P2F Scheme
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Stalker,
If you aren't a troll , then you are certainly immature and childish at least that what your writings suggest.
I can engage in debate for most matters but p2f is unquestionably wrong . Hopefully you will realize this when one day you have to take a pay cut or get laid off because of a 200 hour wonder who walked in the door willing to pay his way through!
If you aren't a troll , then you are certainly immature and childish at least that what your writings suggest.
I can engage in debate for most matters but p2f is unquestionably wrong . Hopefully you will realize this when one day you have to take a pay cut or get laid off because of a 200 hour wonder who walked in the door willing to pay his way through!
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Puzzled
Stalker,
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...ctc-doing.html
In this above thread that you started, you say:
Here, you are defending P2F.
Am just puzzled.
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...ctc-doing.html
In this above thread that you started, you say:
I may stand alone on this subject but I do not agree with what CTC are doing placing pilots straight out of flight training in to large complex transport category jet aircrafts.
I personally think every pilot should have more experience on smaller aircrafts before embarking on this type of kit.
I personally think every pilot should have more experience on smaller aircrafts before embarking on this type of kit.
Am just puzzled.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
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Stalker suggests....
Actually Stalker, a troll could be considered as one who creates 
Storm with baseless information.
I suppose the following statement from any idividual posting in favour of P2Fers to get a rise from the aviation community...
may be a ... let's see how does that old saying go?? Oh yeah...
If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, swims like a duck... well you get the idea.
I suppose the same goes for trolls.
ing that one would not care if they were displaced by cheaper labour is one opinion that many would not share.
Captjns and NZ Defination of a PPRuNe troll = someone who does not share there views and opinions.
Storm with baseless information.I suppose the following statement from any idividual posting in favour of P2Fers to get a rise from the aviation community...
I couldn't care less if I am replaced by some 200 hour wonder....
If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, swims like a duck... well you get the idea.
I suppose the same goes for trolls.
ing that one would not care if they were displaced by cheaper labour is one opinion that many would not share.
Join Date: Jun 2012
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You guys clearly have a vested interest in p2f to defend it the way you do! You still have not provided one single way in which the p2f scam helps the industry AS A WHOLE, only to line the pockets of the airlines and allow the person with the most money NOT the most skill, get the jobs. Its a Pathetic attempt and shame on you for scamming so many ignorant people! There is a special place in hell for people like you when your time is up.
Justagigolo77, if I am not mistaken you are from Canada where a pilot works his way up to the jets in the typical way through flying in remote areas, instructing, regionals and then airlines. Well, I have no right to live and work in your beatiful country unfortunately. In addition to that, most of the European regional carriers state hours on type as a requirement or knowledge of the local lingo.
In Europe it works this way, unfortunately. I hate it, but what can I do? I am still hoping for a rule to be set worldwide, which unfortunately is not gonna happen.
Join Date: Mar 2011
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I get a good laugh out of some of these posters that assume that with a 200 hr CPL/IR you are qualified for the RHS of a jet. Dreams and reality are two different things.
Before I started my flight training, I first went to a major university and received a technical degree. I had friends that wanted to work in entertainment, music, the arts, etc and recieved degrees in Film, Music, Art History etc...They had dreams. They wanted to be the next big music producer, movie producer, or a curator at the Met.
However, after graduation reality soon set in. MOST had to network and a FEW were able to secure jobs from the contacts they made. The vast MAJORITY had to start off at the very very bottom of their respecitve industry and eventually made it; and some started at the very bottom, followed their passion, and after a while gave up and took a job and career that had to pay the bills and feed the family.
What I am trying to say is that there are tons of people out there that paid $100K for a "dream" college degree and wanted to pursue their passions. It's not just pilots that go into debt. What I do find frustrating, is that "freshers", "wet CPL" holders are always complaining about no jobs, how they deserve a job, how they are ready to fly jets etc, etc. etc. The entitlement attitude is amazing. Guess what, supply and demand.
It is all about supply and demand in EVERY single industry. There are more art history majors out there than curator jobs at the MET or MOMA. There are more film majors out there than director/producer jobs at various studios. ETC , ETC, ETC. Wet CPL holders are not any different. You are not special. People outside of aviation have tens of thousands in debt with their dream degrees; however, they are not able to find employment in their dream field. The ones that have, either networked, were in the right place at the right time, or worked their way up from the bottom. Just like you wet cpl holders should be doing; working your way up instead of looking at P2F schemes. Just look at where the entertainment industry (for example), or engineering field or medicine would be if we allowed people to pay their way to a job after graduation. All of the deserving, bright, creative, goal driven kids would take a backseat to the ones that had an extra $50K to spend on obtaining a job. Where would that lead us as a society? What message would we be sending?
