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Jet Airways Pilots Refuse to Fly with Expats

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Jet Airways Pilots Refuse to Fly with Expats

Old 15th Apr 2017, 13:56
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Jet Airways Pilots Refuse to Fly with Expats

Jet Airways: Jet Indian pilots' union says will not fly with expat pilots from May 1 - Times of India

NEW DELHI: In the first revolt of its kind, the Indian pilots of Jet Airways have been asked by their union not to fly with the expat pilots in the airline from next month.
National Aviators' Guild (NAG), union of Jet's pilots, on Saturday issued a directive to its members saying they are not to fly with the expats from May 1. Referring to some alleged cases of wrong behaviour by expat pilots towards Indian pilots and passengers, NAG directive said: "The safety of our passengers and pilots is of prime importance and these kind of issues cannot be tolerated at all. The expats are also a huge drain on the company's and the nation's finances."
Jet's comments were sought for the story. Jet has about 100 expat and 860 Indian commanders for its mixed fleet of Boeing 737, 777; Airbus 330 and ATRs. In all, the airline has over 1,700 pilots (co-pilots and commanders).
Top Comment

I fully support NAG, the Union of Jet pilots. Why should we employ expats when we have enough local talent.
Maharaj Gupta

"India has no dearth of talent when it comes to aviation. There are enough and many CPL (commercial pilot licence) holders sitting idle, waiting endlessly, for years on end at times, to get a decent job. While we understand the requirement to hire expats when a new aircraft type is inducted into the company, it has been over 15 years since Jet Airways hired its first expat and we still retain a significant number," NAG letter says.
"We feel the management has had more than enough time to replace the expats with Indian national pilots. We therefore demand that all expats be released immediately. We trust the management will understand the angst of our members in this matter and join us in ensuring that we can take pride in being a nationally conscious company. Keeping the safety of our passengers and members in mind, NAG committee hereby issues a directive to all trainers not to conduct training/checking any expats effective April 16, 2017, and line pilots not to fly with expats from May 1, 2017, onwards," it added.
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Old 15th Apr 2017, 21:46
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A very realistic demand by the union. Train 100 CPL holders (many of whom have not flown for 4-5 years) onto complex aircraft in 14 days.
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 00:29
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Blatant case of racism, pure and simple.

Now what they do in their own country is their business. However when they come to our countries they are the first to pull the race card if they are "overlooked", or "singled out"
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 00:38
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Very possibly a few bad apples amongst the expats but there is an ulterior motive behind this.
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 01:22
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It is childish. What about indians expat flying in the ME, China, South Asia, ... all over the world? Will the union repatriate them also? Anyway for me it is not racism but more about frustration and pure jealousy
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 02:14
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As always the mistake being made talking about "available pilots" Vs Captains (or Commanders as is the preferred option in India).

Expats are only employed as Captains, for whatever reason the "system" has been unable to promote enough Captains internally - something that should/could have been addressed by the union over the last few years for the benefit of their members but apparently hasen't been....now there's a "problem" to be resolved in 2 weeks!

Jet have another 10 737's arriving this year, the 73 MAX starts arriving late 2018, they're removing the ATR over the next 3 years or so, the training system is having trouble coping with all that's going on as is.

So into this magically the union wants 100 local upgrades along with 100 local inductions whilst ignoring the commercial risk - that has to be accepted and managed by someone - of new inexperienced Captains flying with new inexperienced First Officers....and dearly hoping SOP's can hold it all together.

Be interesting to see where this all goes.

Cheers.
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 02:57
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If it follows previous disputes in India then money will resolve it.

Additionally, right now the airline enjoys a good reputation with insurers and enjoys appropriate rates, but should they start to replace experienced captains with much less experienced captains, flying with absolutely minimal experienced first officers then the insurance rates may go up.
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 05:41
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This is India for you , two MPs have recently been let off the hook for unruly behaviour on an airplane , one even beat up a flight attendant and came on the media saying he'll do it again !
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Old 18th Apr 2017, 03:08
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The Times of India prints all the news that unfit to print. I remember how many times the infants of SWIP tried to pulled this crap and ban expats captains. Then, I think it was in 2011 or 2012 the little buggers wanted expats to support their effort by initiating a slowdown, because they've not had a raise in some time. The chai just about came from my nose when they pleaded their case after a recent effort to have us thrown out of India. As this little pin head told me it would help cement relations amongst the locals and the expats. I told the lad to enjoy his strike, and will be very happy to cover his trips for which he was going to stike.

On a more serious note, the DGCA Board of Investigation essentially exonerated the crew who shot a zillion approaches in Cochine and TRV and barely made with enough gas to produce a fart. They board stated that the crew was not adequately trained for low fuel emergencies such as this case. GMAFB.

