Hainan 787
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Hi CSAneggar
When you refer to 2nd Captain you say but that will change - why does this change? Does the contract change or do China Southern have some period of time you must be a 2nd Captain before being the PIC?
When CSA or Hainan quote 11 days off per month is that 11 days at home and the company commute you during the other 19/20 days of work? Or will you end up having 9 days at home with one day at either end commuting to/from work?
When you refer to 2nd Captain you say but that will change - why does this change? Does the contract change or do China Southern have some period of time you must be a 2nd Captain before being the PIC?
When CSA or Hainan quote 11 days off per month is that 11 days at home and the company commute you during the other 19/20 days of work? Or will you end up having 9 days at home with one day at either end commuting to/from work?
Join Date: Mar 2003
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First Capt or second Capt, if the pay is the same who cares . You go to china for the money, you got the job based on your PIC time. If you have an issue with that re concider going in the first place.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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I don't care if the pay was $50,000 per month, no way I would ever tolerate anyone smoking around me.
You guys who put up with that crap will pay the price later in life.
You guys who put up with that crap will pay the price later in life.
Join Date: Jun 2015
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Geebz you're spot on. I attended the selection process, confirmed a few rumors and one is regarding smoking in cockpit. For that matter, the whole country. The Chinese are most ignorant in acknowledging danger of secondhand smoke. It's not uncommon to see idiotic fathers carrying their kids while puffing away.
A big no for me, but works great for those smokers who don't care (at least the nice foreign dude that I spoke to), and the air in Beijing city, food, etc, don't be too quick to assume the full pay benefits, if it lasts at all.
A big no for me, but works great for those smokers who don't care (at least the nice foreign dude that I spoke to), and the air in Beijing city, food, etc, don't be too quick to assume the full pay benefits, if it lasts at all.
Join Date: Aug 2014
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CAPT FLAMINGO
CAPTAIN Flamingo, please do not remind me of someone at HNA who was formerly part of recruitment management, perhaps the only foreigner to reach that level in China; Regretfully this chap identifying himself as CAPT M@¥#A when he was simply a First Officer. Other reliable sources indicate he was never a Captain anywhere he worked as pilot prior to HNA.
Interestingly enough, the several modalities of employment at HNA at present state in their Termination Clause and I quote:
"The company or the airline can terminate this agreement if the Crew Member, during the service period:
H) is found to have misrepresented his qualifications and/or flight experience to either the Airlines or to the Comlany"
Quote unquote.
Indeed HNA stop B787 recruitment, somehow most of the B737 Captain upgrades ended serving a long term as four stripes F/O's, but they argue is better and safer that flying B737 domestic in China.
Good luck CAPT FLAMINGO, please forgive me if I am a suspect of a pilot using the acronym CAPT as his fest name.
Interestingly enough, the several modalities of employment at HNA at present state in their Termination Clause and I quote:
"The company or the airline can terminate this agreement if the Crew Member, during the service period:
H) is found to have misrepresented his qualifications and/or flight experience to either the Airlines or to the Comlany"
Quote unquote.
Indeed HNA stop B787 recruitment, somehow most of the B737 Captain upgrades ended serving a long term as four stripes F/O's, but they argue is better and safer that flying B737 domestic in China.
Good luck CAPT FLAMINGO, please forgive me if I am a suspect of a pilot using the acronym CAPT as his fest name.
Good luck CAPT FLAMINGO, please forgive me if I am a suspect of a pilot using the acronym CAPT as his fest name.
BTW, in (level 4) English, CAPT would be a contraction, not an acronym.....
Join Date: Sep 2008
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If smoke is so offensive, why consider Asia? Or for that matter, even bother to post on an Asian forum? That's like looking for work in Australia and complaining that there's too many uv rays from the sun and koala bears. I hate koala bears...
Join Date: Jan 2012
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https://youtu.be/O3uiK7I2T9M
Join Date: Apr 1999
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...and the Academy Award goes to...
They certainty make it look like a great gig. Those expats probably were either forced or got a bonus for making the video. Where do I sign up, NOT!
https://youtu.be/O3uiK7I2T9M
https://youtu.be/O3uiK7I2T9M
Agreed. All those guys were either paid a very fat bonus or threatened with something less than desirable if they failed to participate with convincing and delirious euphoria!
PG
Join Date: Nov 2006
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I'm not looking for work in Asia. Been there, done that. Never say never but at this stage in life, if I ever get terminated, I think I'll spend my savings on re-educating into another line of work before I fly in Asia again, save for India. I sort of enjoyed my time there, despite the chaos of life in such a place.
