Vietnam Airlines
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Investigated! & results say...
Dear Crews,
We received the following advice about the transport arrangements in Hanoi from VNA late on Friday:
"Effective from 0h00’ on 15th March 2015, the pick up for expat pilots at HAN will be changed as follows:
- For pilots are NOT base in HAN: pilots shall be picked up at Hotel by Crew bus 2h15’ prior the departure time with the following route: Hotel-Flight Crew Division 919-Noibai Airport-FCD919-Hotel
- For HAN base pilots:
- Pilots are requested to arrange themselves to FCD919 office at 121 Nguyen Son-Long Bien district
- Pilots shall be picked up 1h40’ prior the departure time by Crew bus with the following route: FCD 919-Noibai Airport-FCD919"
We understand that this will be disappointing news for HAN based crews, in particular. etc etc etc....
We received the following advice about the transport arrangements in Hanoi from VNA late on Friday:
"Effective from 0h00’ on 15th March 2015, the pick up for expat pilots at HAN will be changed as follows:
- For pilots are NOT base in HAN: pilots shall be picked up at Hotel by Crew bus 2h15’ prior the departure time with the following route: Hotel-Flight Crew Division 919-Noibai Airport-FCD919-Hotel
- For HAN base pilots:
- Pilots are requested to arrange themselves to FCD919 office at 121 Nguyen Son-Long Bien district
- Pilots shall be picked up 1h40’ prior the departure time by Crew bus with the following route: FCD 919-Noibai Airport-FCD919"
We understand that this will be disappointing news for HAN based crews, in particular. etc etc etc....
Last edited by Dihedral1; 8th Mar 2015 at 16:16. Reason: Brevity
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talked to one of my friends here, got the same info. routing of the crew bus will change, using a new road to the airport and for that reason not pass the sofitel and sheraton any more.
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reply to Dihedral1
In HCMC, it s easy to find a housing not far from 919, many apartments around (5-10 mins), it is in the city, and 919 is close to the airport (3 mins), so you can leave your home 1h30 before the flight,even less.
In Hanoi, near 919, you can find only Vietnamese style housing, nothing for expats, no western shops, no expat school , no clinic....NOTHING !!! So you can't live there!! Unless you are Vietnamese !
The West lake (around Sheraton) is the most convenient place to live for expats, with schools and western shops...
Here in Hanoi, until now the free pick up at Sheraton was 1h50 before the flight, and now, with the trip to go to 919, wait the crew bus there , and then go to the airport, you will have to leave your home around 2h30 mins before the flight,cause you have to cross a narrow ****ty bridge always packed with motorbikes and cars, and you will need more than 1h to get back home after the flight.
So if you don't like easy life come here...
Or Dehedral1, maybe you can ask to move to Hanoi if you like it, and to compare...
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I'm going to guess that this may not last long, although I'm not a VN pilot so it is just a guess.
If someone gets called for a trip in which you need to leave your home in the wee hours of the morning to get to "919" or Noi Bai, as I've heard the taxi's are few and far between at that hour. ((Btw… what exactly is "919"?))
If enough guys have issues each and every day getting taxi's to 919 or HAN, flights will then be delayed and would not the company possibly rethink this policy? The guys I've met either at the hotel (which is where my airline lays over also) or within a km or two of the hotel would seem to be most affected.
I see a possible operational issue with this…..
Kap
If someone gets called for a trip in which you need to leave your home in the wee hours of the morning to get to "919" or Noi Bai, as I've heard the taxi's are few and far between at that hour. ((Btw… what exactly is "919"?))
If enough guys have issues each and every day getting taxi's to 919 or HAN, flights will then be delayed and would not the company possibly rethink this policy? The guys I've met either at the hotel (which is where my airline lays over also) or within a km or two of the hotel would seem to be most affected.
I see a possible operational issue with this…..
Kap
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Dehadral1
Confirmation from agencies, expats pilots in Hanoi have now to go for 25 mins , by Taxi if they can find one, or motorbikes, good luck, due to crazy vietnamese drivers !! or horse or whatever, then wait for crew bus, then 25 mins trip again to the airport...