Here's a question to the chaps at SWIP. Whose going to cover your trips when all of you you call in scared, er I mean sick during the upcoming monsoon season?
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Old 26th Apr 2017, 06:12
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@captjns

I thought he was doing practice Go-Arounds & giving real life experience to the FO & preparing him for command.

It was all within the SOP & GOM..
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Old 26th Apr 2017, 12:46
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Referring to some alleged cases of wrong behaviour by expat pilots towards Indian pilots and passengers, NAG directive said: "The safety of our passengers and pilots is of prime importance and these kind of issues cannot be tolerated at all. The expats are also a huge drain on the company's and the nation's finances."
It's interesting that something alleged in one sentence can become a fact by the next sentence as a behavior that cannot be tolerated. The huge drain on the company's and nation's finances would probably not be mentioned if suddenly the local pilot's were on the same salaries. Has anyone in the union given any thought to the ratio of Indian nationals on a typical outbound Jetairways flight going to a foreign country to work to the number of expats on the inbound flights coming to work in India? Compare the amount of remittance sent from abroad into India to what is earned in India by expats and taken home. Don't let yourselves be fooled by a Trump type solution.
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Old 26th Apr 2017, 16:39
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Originally Posted by Dan_Brown View Post
Blatant case of racism, pure and simple.

Now what they do in their own country is their business. However when they come to our countries they are the first to pull the race card if they are "overlooked", or "singled out"
Here comes the race card...

Harbhajan Singh slams Jet Airways pilot for racially abusing passenger

CRICKET Updated: Apr 26, 2017 20:03 IST
HT Correspondent
Hindustan Times, New Delhi

Harbhajan Singh wants action taken against a Jet Airways pilot who racially and physically abused ‘a lady and a physically challenged man’. Jet Airways have apologised and promised to investigateHarbhajan Singh, not a stranger to racial slurs, tweeted out on Wednesday, reacting strongly to an alleged racist attack on a passenger by a Jet Airways pilot. The former Indian off-spinner has even urged Prime Minister Narendra Modi to intervene.

Harbhajan Singh, who is playing for the Mumbai Indians in the ongoing Indian Premier League and claimed his 200th T20 wicket against Rising Pune Supergiant on Monday, blamed a Jet Airways pilot, Bernd Hoesslin, “of racial and physical attack towards a lady and a physically challenged man”.

Jet Airways have promised to investigate the unsavoury episode.

“So called this Bernd Hoesslin a pilot with @jetairways called my fellow indian(u bloody indian get out of my flight)while he is earning here (Sic),” tweeted Harbhajan Singh from his official handle, @harbhajan_singh.

“Not only was he racist but physically assaulted a lady and abused a physically challenged man..absolutely disgraceful &shame on @jetairways (Sic),” tweeted Harbhajan, who went on to appeal to Prime Minister Narendra Modi to intervene and make sure action is taken against the pilot.

Harbhajan Turbanator ✔ @harbhajan_singh

So called this Bernd Hoesslin a pilot with @jetairways called my fellow indian(u bloody indian get out of my flight)while he is earning here

3:34 AM - 26 Apr 2017
1,544 1,544 Retweets 2,955 2,955 likes
Harbhajan followed it up with tweets demanding action against the pilot, Bernd Hoesslin.

Harbhajan Turbanator ✔ @harbhajan_singh

Not only was he racist but physically assaulted a lady and abused a physically challenged man..absolutely disgraceful &shame on @jetairways

3:38 AM - 26 Apr 2017
892 892 Retweets 2,032 2,032 likes
Harbhajan Turbanator ✔ @harbhajan_singh

Strict action must b taken &such things should not be allowed or tolerated in r country.. #proudtobeindian let's get together and sort this

3:40 AM - 26 Apr 2017
898 898 Retweets 2,867 2,867 likes
Harbhajan Singh was reacting to the incident involving Punjabi and Bollywood music director Jatinder Shah and Bollywood marketing professional Pooja Singh Gujral during the flight from Chandigarh to Mumbai on April 3.

Shah uses a wheelchair that was checked in but the chair never reached him on arrival. The flight was also delayed due to some internal issues of the airlines, wrote Gujral, narrating the incident via a Facebook post.

Shah was made to wait in the aeroplane and Pooja decided to remain with him. The pilot of the flight , Bernd Hoesslin , then stormed out of the cockpit and started hurling abuses at Shah and Pooja. Pooja wrote on her FB post that the pilot shouted “You Bloody Indian”, and mocked Shah for his disability while she was trying to “explain the situation”.

A complaint was lodged on April 4 at the Sahar International Airport police station. Gujral also mentioned in one of the comments on her FB post that on 5th April she filed a non cognisable complaint because police refused to file an FIR.

