crying for pilots, really?
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crying for pilots, really?
some guys here think Asian airlines are crying for pilots?
is that true?
on other forum, guys from Europe think because some airlines ordered planes it will create a pilot shortage...
is that true?
on other forum, guys from Europe think because some airlines ordered planes it will create a pilot shortage...
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yes and no is the answer, i work for an Indonesian company and we have way too may fo's but not enough captains, most airlines here its the same story, so if you have experience they are crying out for you but if you are a fresh graduate not so much.
in the other asian countries they all have a lot of unemployed locals so they will only recruit their own nationals first eg: Thai, Malaysia and India
in the other asian countries they all have a lot of unemployed locals so they will only recruit their own nationals first eg: Thai, Malaysia and India
The shortage is most critical in the area of; locally licensed Captain, type rated with experience on type, current and decent performance in the sim. Basically someone who can be available on the roster next month.
Numbers of available pilots start increasing as as you move away from the above. Once you get to new licence holders applying from the other side of the world the filing cabinets quickly fill up.
Numbers of available pilots start increasing as as you move away from the above. Once you get to new licence holders applying from the other side of the world the filing cabinets quickly fill up.
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Yes they are. Many Asian carriers are hiring non-type rated captains, when they didn't used to do that. Some are hiring FOs, when they didn't used to do that. Terms and conditions have gotten way better, and minimums have gone down.
Some jobs are last sim in the last 5 years, when they used to require currency last 6 months. Top pay for E-145 capts $15K/month +....while top pay for E170/190 capts is now $18.5/month+.
Some jobs are last sim in the last 5 years, when they used to require currency last 6 months. Top pay for E-145 capts $15K/month +....while top pay for E170/190 capts is now $18.5/month+.
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ground realities
Pilot job dreams crash as aviation suffers - Hindustan Times
Pilot job dreams crash as aviation suffers
Last week, Palash Roy's family was served a legal notice by a bank. Roy's father, a railway employee, had taken a Rs. 18-lakh loan so that his son could enroll in a pilot training academy. Today, Palash, 25, works as a personal assistant to a member of parliament. He says his family has no means to pay back the loan amount.
Palash is one of the many thousands whose dream to become a commercial airline pilot came crashing after a slowdown hit the aviation industry about five years ago. There are an estimated 12,000 unemployed commercial pilot licence (CPL) holders in the country and the number is increasing every year.
Employment opportunities for new comers are next to nil. There are only six domestic carriers. "There is a complete freeze on hiring in almost all airlines. What airlines want are experienced commanders. There is hardly any demand for first officers," said Roy, who had left his engineering course midway to pursue his dream to become a pilot. While a captain earns around Rs. 4.5 lakh-a-month, co-pilots get around Rs. 2 lakh.
Pilot training academies charge between Rs. 20-25 lakh for a one-and-a-year course. That is not all. "After completing CPL training I spent another Rs. 5 lakh on multi-engine training in 2009," said Roy, who hails from Assam.
Airlines, he said, prefer type-rated first officers, which would mean coughing up even more - as much as Rs. 25 lakh - to qualify. However, there is no guarantee if that too would help as there are dozens who are jobless even after getting the type-rating done.
Indian carriers employ around 5,000 pilots and co-pilots, who include around 340 high-cost expatriate commanders.
There are 32 recognised flying schools in the country and joining them involves risk. "There is nothing like a job guarantee or placement," said an official at the Amritsar Aviation Club.
"Kingfisher is gone and no one else is recruiting. The aviation industry is in the doldrums since 2008," said Captain Mohan Ranganathan, an aviation expert. Before spending such huge amounts on flying training people should atleast find out if there are any jobs at all in the market, he said.
Since the Kingfisher crisis began in late 2011, an estimated 400 pilots and 600 cabin crew have left the airline.
"It's true that at present there are no vacancies," said a senior executive at a private carrier.
"Not even a single person in my batch could become a pilot. Those who had family businesses were lucky. Many others went back to college and did their graduation. Many are still sitting idle. There is also an Unemployed Pilot's Welfare Association on Facebook," said Roy.
Those who have trained to be cabin crew are no better off. Salaries for newcomers are as low as Rs. 25,000 a month.
"The charm is gone. Salaries are no more attractive. Very few of us get to fly on international routes. Moreover, there are hardly any vacancies," said a stewardess who did not wish to be named.
Code:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/SectorsAviation/Pilot-job-dreams-crash-as-aviation-suffers/Article1-1005887.aspx
Pilot job dreams crash as aviation suffers
Last week, Palash Roy's family was served a legal notice by a bank. Roy's father, a railway employee, had taken a Rs. 18-lakh loan so that his son could enroll in a pilot training academy. Today, Palash, 25, works as a personal assistant to a member of parliament. He says his family has no means to pay back the loan amount.
Palash is one of the many thousands whose dream to become a commercial airline pilot came crashing after a slowdown hit the aviation industry about five years ago. There are an estimated 12,000 unemployed commercial pilot licence (CPL) holders in the country and the number is increasing every year.