Who still wants to come to Vietnam Airlines, The"flag carrier" .
ENJOY...Better go to VietJet like many Vietnam Airlines Vietnamese Pilots want to do, but Vietnamese Govt block them...
Who still wants to come to Vietnam Airlines, The"flag carrier" .
ENJOY...Better go to VietJet like many Vietnam Airlines Vietnamese Pilots want to do, but Vietnamese Govt block them...
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Nailed by false promises
Oke my first post on PPrune. I swore to myself to never do this, but I guess I failed. Even had to alter my name, what I am about to write.
After I left my previous job, I thought I m gonna go to Vietnam for new adventure. To be honest so far, I am bit disappointed. (I am saying this to be politically correct).
Why you want go to VNA?
The only reasons so far I can think is: you are out of a job or you don't like China. I have to say I enjoy flying with the pilots at VNA.
Vietnam is amazingly beautiful country and personally I like the Vietnamese people.
Rotation schedule.
If you want to build time, in three years you have probably close to 3000 hours on type.
Why you don't want go to VNA?
They still think like communists, you should work hard and for free.
Low salaries, and Vietnam gets more expensive. There are better contracts on the market.
The organization is a mess. They don't think ahead, and act when it's too late.
New transport pick up rules, which is gonna be a complete disaster.
I m very disappointed with the agencies, they collect the money and after that they are pretty useless. Sorry we hope it's not too much inconvenience for you. False advertisement for VNA???
VNA is messing with pilots salaries. Especially when receiving the first month payment.
You work your
off, 90 hours a month. If locals don't want to fly, they call the expats. This has a bit of a tendency to be treated like slaves.
Vietjet is offering 165K according one of their agencies. I read the post, but I don't know the specifics of that Contract. All the locals want to go to Vietjet.
For upgrade/transition you have to pay, I heard around 25K for captain upgrade and around 60/70K for A350 type. You don't get paid during training and sign a bond for X years.
If you have a stable job and you want to change. Think twice..... The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Their are way better jobs out there, than this one.
After I left my previous job, I thought I m gonna go to Vietnam for new adventure. To be honest so far, I am bit disappointed. (I am saying this to be politically correct).
Why you want go to VNA?
The only reasons so far I can think is: you are out of a job or you don't like China. I have to say I enjoy flying with the pilots at VNA.
Vietnam is amazingly beautiful country and personally I like the Vietnamese people.
Rotation schedule.
If you want to build time, in three years you have probably close to 3000 hours on type.
Why you don't want go to VNA?
They still think like communists, you should work hard and for free.
Low salaries, and Vietnam gets more expensive. There are better contracts on the market.
The organization is a mess. They don't think ahead, and act when it's too late.
New transport pick up rules, which is gonna be a complete disaster.
I m very disappointed with the agencies, they collect the money and after that they are pretty useless. Sorry we hope it's not too much inconvenience for you.
False advertisement for VNA???VNA is messing with pilots salaries. Especially when receiving the first month payment.
You work your
off, 90 hours a month. If locals don't want to fly, they call the expats. This has a bit of a tendency to be treated like slaves.Vietjet is offering 165K according one of their agencies. I read the post, but I don't know the specifics of that Contract. All the locals want to go to Vietjet.
For upgrade/transition you have to pay, I heard around 25K for captain upgrade and around 60/70K for A350 type. You don't get paid during training and sign a bond for X years.
If you have a stable job and you want to change. Think twice..... The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Their are way better jobs out there, than this one.
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They will leave it like that. They don't care because they receive their provision whether people have transportation or not, so I think that they haven't made to many efforts to change it
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From the size of the last few intakes of newbies, people are not getting the message..Mack..
As application numbers swell, the arrogance creeps in, hence no pay for first 28 days, reduced salary for several months to almost a year (depending on agency), the removal of agreed up transportation in Hanoi, blocks ingeniously built over 2 months to extract the max amount of flying, but just below the 160hrs threshold for o/t (work it out guys, if on 6/2 weeks, your doing 100hrs in 1st month and 59.8hrs in 2nd month, which consist of 2 weeks, the other 2 being vacation) and no increase in salary since 2008.