Jet Airways statement

Jet Airways said in a statement that corrective action will be taken as per the company policy, and after due investigation.

“Jet Airways has zero tolerance towards any action of its employees that contravenes local or international laws prevalent in the countries of its operations,” read the statement. “Additionally, we have a strict employee code of conduct, which is based on the values and ethos of the airline. This is clearly mentioned in the prescribed service conditions for employees and is adequately emphasized during internal training sessions. All airline employees/staff members are required to comply with company’s rules and regulations and with the customs and security laws of the countries that Jet Airways’ flies to.

“As regards the said incident, Jet Airways has noted guest feedback with concern and regrets the incident. The airline has as per policy initiated a full-fledged investigations, based on specific inputs from guests, concerned departments and agencies.”
Harbhajan Singh slams Jet Airways pilot for racially abusing passenger | cricket | Hindustan Times
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Old 26th Apr 2017, 17:00
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For reference, here is the original Facebook post about the alleged racial incident involving the presumably expat Jet Airways captain:

Pooja Singh Gujral

April 5 Mumbai, India

Extremely shocking n upsetting incident with Jet airways ! Travelled chandigarh-mumbai over the weekend. On arrival a close friend's customised wheel chair that was checked in as per jet regulations did not reach him. The flight was already delayed because of the airlines internal issues. He was made to wait and i decided to wait along with him! Meanwhile the captain of the aircraft 'Bernd Hoesslin' came and started behaving nasty and screaming for checking in his personal wheelchair. I intervened and told him that it is allowed and various times this wheelchair was checked in earlier aswell! Plus #jetairways had checked it in at chandigarh so it was allowed! He got really mad at me and started screaming and pushed my hand saying 'GET OUT' ! I moved him aside and warned him not to touch me ! He said 'u bloody indian' and thats when i gave him hell. My friend who is specially challenged intervened to help but he was nasty and rude to him too. I told him to call the security but the staff did not ! Although then the crew intervened and apologised and said captain pls stop but this horrible person just did not ! I finally helped my friend and put him on the wheelchair as he was because of this situation very embarrassed and not felling well. I have complained to the guest relations head and awaiting a reply ! I DO DEMAND AN ACTION AGAINST THIS CAPTAIN ! Racism in my own country is bad but discrimination against the physically challenged is so inhumane, barbaric and atrocious. An extremely appalling, sad and grievous experience! Plz share the post
https://www.facebook.com/pooja.s.guj...55866018843368

It appears from news reports that the incident that triggered the ban on flying with expats was an assault on a senior trainer by an expat captain in Bengaluru.
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Old 14th May 2017, 12:17
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Any update, what is the situation now??
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Old 14th May 2017, 23:18
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Kinda' amusing to read this stuff. A few observations:

1) On one hand, NAG has a point, but they shouldn't make it about Indian vs the rest of the world in terms of nationality. That is xenophobic and racist. Indians dominate in all sorts of fields across the globe, medicine, engineering, aviation, and of course IT. Can you imagine the blow-back to their nation if the those industries in the rest of the world demanded they get fired just because their "Indian"? GMAB. Just like NAG expects their contract to be honored, so too must Jet honor the remainder of the expat contract. Else what's the point of having a contract in the first place? Jet still needs expat pilots. Probably always will because so many leave to work for airlines abroad. NAG should make it a requirement for any expat joiner to first go through them. IOW, Jet interviews and hires the pilot but before training commences, an interview must be passed with NAG and said pilot is required to become a NAG member as well, which means paying NAG dues too.

2) I lived in India for 5 years, am married to an Indian, have an extended Indian family and of course half-Indian kids. So I am uniquely qualified to say this (from experience): Indians can be some of the racist people... TO OTHER INDIANS!!! Ok, let's remove the word racist and call it discriminatory. They are quite often always squabbling among each other, probably due to being tightly packed into only 6 main cities there. Quite often in one of these squabbles the caste or "race" card (in their terms meaning religion-based race ex hindu, muslim, etc) card gets thrown as the default. It's sort of pathetic. Even they will tell you that they are this way. Many internal problems over there, like the rape situation, that gets buried under the rug but comes out in arguments at various stages in life, say a fight between neighbors, etc. But it goes beyond that. With 700-800 million in the poor category. Most Indians are exploited by their employers, from the domestic servant to the IT worker to, yes, the airline pilot. Even they are treated like crap by their companies. Remember Air India getting paid almost 2 years late? Or Kingfisher tech workers killing themselves because they hadn't been paid in 2 years? They do that, btw, because they know the justice system will never come to their aid. So they are destitute and desperate. Anyway, point being of all this, Indians, namely NAG in this case, need to look within to the source and resolution for their problems. Blaming it on foreigners, or foreign pilots is the wrong way to go and can have un-intended consequences for their national pride down the road.