Employment opportunities for new comers are next to nil. There are only six domestic carriers. "There is a complete freeze on hiring in almost all airlines. What airlines want are experienced commanders. There is hardly any demand for first officers," said Roy, who had left his engineering course midway to pursue his dream to become a pilot. While a captain earns around Rs. 4.5 lakh-a-month, co-pilots get around Rs. 2 lakh.
Pilot training academies charge between Rs. 20-25 lakh for a one-and-a-year course. That is not all. "After completing CPL training I spent another Rs. 5 lakh on multi-engine training in 2009," said Roy, who hails from Assam.
Airlines, he said, prefer type-rated first officers, which would mean coughing up even more - as much as Rs. 25 lakh - to qualify. However, there is no guarantee if that too would help as there are dozens who are jobless even after getting the type-rating done.
Indian carriers employ around 5,000 pilots and co-pilots, who include around 340 high-cost expatriate commanders.
There are 32 recognised flying schools in the country and joining them involves risk. "There is nothing like a job guarantee or placement," said an official at the Amritsar Aviation Club.
"Kingfisher is gone and no one else is recruiting. The aviation industry is in the doldrums since 2008," said Captain Mohan Ranganathan, an aviation expert. Before spending such huge amounts on flying training people should atleast find out if there are any jobs at all in the market, he said.
Since the Kingfisher crisis began in late 2011, an estimated 400 pilots and 600 cabin crew have left the airline.
"It's true that at present there are no vacancies," said a senior executive at a private carrier.
"Not even a single person in my batch could become a pilot. Those who had family businesses were lucky. Many others went back to college and did their graduation. Many are still sitting idle. There is also an Unemployed Pilot's Welfare Association on Facebook," said Roy.
Those who have trained to be cabin crew are no better off. Salaries for newcomers are as low as Rs. 25,000 a month.
"The charm is gone. Salaries are no more attractive. Very few of us get to fly on international routes. Moreover, there are hardly any vacancies," said a stewardess who did not wish to be named.
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Experienced, current and qualified! Sure, there are some opportunities to be had but for the low time pilots and for the out of currency guys, it is tough out there
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"who include around 340 high-cost expatriate commanders"
Without these high costing Ex Pat Captains the Indian carriers would be losing even more money than they currently are losing. It is strictly a cost-benefit analysis, keeping an Ex Pat Captain airborne generates much more than his salary. China learned this long ago and now leads Ex Pat pay. Other countries are a little slower to come around to Industry standard terms and conditions but eventually will have to in order to attract the qualified and skilled talent.
Without these high costing Ex Pat Captains the Indian carriers would be losing even more money than they currently are losing. It is strictly a cost-benefit analysis, keeping an Ex Pat Captain airborne generates much more than his salary. China learned this long ago and now leads Ex Pat pay. Other countries are a little slower to come around to Industry standard terms and conditions but eventually will have to in order to attract the qualified and skilled talent.
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Many Asian carriers are hiring non-type rated captains
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Is not that there aren't a few non-typed DEC jobs out there, it is that your PIC times are not competitive, regardless of what A/C's your SIC times are on, for the non typed DEC game, SIC times are useless.
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@WYOMING
Without these high costing Ex Pat Captains the Indian carriers would be losing even more money than they currently are losing. It is strictly a cost-benefit analysis, keeping an Ex Pat Captain airborne generates much more than his salary
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The 12000 unemployed number is untrue
12000 is the number of pilots in India that have been issued a Commercial Pilot License since the beginning of Indian aviation .
Unemployed number would be around 5000-6000
12000 is the number of pilots in India that have been issued a Commercial Pilot License since the beginning of Indian aviation .
Unemployed number would be around 5000-6000
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Aeronino. not crazy at all.
12000 guys/gals with SJS. They assumed the Indian market would explode with a need for pilots. But they over estimated. FTO's were happy to provide a service for these ladies and gents. Unfortunate part is lots of these guys/gals were naive. Thought a CPL with 250 hours would get them in the RHS of a 737. Works for a select few but for the vast vast majority of pilots they get there through GA work. Unfortunately not that much GA work in India. So it comes down to numbers. Supply and demand. Then you have these 12000 pilots that can't get a job so now lets say 10-20% are looking into other avenues p2f/line training etc. These guys are so desparate they are willing to pay 50-60K for line training and work for peanuts on top of that. So the QOL in the industry will continue to be eroded. Advice for a lot of these wet CPL ticket holders: move on with your life; you've had some good memories; the chances of it working out are slim. The areas of growth (indo, etc) need EXPERIENCED pilots. Eventually; most FO slots will be filled by their own nationals not expats. Sorry for sounding negative but that is what is going on.