So to answer the question, no things won't improve, as new applicants reinforce, the mindset, that it is a good contract in the mind of the Mgnt.
All it suggests to me is things must be pretty grim, in the pilot contract world, when with record aircraft orders, a supposed global shortage of pilots and what seems like record profits for pretty much every airline this year (financial year 2014), this is the best on offer at VN.
Happy Landings..
As application numbers swell, the arrogance creeps in, hence no pay for first 28 days, reduced salary for several months to almost a year (depending on agency), the removal of agreed up transportation in Hanoi, blocks ingeniously built over 2 months to extract the max amount of flying, but just below the 160hrs threshold for o/t (work it out guys, if on 6/2 weeks, your doing 100hrs in 1st month and 59.8hrs in 2nd month, which consist of 2 weeks, the other 2 being vacation) and no increase in salary since 2008.
So to answer the question, no things won't improve, as new applicants reinforce, the mindset, that it is a good contract in the mind of the Mgnt.
All it suggests to me is things must be pretty grim, in the pilot contract world, when with record aircraft orders, a supposed global shortage of pilots and what seems like record profits for pretty much every airline this year (financial year 2014), this is the best on offer at VN.
Happy Landings..
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No pay rise since 2007.
Inflation in the interim has been running over 15% average since.
The overtime is unattainable on a standard contract; so fixed pay.
Duty time to flight time ratio has got to be an industry high with an outrageous amount of positioning, long turnarounds, delays etc.
Vietnam's northern neighbour is offering over double the salary for 6/3 AND 6/2 patterns. Even at 4/4 ratio they pay far more than VNA.
VietJetAir is offering locals expat contracts. An exodus was halted by government order. VNA are facing an imminent crisis of experienced crews.
All with a management that is almost equal parts oblivious, arrogant, impotent and indifferent.
This commute change is just a small reflection of that.
The short version of what's happening in Hanoi is this: an extra hour at work every day unpaid, and not part of duty. This arrangement is well over a decade old so it was/is a reasonable assertion by pilots when searching for accommodation to rely on the hotel pickup.
Nobody would have thought that when the new road opened and commute became shorter that they would in fact have to leave home far earlier. (Gia Lam is the wrong direction and wrong area - also unlivable for most expats)
There was an uproar from pilots. Ignored. The agencies then had a go. Ignored.
VNA consider the matter closed. 1hr extra at work a day. Deal with it they all say...
Inflation in the interim has been running over 15% average since.
The overtime is unattainable on a standard contract; so fixed pay.
Duty time to flight time ratio has got to be an industry high with an outrageous amount of positioning, long turnarounds, delays etc.
Vietnam's northern neighbour is offering over double the salary for 6/3 AND 6/2 patterns. Even at 4/4 ratio they pay far more than VNA.
VietJetAir is offering locals expat contracts. An exodus was halted by government order. VNA are facing an imminent crisis of experienced crews.
All with a management that is almost equal parts oblivious, arrogant, impotent and indifferent.
This commute change is just a small reflection of that.
The short version of what's happening in Hanoi is this: an extra hour at work every day unpaid, and not part of duty. This arrangement is well over a decade old so it was/is a reasonable assertion by pilots when searching for accommodation to rely on the hotel pickup.
Nobody would have thought that when the new road opened and commute became shorter that they would in fact have to leave home far earlier. (Gia Lam is the wrong direction and wrong area - also unlivable for most expats)
There was an uproar from pilots. Ignored. The agencies then had a go. Ignored.
VNA consider the matter closed. 1hr extra at work a day. Deal with it they all say...
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Work at VNA
Since the day I arrived, it got worse at VNA. I was hoping for a good life together with my work in Nam. I guess I was wrong. Also the agencies sell this as the best job on the planet.The amount of paperwork you have to go through makes it hard to live here. (Even to apply, takes weeks to get all the paperwork sorted and when you arrive, they want more copies of everything which they already have) Not to forget the upcoming new transport policy. People leaving or want to leave is tremendous. I think it's very sad. If the management took their head out of their it would be a fun place to live and work, I think.
