Vietnam Airlines Tax
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Vietnam Airlines Tax
Is it true that one of you guys got a tax invoice from the Vietnam Tax Office for a 5 figure sum? Don't you guys have something in your contract with VNA paying for that??????
Last edited by youwantmetodowhat; 30th Jun 2012 at 21:28.
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Last edited by Flexable; 30th Jul 2012 at 16:12.
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looks to be more than 100K usd, as a friend working there told me,
but he was trying hard to get this bill, going to the tax office at his own.....
so he deserves it, future will show how the other expats working there will
be affected by his stupidity, never try to wake up a sleeping lion!
but he was trying hard to get this bill, going to the tax office at his own.....
so he deserves it, future will show how the other expats working there will
be affected by his stupidity, never try to wake up a sleeping lion!
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Have you got any news about expats paying taxes in VN ?
Is that a new law, just like in Hong Kong (read up the thread "Air Hong Kong A310 Captain take home pay" on PPrune) ?
Do you have to pay it to the VN government or to the country which gives you your passport ?
Is that a new law, just like in Hong Kong (read up the thread "Air Hong Kong A310 Captain take home pay" on PPrune) ?
Do you have to pay it to the VN government or to the country which gives you your passport ?
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According to my contract (which was confirmed by my contractor), VNA should be responsible for my income taxes in Vietnam... (I have a suspicion that they might not entirely pay it:-) My home country and VN has an agreement on double taxation, according to which, I only have to pay taxes in VN, luckily my contract is enough to prove it, nothing is needed from the tax authority... As VNA should be paying my taxes, that is kinda not my business if they do it or not. I did everything I could to be legal. As long as nobody asks me, I just keep a low profile, try not to stir things up.
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Mach 84 - I don’t know if you work for Vietnam Airlines but you seem to be jumping to conclusions and bandying words about such as “stupidity” when you admit you are getting the information second hand via a friend”. Perhaps some real facts will help you make a better judgement?
It is true that a tax bill of over USD $110,000 has been received by one of the pilots working for Vietnam Airlines and it is true that he sought to find out if his contractual benefits were being paid. Why did he do this? …… In his contract it is stated that all Vietnamese tax would be paid by Vietnam Airlines. I.e. He is paid “net” of any Vietnamese tax. In his particular country of tax residence he is taxed on his worldwide income. The country in question does not have a dual taxation agreement with Vietnam. If he is to avoid his “net” income being treated as a “gross” income by his tax resident country (they could tax him on the full sum) then he must provide a tax paid receipt (for offset purposes) from Vietnam. He faces a 35% reduction of his “net” income if he can’t provide a receipt from Vietnam. Remember his contract clearly and unequivocally says that these taxes will be paid by Vietnam Airlines so all he is doing is asking for confirmation that the terms of a legal contract are being complied with. He has an incentive of avoiding a 35% pay cut if he cannot produce a tax paid certificate.
What he found out is that Vietnam Airlines are paying corporation tax when they send the combined monthly payment to the pilot employment agencies, but Personal Income Tax is not being paid. He also found out that the Vietnamese Tax man considerers the individual pilots as Tax Resident in Vietnam and and liable for the full rate of PIT. They are imposing fines for overdue taxes so the debt is escalating day by day. Other Ex Pats have already had their exit visa’s cancelled (not allowed to leave the country) until the back taxes are paid! It is a fact that by not paying PIT the individual (not Vietnam Airlines) is breaking the law. Breaking Vietnamese law is something which can terminate his contract without notice!
Now you may be able to sleep easy with a potential pay cut of 35%, being made a criminal, running up an unpaid personal income tax bill of $110,000 USD, having your exit visa cancelled because your employment agency/Vietnam Airlines failed to meet their contract terms, but you may have no financial commitments such as a mortgage or a family to support …… he does.
It is true that a tax bill of over USD $110,000 has been received by one of the pilots working for Vietnam Airlines and it is true that he sought to find out if his contractual benefits were being paid. Why did he do this? …… In his contract it is stated that all Vietnamese tax would be paid by Vietnam Airlines. I.e. He is paid “net” of any Vietnamese tax. In his particular country of tax residence he is taxed on his worldwide income. The country in question does not have a dual taxation agreement with Vietnam. If he is to avoid his “net” income being treated as a “gross” income by his tax resident country (they could tax him on the full sum) then he must provide a tax paid receipt (for offset purposes) from Vietnam. He faces a 35% reduction of his “net” income if he can’t provide a receipt from Vietnam. Remember his contract clearly and unequivocally says that these taxes will be paid by Vietnam Airlines so all he is doing is asking for confirmation that the terms of a legal contract are being complied with. He has an incentive of avoiding a 35% pay cut if he cannot produce a tax paid certificate.
What he found out is that Vietnam Airlines are paying corporation tax when they send the combined monthly payment to the pilot employment agencies, but Personal Income Tax is not being paid. He also found out that the Vietnamese Tax man considerers the individual pilots as Tax Resident in Vietnam and and liable for the full rate of PIT. They are imposing fines for overdue taxes so the debt is escalating day by day. Other Ex Pats have already had their exit visa’s cancelled (not allowed to leave the country) until the back taxes are paid! It is a fact that by not paying PIT the individual (not Vietnam Airlines) is breaking the law. Breaking Vietnamese law is something which can terminate his contract without notice!