12000 guys/gals with SJS. They assumed the Indian market would explode with a need for pilots. But they over estimated. FTO's were happy to provide a service for these ladies and gents. Unfortunate part is lots of these guys/gals were naive. Thought a CPL with 250 hours would get them in the RHS of a 737. Works for a select few but for the vast vast majority of pilots they get there through GA work. Unfortunately not that much GA work in India. So it comes down to numbers. Supply and demand. Then you have these 12000 pilots that can't get a job so now lets say 10-20% are looking into other avenues p2f/line training etc. These guys are so desparate they are willing to pay 50-60K for line training and work for peanuts on top of that. So the QOL in the industry will continue to be eroded. Advice for a lot of these wet CPL ticket holders: move on with your life; you've had some good memories; the chances of it working out are slim. The areas of growth (indo, etc) need EXPERIENCED pilots. Eventually; most FO slots will be filled by their own nationals not expats. Sorry for sounding negative but that is what is going on.
Last edited by TheBigD; 1st May 2013 at 16:56.
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Quote:
Without these high costing Ex Pat Captains the Indian carriers would be losing even more money than they currently are losing. It is strictly a cost-benefit analysis, keeping an Ex Pat Captain airborne generates much more than his salary Sir, could you kindly elaborate this?
Most assuredly, Price for an Ex Pat Captain $200 per hour, revenue generated per hour $5000, simple math, the Ex Pat Captain generates far more than his salary. India is short of qualified Captains thus the DEC positions are offered.
Without these high costing Ex Pat Captains the Indian carriers would be losing even more money than they currently are losing. It is strictly a cost-benefit analysis, keeping an Ex Pat Captain airborne generates much more than his salary Sir, could you kindly elaborate this?
Most assuredly, Price for an Ex Pat Captain $200 per hour, revenue generated per hour $5000, simple math, the Ex Pat Captain generates far more than his salary. India is short of qualified Captains thus the DEC positions are offered.
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There is no shortage of real pilots.
There is a severe shortage of airlines willing to pay for experienced pilots, train to high standards and therefore recruit the most suitable pilots. Look at CX but for the latest once great airline racing to the bottom in the chase for profit at the expense of standards.
There is a severe shortage "pilots" who think that spending masses of money on a shiny CPL grants them the RHS of a 777, A330/340 or 747. They'll tolerate a 737 of A320 but anything with a prop is a slander.
There is a severe shortage of pilots with the balls to go out and get a job to build hours and experience: to travel overseas if need be (or even leave home) to fly some freight or meat-bombing to get their tail into a control seat be a C210, C182 or light twin. The words "general aviation" make them cringe and viewed as being beneath them.
There is a severe shortage of pilots who are not "Children of the Magenta" lacking the basic stick and rudder skills.
However, there is no shortage of whining Gen-Y "pilots" with a fresh CPL who believe they are owed a job by virtue of nationality alone, neglecting any form of experience and true credentials.
There is a severe shortage of airlines willing to pay for experienced pilots, train to high standards and therefore recruit the most suitable pilots. Look at CX but for the latest once great airline racing to the bottom in the chase for profit at the expense of standards.
There is a severe shortage "pilots" who think that spending masses of money on a shiny CPL grants them the RHS of a 777, A330/340 or 747. They'll tolerate a 737 of A320 but anything with a prop is a slander.
There is a severe shortage of pilots with the balls to go out and get a job to build hours and experience: to travel overseas if need be (or even leave home) to fly some freight or meat-bombing to get their tail into a control seat be a C210, C182 or light twin. The words "general aviation" make them cringe and viewed as being beneath them.
There is a severe shortage of pilots who are not "Children of the Magenta" lacking the basic stick and rudder skills.
However, there is no shortage of whining Gen-Y "pilots" with a fresh CPL who believe they are owed a job by virtue of nationality alone, neglecting any form of experience and true credentials.
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ok let s go see if there is a pilot shortage.
Recruiters, please pm me.... i have 250h cpl, ready to work In asia. no pay to fly.
now lets wait 3 days... and i will see if my pprune boxe will be full or empty... I keep you posted
Recruiters, please pm me.... i have 250h cpl, ready to work In asia. no pay to fly.
now lets wait 3 days... and i will see if my pprune boxe will be full or empty... I keep you posted
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atpcliff,
NOT even close, sorry.
Like so many people have already stated if your Captain qualified and current with 500 hrs on type you bet you can land a pretty decent gig that pays pretty well, but your time off is not great on many of the contracts.
I've been looking for 4 months for work out here in Asia and have not even so much as been invited for an interview. NTR F/O's, really? If you have a JAA and want to fly in Turkey, then maybe but thats about it.
With some of the a/c orders there should be a ton of hiring happening but its not and what there is has a lot of preferences
NOT even close, sorry.
Like so many people have already stated if your Captain qualified and current with 500 hrs on type you bet you can land a pretty decent gig that pays pretty well, but your time off is not great on many of the contracts.
I've been looking for 4 months for work out here in Asia and have not even so much as been invited for an interview. NTR F/O's, really? If you have a JAA and want to fly in Turkey, then maybe but thats about it.
With some of the a/c orders there should be a ton of hiring happening but its not and what there is has a lot of preferences