) Not to forget the upcoming new transport policy. People leaving or want to leave is tremendous. I think it's very sad. If the management took their head out of their it would be a fun place to live and work, I think.
Interesting stuff all this as it corroborates what I heard in Cambodia Angkor and friends in VNA now. I quit Angkor for similar reason's, Contract not properly honored, Crap Roster 1 week at a time with constant argument due to the clown unable to follow his own OM FDTL's, Management rarely responded to the few of us that they hired just bury the arrogant head in the sand and hope it goes away etc etc. Anyway its not about them but What I like is I met a VNA TRE in BKK who said I should Join VNA I politely told him I had other Plan's thanks. No need to mince words mah,
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Woah... Been a few years since I was there, seems to have got worse and worse. I joined in a batch of 6 guys, all of us left within 18 months, the class ahead of us with 11 guys have all left but one I heard however someone did say he's been driven to alcoholism. Out of 16 of the guys I knew, I can't count on two hands the number that "bunked out" overnight.
KapitanL,
I posted this on another thread "If you are A320 I think alot of other option's around just my 10 pennies".
Chai Ja can you guess who the TRE was?
BTW I saw this recently, I have left out the name at the bottom.
Dear All Pilots!
Accroding From Cheft Pilot of Flight Crew Division, VNA has a plan to move some of A321Expat Pilots first Officers to B777, B 787 And A330 also .
A321Expat Pilots firstofficers who would like to move to B777, B787 and A330, please register your name in the A321 Before 15 of March.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Best reagrds
I posted this on another thread "If you are A320 I think alot of other option's around just my 10 pennies".
Chai Ja can you guess who the TRE was?
BTW I saw this recently, I have left out the name at the bottom.
Dear All Pilots!
Accroding From Cheft Pilot of Flight Crew Division, VNA has a plan to move some of A321Expat Pilots first Officers to B777, B 787 And A330 also .
A321Expat Pilots firstofficers who would like to move to B777, B787 and A330, please register your name in the A321 Before 15 of March.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Best reagrds
Last edited by kwaiyai; 12th Mar 2015 at 09:45.
They still think like communists, you should work hard and for free.
If you can't vote them out, they are not going to look out for you, it's human nature. That's the reason communism doesn't work.....human nature.
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787response to Kap
Hey Kap,
Just so you realize what your dealing with..
Ex-pat FOs who have been asked to urgently respond by March 15 (tomorrow), to register their interest in transitioning to 787/777/330, are unable to get answers yet on how much the 787 programme will cost, what the upgrade route will be, expected training starts..
Basically, they have been told, not to worry about the details, just look at the shinny new toy...great way to make career decisions. Is it indicative of overall business planning? Why must the expats respond within a week, didn't they order these planes in 2007, do they not know the manning requirements, do they not yet, with less than 2 months before the first of 5 787 arrive have a cadre of pilots identified? Perhaps this is why the the 350 has been pushed 2 months. This is just speculation on the pilot side, but what of Maintainence, Cabin Crew etc etc...
A few on this forum, have suggested, last minute planning is SOP. Well for the expat FOs, without question that is the case...
Just so you realize what your dealing with..
Ex-pat FOs who have been asked to urgently respond by March 15 (tomorrow), to register their interest in transitioning to 787/777/330, are unable to get answers yet on how much the 787 programme will cost, what the upgrade route will be, expected training starts..
Basically, they have been told, not to worry about the details, just look at the shinny new toy...great way to make career decisions. Is it indicative of overall business planning? Why must the expats respond within a week, didn't they order these planes in 2007, do they not know the manning requirements, do they not yet, with less than 2 months before the first of 5 787 arrive have a cadre of pilots identified? Perhaps this is why the the 350 has been pushed 2 months. This is just speculation on the pilot side, but what of Maintainence, Cabin Crew etc etc...
A few on this forum, have suggested, last minute planning is SOP. Well for the expat FOs, without question that is the case...