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Best and Worst Airline in China

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Best and Worst Airline in China

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Old 21st Jun 2018, 02:19
  #41 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Australia
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Well

All the people we used to think that if "our" manager works also for a Chinesse Airline, seems to be good for us, but you may notice that the have some other "problems"

Lets see, Why a Broker manager, pilot on a Chinesse Airline is GOING to push to any airline, if the GET money from that Airline?

They have too many interest in the company, they are NOT going to push any company, because the GET money from that company....

Then... is not going to help you
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Old 21st Jun 2018, 08:51
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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I'm trying to get in, via Smile. I must say that they have NEVER pushed me in the direction of any particular airline. They've listened to what I'm looking for, and suggested the relevant airlines. Then I've chose one, and they seem extremely supportive. And no, I'm not paid to say this...
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Old 21st Jun 2018, 10:42
  #43 (permalink)  
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You didn't get me.

I mean. Why a Broker who is a pilot a "the" company is going to PUSH the company; in order to get better rosters; salaries increases; or any kind of improvement if HE/THEY get money from "the" company?

I am not saying that the will push you to choose a company you dont want.

I mean. How can someone try to improve anything if he is involved within the company?
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Old 22nd Jun 2018, 04:32
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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BCA now one of the worst

BCA initially had a good reputation but that has changed radically in the past few years. The facts are pilots are leaving in droves, rumour is they have 50 resignations in at the moment both chinese and foreign pilots. At least 10 foreign pilots have left in the past year alone.

BCA is not the highest payer anymore and there will be no pay increases for the foreseeable future due to HNA group teetering on bankruptcy.
The working environment there is toxic. There is a well established punishment and blame culture. $3000 fines are handed out like candy.
Training and checking is a nightmare. Zero english spoken from chinese instructors and checkers. Failures are common and numerous foreign pilots have been victims of failure and subsequent demotion to FO for extended periods.

Do you like to be quizzed by some office guy with a clipboard without notice when you report for duty?? If so, then BCA is the place for you..

The schedule comes out on sat night/sunday morning for MONDAY! there is no ability to request a specific day off. You will have zero control over your life during your time in China. IF your contractual leave is approved (its always a struggle) you will be hammered to get the 80hrs minimum in the 2 or 3 weeks of the month available to work. Vacation must be split over 2 consecutive months so they can get the flight hours out of you. Expect to work max duty and min rest.
Your actual block time will be reduced by the company by anything up to 20mins per day. They claim this is legal, but its just a brazen attempt to increase your work time and reduce your claim for overtime payments.

Recently all pilots instructed to answer a 450 question psychological exam to be done in home time. No explanation of who will assess you or what will be done with the results

Extended cockpit voice recorders have been fitted to half the fleet so far to monitor SOP compliance. Records will be reviewed and 2 "occurrences" will earn you a special line check.

Anybody thinking BCA is a good place to be then do yourself a favour and talk to some of the experience pilots who are there and counting the days until they can get out.
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Old 22nd Jun 2018, 08:22
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Slarberg View Post
I mean. How can someone try to improve anything if he is involved within the company?
This is an important point.

There is a definite conflict of interest if the agency has people involved in running the airline. Whilst, on the one hand it may seem to be suitable for trouble shooting any issues or problems, at the end of the day the agency people have a clear conflict of interest if there are any disputes with the airline.

I know for a fact that at Xiamen some current pilots have established an agency and are recruiting expats esp from a DXB LCC. Again, whilst that has apparent advantages it also has major disadvantages and patent conflicts of interest - are they really going to fight for you in a dispute or ensure contractual compliance when it may jeopardize their own position?

One should be close to an airline but not too close when it is really needed. A working relationship at arms length is always important to ensure a degree of independence and objectivity.
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Old 22nd Jun 2018, 10:06
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by YFloyd View Post
This is an important point.
whilst that has apparent advantages it also has major disadvantages and patent conflicts of interest - are they really going to fight for you in a dispute or ensure contractual compliance when it may jeopardize their own position?

One should be close to an airline but not too close when it is really needed. A working relationship at arms length is always important to ensure a degree of independence and objectivity.
Bang on. Great point. I will give kudos to Smile. They have been great. They have never pushed me towards any airline. The most important question they asked was ďwhere do you want to live in China, and secondly what do you want to fly.Ē They even steered me away from applying to other airlines that were failing a lot of guys at a certain time etc etc.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 03:23
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Wickusvandermerwe


BCA REALLY SUCKS !!!!
i'm a prisoner of the company right now.
dont even consider to apply to BCA if you want to have a normal life.
Better options are out there, and even with more money and less hours.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 05:01
  #48 (permalink)  
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No Men

Spring Airlines is the really shit. Belive me...

