "all Viets". The whole thing was essentially the scheme of one guy, and I am very grateful to the local management pilots who reportedly stood up for us in the board meeting and saved some of our jobs in the end.

I like living in VN, I like the people, I like a lot of things about the airline and the operation, I want to finish my career here. All I wanted at that time was what everyone on other fleets was getting, reasonable time to command and no constantly moving goalposts
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 05:30
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 586
Originally Posted by Luke SkyToddler View Post
ia1166 mate, with the greatest of respect, you weren't part of the A330 debacle, and I feel like you're trying to defend the indefensible a little bit here

Some of us were senior FOs on A330 for close to a decade, while guys on A321 were typically going right to left within 3 or 4 years.

Most of us turned down job offers at other companies over the years, because we were consistently given the message by management pilots that we would be up for command soon, just wait a little bit more, etc etc. Naive or not, some of us made career decisions on the basis of that.

So when the A350 came, that rug was pulled from under us overnight, and we now got told no commands were available, and we had the choice of being terminated, or paying huge sums of money to keep our job on something that should be a common type rating with A330 anyway. AND we had to commit to another 5 years minimum in the right seat, and get kicked to the back of the command queue

And they gave us the phone call on christmas eve, I know it's a small thing and shouldn't matter but that really p!ssed me off, my wife was in tears all christmas day

They actually seemed to be very surprised when most of us chose resignation. Wizzair came to town and was doing walk in interviews in HCM and Hanoi with the offer of instant commands, QR also did a road show, JPA offered us all interviews etc. By the time they realized their bluff had backfired and they gave command courses to the last 2 guys, everyone else had walked out the door. Everyone knew they needed 321 skips, it was a ridiculous situation.

Yes I know it's the contract world, and it's dog eat dog, and harden up, and expect nothing other than what's written in my contract etc etc. It's easy to say when you're already a very senior captain and you're in a secure position, and you don't have young kids and a family to feed, and you don't have to choose between getting financially wiped out through unemployment, or getting financially wiped out by accepting such a bad deal. I don't blame Balboa or anyone else for feeling angry about that situation. It certainly wasn't sold to us like that by the agencies when we joined.

Having said all that, it's totally racist and unacceptable to say things against "all Viets". The whole thing was essentially the scheme of one guy, and I am very grateful to the local management pilots who reportedly stood up for us in the board meeting and saved some of our jobs in the end.

I like living in VN, I like the people, I like a lot of things about the airline and the operation, I want to finish my career here. All I wanted at that time was what everyone on other fleets was getting, reasonable time to command and no constantly moving goalposts
Excellent post, but how is this Bamboo?
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 21:02
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Luke SkyToddler View Post
ia1166 mate, with the greatest of respect, you weren't part of the A330 debacle, and I feel like you're trying to defend the indefensible a little bit here

Some of us were senior FOs on A330 for close to a decade, while guys on A321 were typically going right to left within 3 or 4 years.

Most of us turned down job offers at other companies over the years, because we were consistently given the message by management pilots that we would be up for command soon, just wait a little bit more, etc etc. Naive or not, some of us made career decisions on the basis of that.

So when the A350 came, that rug was pulled from under us overnight, and we now got told no commands were available, and we had the choice of being terminated, or paying huge sums of money to keep our job on something that should be a common type rating with A330 anyway. AND we had to commit to another 5 years minimum in the right seat, and get kicked to the back of the command queue

And they gave us the phone call on christmas eve, I know it's a small thing and shouldn't matter but that really p!ssed me off, my wife was in tears all christmas day

They actually seemed to be very surprised when most of us chose resignation. Wizzair came to town and was doing walk in interviews in HCM and Hanoi with the offer of instant commands, QR also did a road show, JPA offered us all interviews etc. By the time they realized their bluff had backfired and they gave command courses to the last 2 guys, everyone else had walked out the door. Everyone knew they needed 321 skips, it was a ridiculous situation.

Yes I know it's the contract world, and it's dog eat dog, and harden up, and expect nothing other than what's written in my contract etc etc. It's easy to say when you're already a very senior captain and you're in a secure position, and you don't have young kids and a family to feed, and you don't have to choose between getting financially wiped out through unemployment, or getting financially wiped out by accepting such a bad deal. I don't blame Balboa or anyone else for feeling angry about that situation. It certainly wasn't sold to us like that by the agencies when we joined.

Having said all that, it's totally racist and unacceptable to say things against "all Viets". The whole thing was essentially the scheme of one guy, and I am very grateful to the local management pilots who reportedly stood up for us in the board meeting and saved some of our jobs in the end.

I like living in VN, I like the people, I like a lot of things about the airline and the operation, I want to finish my career here. All I wanted at that time was what everyone on other fleets was getting, reasonable time to command and no constantly moving goalposts
As I said, VN has always treated me well, followed the contract and never lied to me. All you guys are bashing them unfairly in my opinion.


as I recall you were offered command on the A320 numerous times but turned it down. If not maybe you should have been pushing for it. Life was very easy on the A330 as an FO. You were also offered RHS A350 numerous times but kept turning it down I heard. Maybe I am wrong.

So you ran out the A330 to the end and then got sacked. After some negotiating you secured a Command on the 320, which you paid for.

And you say you called their bluff? Mate if you had taken command as soon as possible you could be on the A350 LHS now?

In any event job security should be any contract pilots number one priority.

Paying for it is the contract world. I haven’t paid for anything but if I needed to to make my job more secure I would have to.

Staying RHS in a cushy long haul seat and refusing to move to short haul command works fine in Qanats on ANZ os BA, but as a contract pilot it doesn’t work so well to be on a dying fleet. Or to stay RHS too long.

Mate i would love to go to the 787 or at a push the 350. I’ve been on contracts since 2000. The most secure job is LHS A320. If its offered, take it a soon as you can. And then get into training if you can. Not wanting to pay won’t get you anywhere. The next guy on the list will take it instead.

As I said before. You need to read the contract carefully and keep aware of what is happening around you.

You work for a contract company.

Last edited by ia1166; 1st Sep 2020 at 22:06. Reason: Changes
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 22:13
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 23
And lets face facts.

The rug that was pulled out from underneath you took 2 years.

Hardly a surprise.

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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 21:37
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by ia1166 View Post
And lets face facts.

The rug that was pulled out from underneath you took 2 years.

Hardly a surprise.
Blablabla blablabla .
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 06:47
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ex-Brisvegas
Posts: 217
Bamboo website says hiring Ejet drivers. But I thought their Ejets were wet leased from Great Dane. What's the story here?
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