And you know what life is sometimes unfair, maybe sometimes it's best to just hang it up. You spent $50K on flight training and ended up working a desk job. But life isn't fair;and how are you wet cpl holders any different or deserving than the people that spent in excess of $100K for their "dream" college degree. I know of close friends that spent in excess of $100K on their dream college degree and they are working a boring desk job, not related to their field of study, so they can afford to feed the family and pay the bills. That's just called reality and moving on with life. But the sob stories on this website from the entitled 250 hours wonders are unreal...
Before I started my flight training, I first went to a major university and received a technical degree. I had friends that wanted to work in entertainment, music, the arts, etc and recieved degrees in Film, Music, Art History etc...They had dreams. They wanted to be the next big music producer, movie producer, or a curator at the Met.
However, after graduation reality soon set in. MOST had to network and a FEW were able to secure jobs from the contacts they made. The vast MAJORITY had to start off at the very very bottom of their respecitve industry and eventually made it; and some started at the very bottom, followed their passion, and after a while gave up and took a job and career that had to pay the bills and feed the family.
What I am trying to say is that there are tons of people out there that paid $100K for a "dream" college degree and wanted to pursue their passions. It's not just pilots that go into debt. What I do find frustrating, is that "freshers", "wet CPL" holders are always complaining about no jobs, how they deserve a job, how they are ready to fly jets etc, etc. etc. The entitlement attitude is amazing. Guess what, supply and demand.
It is all about supply and demand in EVERY single industry. There are more art history majors out there than curator jobs at the MET or MOMA. There are more film majors out there than director/producer jobs at various studios. ETC , ETC, ETC. Wet CPL holders are not any different. You are not special. People outside of aviation have tens of thousands in debt with their dream degrees; however, they are not able to find employment in their dream field. The ones that have, either networked, were in the right place at the right time, or worked their way up from the bottom. Just like you wet cpl holders should be doing; working your way up instead of looking at P2F schemes. Just look at where the entertainment industry (for example), or engineering field or medicine would be if we allowed people to pay their way to a job after graduation. All of the deserving, bright, creative, goal driven kids would take a backseat to the ones that had an extra $50K to spend on obtaining a job. Where would that lead us as a society? What message would we be sending?
And you know what life is sometimes unfair, maybe sometimes it's best to just hang it up. You spent $50K on flight training and ended up working a desk job. But life isn't fair;and how are you wet cpl holders any different or deserving than the people that spent in excess of $100K for their "dream" college degree. I know of close friends that spent in excess of $100K on their dream college degree and they are working a boring desk job, not related to their field of study, so they can afford to feed the family and pay the bills. That's just called reality and moving on with life. But the sob stories on this website from the entitled 250 hours wonders are unreal...
Last edited by TheBigD; 2nd Dec 2013 at 14:41.
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@TheBigD: Tell that to the MPL blokes and who invented these schemes. They will get onto a jet with no more than 50 hours on a real airplane before jumping on A320 or 737 or something even bigger.
I agree with you, networking is everything and I am not planning on going down the P2F route right after completion of flight training. I am interested in having an instructing career which I hope I will somehow have anyway, regardless of whether I will have a jet job or not.
I am interested in bush flying as well but I keep hearing that local restrictions are being applied in order to protect local pilots. Air Taxi on a SEP is not allowed until I have 700 hours TT.
The point though, still is that airlines in Europe require hours on type or on >20 tonnes MTOW, no matter where and in what conditions you have gained your experience, so if bush flying and/or instructing won't work after some years, I may well take the plunge and join a P2F program with the mere purpose of making myself more employable by the airlines or fractionate/corporate operators.
Meh, I hope I will be lucky enough to win the Green Card...
I agree with you, networking is everything and I am not planning on going down the P2F route right after completion of flight training. I am interested in having an instructing career which I hope I will somehow have anyway, regardless of whether I will have a jet job or not.
I am interested in bush flying as well but I keep hearing that local restrictions are being applied in order to protect local pilots. Air Taxi on a SEP is not allowed until I have 700 hours TT.
The point though, still is that airlines in Europe require hours on type or on >20 tonnes MTOW, no matter where and in what conditions you have gained your experience, so if bush flying and/or instructing won't work after some years, I may well take the plunge and join a P2F program with the mere purpose of making myself more employable by the airlines or fractionate/corporate operators.
Meh, I hope I will be lucky enough to win the Green Card...
Join Date: Mar 2011
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so if bush flying and/or instructing won't work after some years, I may well take the plunge and join a P2F program with the mere purpose of making myself more employable by the airlines or fractionate/corporate operators.