3) If said captain did indeed call someone a "bloody Indian", and there is proof of that, fire his ass! Send him packing. Period, plain and simple. We all know you just can't insult people like that in any country, least of all in your host country. But a fair and equitable investigation into the actual course of events is always the first step in that process. We have all been accused of something at some point in our lives. There's always two sides to every story.

4) Indian pilots. I love Indians. In fact most of my aviation buddies are Indian. Great people. But, man, some of them are absolutely autocratic operators in the cockpit and that doesn't bode well for CRM and a safe environment. When I flew there FOs loved to fly with me because I gave them landings. I always found that amusing because that shouldn't be the reason I was liked. Rather, I should be liked for my casual and chilled-out attitude at work. But they would tell me that this captain or that captain just wouldn't allow them to fly. Why? How can you mentor tomorrow's aviator if you don't give him the chance to manipulate the controls? Granted, many of the new pilots start with only 250 hrs anyway so I get that the experience level is low but still, I flew with 2500 hr FOs who had very few landings under the belt and were facing upgrade very soon. Not an ideal situation for safety. Now you have a 2500-3,000 hr pilot gong for upgrade. What happens when he is flying with a 250 hr new-hire? Moving on, there were other issues. Indian commanders (not all, only a few but a noticeable amount) liked to domineer their staff from FAs and ground staff all the way up to their FOs. Perhaps it's in their upbringing so it's hard to blame them singly (they have a very Machavellian way of education and child rearing). Whatever it is it can act as a bottleneck to the flow of information needed to facilitate proper CRM thereby encouraging FOs to speak up when they see something going not quite right.

But don't get me wrong here. Their cultural issues aren't entirely flawed. Sometimes such an approach to managing staff is needed. A lot of lying happens in India, for example, a loader/ ramper or a gate agent might lie about how they did something. Sometimes it took a heavy hand to get them to do it correctly. I would usually have my FO go and work out those situations. It was funny how he would quickly assume that domineering role when given the chance to order someone around. But overall though I didn't find that systemic approach conducive to a proper CRM template which is needed for the cockpit environment.

5) Jet and NAG vs "foreigners". Both parties need to be careful as they are an international airline. It can be construed that NAG are being nationalistic and discriminatory against anyone not Indian. That doesn't work well in the global marketplace. I don't really think this needs explaining. But, for example, when i see a pilot on my airline's forum say something against Indians or Muslims, and he's say a 777 pilot who regularly flies to India, I am quick to remind him that we are a global airline. And that the routes he primarily flies only exist because probably 90% of his passengers are Indian (or Muslim). Fact is, you just can't be a racist and claim you want to fly internationally. If you want to be that way, fly domestic routes. Otherwise, show some respect and find a different way to get your point across. Because right now NAG is coming across as against anyone but Indian. That may play well on the national level. But they are an international airline. So they best not forget that while operating on the global stage.
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Old 27th Nov 2017, 00:07
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India...

So, let me get this straight: because of one or a few foul apples (Expats) the Indian Pilots Union wants its members to embargo flying with Expat Pilots but, at the same time, is unable to do ANYTHING about the now mandatory minimum resignation time of 365 days from their air carriers?
They have a problem flying with white/black/yellow folks, but their government which literally put the entire profession into modern day slavery, that is ok? They have any other problems?
Now, if I was a high level manager in Jet Airways, I would pair every senior Pilot and Union Representative with an Expat for half a year and see who would provoke delays, notoriously calls in sick, then fire the first dozend, and see what their helpless pilot Union would do...
the Air Carriers in India can do what ever they want; they ARE the Civil Aviation Authority...! But; I'm always fond of watching things implode, so... bring it on and keep me up to date...
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Old 27th Nov 2017, 18:18
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in the interest of standards, priority should be on expertise/experience/qualifications etc.local/expat should hardly be a factor.
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Old 15th Dec 2017, 11:10
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I would remove addresses, email addresses and your signature from that.
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Old 16th Dec 2017, 04:27
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
I would remove addresses, email addresses and your signature from that.
It seems the entire report has been removed. I think he stands vindicated as per local media reports today. The celebrity cricketer who was not even on the flight & whose tweet triggered the action should be taken to task. He is known the have rubber lips & this is not the first occasion he has lied or falsely accused someone of a racial epithet.

The law in India has given teeth to women to fight back. Unfortunately some are misusing it as the reports on this case emerge. Another recent one on another airline is fast evolving where the blanket right to accuse without being held accountable is emerging.
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Old 16th Dec 2017, 11:07
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After reading his account of the incident he had every right to ask her to get the hell out of the airplane
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