I come on to prune for perspective. I am fortunate to be working for an airline with the best pay and benefits in the world at the moment. That will change, I know that. But for now it's really good (though we've been at the back of the pack before so I try not to be flippant about it). All that said, we are pilots and we complain about this or that as much as the next group of pilots does. So right about the time when my whining reaches a fevered pitch, I come here to read how other pilots are getting on. Suddenly, my gyro is reset. I have it pretty good right now and, given what you all put up with, I really shouldn't be complaining. I recently completed a contract survey that our union put out and in it they provided a 40+ page comparison with other carriers to show, overall, how much better compensated we are.
Last week I had dinner with a buddy who left ANA for an airline in his home country (in Europe). His take home pay is cut by half but his sanity is up 10x. He is happy, dare I say glowing, about where he's at in life. For him the Asian gig, and all it's games played in the name of "culture", just didn't work. It was refreshing to hear his perspective on things and how privlidged I am to be working for a carrier that, at the moment, respects aviators. It's not perfect, but it's about as close as I've seen to that word in 27 years of being a professional aviator.
Y'alls comments confirm that. I feel for you guys who are stuck in the contract pilot world grind. Hopefully one day you all will organize and vote lock step to fight for better conditions. For now, however, the unfortunate truth is you each undermine each other whether knowingly or unknowingly. The companies who hire use that fact to their advantage to continue the process of game-playing either aviator careers rather than focus of building bonds for a great future of running the business together for the collective good of all.
I wish you all the best of luck but don't be under any illusions that the contract world is the way to go. For 90% of us, it's likely better to take a career FO job at your home town or home country airline before any captain gig abroad. At least on a permanent basis that holds true. Contract gigs are for temporary jobs only.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Last week I had dinner with a buddy who left ANA for an airline in his home country (in Europe). His take home pay is cut by half but his sanity is up 10x. He is happy, dare I say glowing, about where he's at in life. For him the Asian gig, and all it's games played in the name of "culture", just didn't work.
Dom, more than a few?
In the time I've been here, I believe only 1 European has returned, a couple of Aussies. Just off the top of my head, so may have forgotten a couple.
Geebz does make some very valid points, we are our own worst enemies when pilots are quite happy to undercut others for short term gain, without taking the long term aspects into account.
In the time I've been here, I believe only 1 European has returned, a couple of Aussies. Just off the top of my head, so may have forgotten a couple.
Geebz does make some very valid points, we are our own worst enemies when pilots are quite happy to undercut others for short term gain, without taking the long term aspects into account.
Last edited by gtseraf; 24th Jun 2017 at 04:36.
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Last week I had dinner with a buddy who left ANA for an airline in his home country (in Europe). His take home pay is cut by half but his sanity is up 10x. He is happy, dare I say glowing, about where he's at in life. For him the Asian gig, and all it's games played in the name of "culture", just didn't work.
Last edited by InnocentBystander; 29th Jun 2017 at 12:04. Reason: Quoted the wrong post
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Nothing really has changed. The intake is still very slow, mostly due to CAAC red tape BS and overly strict medical standards. Mostly stuff HNA really has not much control over.
The airline itself still needs a boatload of Captains to fuel the expansion (Quite a few planned new routes had to be delayed simply because they don't have enough pilots, especially Captains on the 787) and they try to do everything in their power to speed things up.
Having said that, you are still dealing with a relatively young airline and things are quite different from what you're used to at your "perfect" previous employer. Don't try to "improve" things, you just work yourself into an early grave... Just relax, take the money and have a good time.
The airline itself still needs a boatload of Captains to fuel the expansion (Quite a few planned new routes had to be delayed simply because they don't have enough pilots, especially Captains on the 787) and they try to do everything in their power to speed things up.
Having said that, you are still dealing with a relatively young airline and things are quite different from what you're used to at your "perfect" previous employer. Don't try to "improve" things, you just work yourself into an early grave... Just relax, take the money and have a good time.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Dom, more than a few?
In the time I've been here, I believe only 1 European has returned, a couple of Aussies. Just off the top of my head, so may have forgotten a couple.
In the time I've been here, I believe only 1 European has returned, a couple of Aussies. Just off the top of my head, so may have forgotten a couple.
and earning less than half with eroding conditions start to set in, all of a sudden you are "glowing" for very different reasons.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Can anybody shed some light on the situation at Hainan on the 330? What is the latest on schedules, commuting, basing etc? Anything at all! All the info I can see here is very old.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.