Hna grouo at least you have good hotels.. We spend more than 22 days outside base....

Company sucks
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 10:52
  #49 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by estigma81 View Post
BCA REALLY SUCKS !!!!
i'm a prisoner of the company right now. dont even consider to apply to BCA if you want to have a normal life.
Better options are out there, and even with more money and less hours.
The contract arrangements seem to be very similar. What was the trap you fell into?

We spend more than 22 days outside base ....
What type of contract you have, 6+2?

I wish you both guys well.
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Old 27th Jun 2018, 12:24
  #50 (permalink)  
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What rotation I have doesn't really matter.

For people on the 4/4; 5/4; 6/3 or 6/2; we are outside our base 85% or the month.

People we are paying 30 days Hotel to stay in Shanghai only 6 FULL days; people with family they spend 22/23 nights also out; they see their family 6 days a month....

It really sucks; you are stuck on a Chinesse Hotel 1 star with horrible foosd...
The hotels are really shit in China. The roster in that company is crappy. People is leaving and will continue leaving...
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Old 1st Jul 2018, 16:49
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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I wouldn't mind that if they would take me ;-)
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Old 22nd Jul 2018, 00:11
  #52 (permalink)  
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We got an email more than 1 month ago from one of the lovely Bosses...

What changed in one month?

NOTHING°°°

Same shit.
Same crappy roster
No increased salary
No reduced layovers
No reduced split dutys.
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 05:45
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Expat Pilots China Southern

Hey guys,

Was thinking of applying to be a commuter pilot at China Southern. Out of curiosity does anyone know how many pilots CSA has and what % are on the commuting contract. I assume all on the commuting contract are expats right?
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Old 11th Oct 2018, 15:04
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by vikasrajgopal View Post
Hey guys,

Was thinking of applying to be a commuter pilot at China Southern. Out of curiosity does anyone know how many pilots CSA has and what % are on the commuting contract. I assume all on the commuting contract are expats right?
Pay attention guys.
There is no intention whatsoever to join CSA and there is an ulterior motive for wanting this information. Be careful.

Just look at the questions asked and the way they are asked.
FOR SURE not a pilot. Journalist perhaps.

Cheers,
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Old 14th Oct 2018, 12:13
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Well said !

Originally Posted by TPE Flyer View Post
China Airlines by far. For all the horror stories you hear about China, at least you are paid well.
What used to be a great job, has fast turned into one of the worst around.
Conditions eroded, min rest turn arounds nearly everywhere, staff travel expensive (full fare cheaper on some routes).
Failure rate amongst Ex Pats over 50% on some fleets.
Oh and non ICAO state, so your licence is not recognised anywhere else in the world.
Yeah right now all of China in turmoil stay away I canít say this enough . 50% failure rate who are you kidding Iíve seem more like 75 % on this last caac imposed sim check !

For those not in the know the caac has imposed a extra sim on all foreign pilots ! Short notice and if you call in sick or go home on your normal roster kiss your caac lic away ! Itís a stark reminder to all foreign pilots your not working in a country that gives much credance to human rights !

I keep reading guys from here , saying where I am itís not that bad blah blah blah .In the same breath when you go out with them they say oh well that guy yeah he had issues ! Yeah he failed a sim his fault 3 years later when itís their turn to fail a sim piss of one chinese guy itís a different story ! Well Iíve been here 7 years somehow survived. Keep my head low fly home mostly once a month ! Once or twice a year stay a few extra week ! Itís money and the worst job in aviation

As far as the best or worst job yeah tianjin racks up there as worst Iíd stay away from Hna group the caac hates them right now ! Google all the bent airplane in China you will know why ! Shanghai Beijing both expensive! The smaller companies air Guilin ect pay a good bonus ! But like the west management changes and so do working conditions!
Cheers fellow aviators
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Old 18th Oct 2018, 02:13
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Turmoil is an understatement. You have the guy with the clipboard asking questions when you go to work, extra written tests and checkrides, extra punishments and blame, CVRs that record several days of cockpit talk for audits, 6 month medicals at 4 months, schedules and contracts made of rubber, etc.

On top of that, there is daily life in China, where parents beat up street cleaners who object to their kids laying droppings on the sidewalk.
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