Hainan Expats
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Hainan Expats
Hey guys,
If you are currently working for Hainan could you PM me? I would just like to talk to someone there before I try. Thank you very much.
If you are currently working for Hainan could you PM me? I would just like to talk to someone there before I try. Thank you very much.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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I am NOT at Hainan but at another Chinese carrier but have 6 years experience flying in China. I would be VERY SKEPTICAL of this contract if you are NTR. They will pay you as a Captain once fully checked to the line but in reality you will not for at least 3 years the true PIC. You will fly as a Cruise Captain and your name will never be on the Dispatch release and Flight assignment as the actual PIC. China Southern, Hainan and Air China Cargo have been playing this racket for quite some time now. Ask the CS pilots after 2 years of flying as FO and Cruise captain on 787 and none of them have actually flown as the true PIC listed on the paperwork. Every job application I have ever filled out will state "Only list the actual PIC time as the time when you were assigned the PIC code on the Dispatch release." Essentially the flight time is FO flight time. Another big problem is Hainan will pay 60%for the first 3 months, after this you will be paid 70% until "Checked to the Line". This will take upwards of 1 year. Ask the A-320 guys who transitioned how long it took them before being fully checked to the line. Some are still flying as FOs after2 years. Another issue will be the commuting contract offers 11 days off in your base. These bases will be very slow to come forward and when they do you may not get 11 CONSECUTIVE days. For example if you choose Seattle as a base and you live in Phoenix then getting 2-3 days off in a block, several times per month at your base in Seattle will not help you as its too difficult to commute for such a short period of time. Hainan will state you get 11 days off per month but they may not be consecutive. Ask the Air China cargo pilots about this bait and switch tactic. In the end DO NOT trust a recruiter as they tell great LIES. Read your contract and pay special attention to all aspects and even then they will most likely ignore the plain language and do as they wish. If you want a 4 week on/4 week off contract my advice is stay n the narrow body fleets A-320 and B-737 and you will do fine. If you pursue these widebody aircraft you will be smoked upon continuously by Chinese pilots and ridiculed and harassed as an FO by the true PIC. It's not worth the pain to go there. All the best.
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WP knows what he is talking about Dom. Even though he may not be at Hainan he knows a lot of pilots in China. I hear the exact same stories he has described. Forewarned is forearmed.
TP
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I worked for a subsidiary of the Hainan group and it was a great gig. BCA. All HNA crew could jumpseat on other HNA carriers so I talked to a lot of other crews at other HNA carriers, including Hainan.
Hainan Air is probably tied with Jun Yao as the worst carrier in China for expats. I would bet in their own view, they don't try to treat expats bad, they just treat them like they treat local pilots. The problem is, the way they treat each other, is horrific.
I just went through a different agency to try to go back to my old airline. They tried to talk me into Hainan, and said their was a change in their attitudes towards foreigners, for the better. Unfortunately, that might just mean a change in attitude by one person in their office that recruits foreign pilots. More than likely nothing else has changed.
There is a chance that there is a change for the better, but I wouldn't bet my career on it. I would recommend going with a chinese carrier that has a better rep for dealing with expats. ALL chinese are the same in some ways, which unfortunately is the medical, which all pilots do at CAAC (FAA) hospitals and medical staff. There is no way around it currently.
Hainan Air just raised all their pay rates, lowered their recruiting requirements, in the hope of getting more applicants.
They are currently offering NTR positions on the 787 and 777, with very low required Boeing time in other models. If you go for this deal, you are a test pilot for your career, with a carrier that has a reputation for 1+ year line training (for type rated pilots). As an NTR applicant on a wide body, you will be a JR captain after your 1+ year of line training. God knows how long this will last, as no one has done it yet successfully.
BCA, Spring, Shenzhen, Tianjin, Sichuan, Chengdu, Air China, China Slowly, Xiamen, OK, and SF all have had reasonable amounts of success recruiting and hiring foreign pilots. Going with the one that has a horrific rep, based on the promises of some 23 year old in the recruiting department, is probably a recipe for disaster. I would recommend letting someone else be the test pilot on this one.
Hopefully the ones that apply will have better luck than i just predicted. But i wouldn't bet my own career, or money, on it.
Good luck with your choices.
Hainan Air is probably tied with Jun Yao as the worst carrier in China for expats. I would bet in their own view, they don't try to treat expats bad, they just treat them like they treat local pilots. The problem is, the way they treat each other, is horrific.
I just went through a different agency to try to go back to my old airline. They tried to talk me into Hainan, and said their was a change in their attitudes towards foreigners, for the better. Unfortunately, that might just mean a change in attitude by one person in their office that recruits foreign pilots. More than likely nothing else has changed.
There is a chance that there is a change for the better, but I wouldn't bet my career on it. I would recommend going with a chinese carrier that has a better rep for dealing with expats. ALL chinese are the same in some ways, which unfortunately is the medical, which all pilots do at CAAC (FAA) hospitals and medical staff. There is no way around it currently.
Hainan Air just raised all their pay rates, lowered their recruiting requirements, in the hope of getting more applicants.
They are currently offering NTR positions on the 787 and 777, with very low required Boeing time in other models. If you go for this deal, you are a test pilot for your career, with a carrier that has a reputation for 1+ year line training (for type rated pilots). As an NTR applicant on a wide body, you will be a JR captain after your 1+ year of line training. God knows how long this will last, as no one has done it yet successfully.
BCA, Spring, Shenzhen, Tianjin, Sichuan, Chengdu, Air China, China Slowly, Xiamen, OK, and SF all have had reasonable amounts of success recruiting and hiring foreign pilots. Going with the one that has a horrific rep, based on the promises of some 23 year old in the recruiting department, is probably a recipe for disaster. I would recommend letting someone else be the test pilot on this one.
Hopefully the ones that apply will have better luck than i just predicted. But i wouldn't bet my own career, or money, on it.
Good luck with your choices.