Now you may be able to sleep easy with a potential pay cut of 35%, being made a criminal, running up an unpaid personal income tax bill of $110,000 USD, having your exit visa cancelled because your employment agency/Vietnam Airlines failed to meet their contract terms, but you may have no financial commitments such as a mortgage or a family to support …… he does.
Last edited by chopper2; 22nd Jul 2012 at 06:00.
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Back in the day Jetstar cooked up new "best industry practice, the business has morphed" contracts for their pilots where the salary breakdown completely changed to being a service fee that is liable to tax and then the majority of earnings were based on tax exempt "allowances" that some of the desk boffins cooked up during a head clown meeting over a Caphe Sua Da at Boeing Cafe. Also it changed from a contract of employment with Jetstar to a contract for services, via Parc but paid by the best industry practice Jetstar finance team. 
Parc were involved with this through the whole process so I am pretty sure they will have a strong handle on the whole tax situation in VN.
Parc were involved with this through the whole process so I am pretty sure they will have a strong handle on the whole tax situation in VN.
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Chopper 2, you seem very informed about the details and motives of the person concerned. Well, whatever his motives, it back fired substantially; to him and perhaps to the whole expat pilot group. Thanks for that. It's too late now, but I still wonder if he would have been better served if he would have approached his employers first (his agency and perhaps Vietnam Airlines) explained the situation and maybe would have gotten the tax confirmation he was looking for. Instead he chose to take matters into his own hands, ran to authorities of a country he will never understand how it really works and functions and the result is evident. Btw. please consider, every pilot has either him or herself and families to support and mortgages to pay. Thanks again for that. Also, could you shed more light on exit visas being cancelled ? Was this in the past or is it a current thing with Vietnam pilots. Thanks.
Hello Chopper 2=JB
Its all about you ! Troi oi! You choose to move from the UK to NZ & due to your own "desire" have managed to create an absolute nightmare for all & sundry.
Expats have been working in Vietnam for 15 plus years & NO-ONE has ever had a tax problem at home-now-who the hell knows? How many expat Pilots do you think have worked here over the last 15 years?
You are amazing-you will soon find you are without a job & can then sue the Vietnamese Government-ask the Yanks what that cost?
Scandistralian
CE-must be you? What is the point?-We have work permits & VAC are now asking for them-this situation has been forced upon the Industry-maybe.
Its all about you ! Troi oi! You choose to move from the UK to NZ & due to your own "desire" have managed to create an absolute nightmare for all & sundry.
Expats have been working in Vietnam for 15 plus years & NO-ONE has ever had a tax problem at home-now-who the hell knows? How many expat Pilots do you think have worked here over the last 15 years?
You are amazing-you will soon find you are without a job & can then sue the Vietnamese Government-ask the Yanks what that cost?
Scandistralian
CE-must be you? What is the point?-We have work permits & VAC are now asking for them-this situation has been forced upon the Industry-maybe.
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Vietnam Airlines IS the Vietnamese government. I am sure this will pass with some greenbacks (or gold) changing hands that no expat will ever understand. The rest of us know Vietnam Airlines as an airline. The Vietnamese consider it the transportation arm of their import/export business.
The government coming down on the airline?????? They are one in the same.
The government coming down on the airline?????? They are one in the same.
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I reckon Tanua is correct - yonks ago in my day it was well known VN never
actually paid any of the pilots taxes and everyone was fat dumb and happy
with the status quo. Long as everybody just shut the fcuk up there was no
problem. Seems that particular advice has long disappeared from the expat
unofficial induction curriculum.
Fact is chopper2 what you went and did may've been legal and "right" but it
certainly wasn't bloody streetwise was it - you should have sort advice from
the local pilot rep of your agency and other expats. I reckon you've screwed
the pooch for everyone but time will tell whether any damage control in the
wings will be effective.
actually paid any of the pilots taxes and everyone was fat dumb and happy
with the status quo. Long as everybody just shut the fcuk up there was no
problem. Seems that particular advice has long disappeared from the expat
unofficial induction curriculum.
Fact is chopper2 what you went and did may've been legal and "right" but it
certainly wasn't bloody streetwise was it - you should have sort advice from
the local pilot rep of your agency and other expats. I reckon you've screwed
the pooch for everyone but time will tell whether any damage control in the
wings will be effective.
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Chopper2
VNA is indeed the government, it is totally owned by the government and does not have foreign funds like Jetstar.
Since VNA has already redefined the kind of taxes they pay, Rishworth would follow too. As neither Rishworth nor VNA would provide tax certification, it is up to the expats to proove to their own country if and where his tax was paid.
Besides, it boils down to wether you are considered resident (ie tax payer) or non-resident ( waved of taxes) in a country. A very long list of criteria defines a non-resident status in each country. You are not free of taxes because you don't live in your own country on a regular basis, the lenght of your vacations home being only one of those criteria. This is an international agreement to which most country abide, except where they only have leopards and rhinos ruling the jungle.
Moreover, once you pay taxes in VN, your country may request that you pay the difference between the 2 taxes to the highest tax system. No one can escape this. There is no such a thing as a free tax rider.
I agree with Chopper2 : if you must pay, pay now rather than later, unless you are foolish enough to choose to permanently close the door of you country and die in VN.
If the VN government is still planing a strategy to cook you all, they would make a hearty Pho' of all expats including pilots. The forum's quietness about the tax topic is very dangerous. Wake up everybody, don't wait till the the s..t hit the fan ! Get together and get all the head hunters' head together.
NB :
1 - Meanwhile, with an exit visa cancelled, how do the expat pilots fly internationally ?
2 - Did any one else from VNA or from other airlines in VN recieved the Tax request so far ? Pls pass the info around urgently.
Since VNA has already redefined the kind of taxes they pay, Rishworth would follow too. As neither Rishworth nor VNA would provide tax certification, it is up to the expats to proove to their own country if and where his tax was paid.
Besides, it boils down to wether you are considered resident (ie tax payer) or non-resident ( waved of taxes) in a country. A very long list of criteria defines a non-resident status in each country. You are not free of taxes because you don't live in your own country on a regular basis, the lenght of your vacations home being only one of those criteria. This is an international agreement to which most country abide, except where they only have leopards and rhinos ruling the jungle.
Moreover, once you pay taxes in VN, your country may request that you pay the difference between the 2 taxes to the highest tax system. No one can escape this. There is no such a thing as a free tax rider.
I agree with Chopper2 : if you must pay, pay now rather than later, unless you are foolish enough to choose to permanently close the door of you country and die in VN.
If the VN government is still planing a strategy to cook you all, they would make a hearty Pho' of all expats including pilots. The forum's quietness about the tax topic is very dangerous. Wake up everybody, don't wait till the the s..t hit the fan ! Get together and get all the head hunters' head together.
NB :
1 - Meanwhile, with an exit visa cancelled, how do the expat pilots fly internationally ?
2 - Did any one else from VNA or from other airlines in VN recieved the Tax request so far ? Pls pass the info around urgently.
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VN taxes goes to officials???
Vietnam Airlines official accused of personnel fraud*
Last Updated: Monday, July 16, 2012 05:40:00
*
Vietnam Airlines Corporation*inspectors have confirmed a pilot's allegations about personnel-related frauds by a fleet head, but said there is no evidence that he helped pilots*evade taxes*worth hundreds of billions of*dong.
Tran Thanh Dung had accused Hoang Van Manh, chief pilot of Vietnam Airlines fleet and the secretary of its Party unit, of violating laws and regulations.
Investigations confirmed that Manh had indeed*falsified documents to make out that two subordinates, Nguyen Thi Hanh, 49, and Nghiem Thi Hanh, 38, could get bigger wages.
He also hired Le Truong Giang for the fleet’s administrative and planning department in 2009 though Giang failed to score enough in the entrance test.
But the inspectors*rejected Dung’s charge that Manh had helped foreign pilots evade income tax worth VND720 billion (US$34.5 million), saying there is no evidence.
Dung had said the fleet employed around 1,200 foreign pilots between 2008 and 2011, but, in violation of*labor regulations, only informed about six of them to the Ministry of Justice and Hanoi labor authorities.
The total payment made to the pilots was $120 million.
But the inspectors found that 34 foreign pilots had been licensed just in 2010, 16 in 2011, and three this year so far.
To Ngoc Giang, deputy head of the company's Inspection Committee, said the carrier only signed contracts directly with four foreign pilots, hiring the rest through a contractor.
Dung told Nguoi Lao Dong that his boss blamed him saying his accusation had prevented the fleet from getting its share of the half-year*profits.
“It is*very unfair that I am treated this way after exposing wrongdoing to fight corruption,” he said.
Last Updated: Monday, July 16, 2012 05:40:00
*
Vietnam Airlines Corporation*inspectors have confirmed a pilot's allegations about personnel-related frauds by a fleet head, but said there is no evidence that he helped pilots*evade taxes*worth hundreds of billions of*dong.
Tran Thanh Dung had accused Hoang Van Manh, chief pilot of Vietnam Airlines fleet and the secretary of its Party unit, of violating laws and regulations.
Investigations confirmed that Manh had indeed*falsified documents to make out that two subordinates, Nguyen Thi Hanh, 49, and Nghiem Thi Hanh, 38, could get bigger wages.
He also hired Le Truong Giang for the fleet’s administrative and planning department in 2009 though Giang failed to score enough in the entrance test.
But the inspectors*rejected Dung’s charge that Manh had helped foreign pilots evade income tax worth VND720 billion (US$34.5 million), saying there is no evidence.
Dung had said the fleet employed around 1,200 foreign pilots between 2008 and 2011, but, in violation of*labor regulations, only informed about six of them to the Ministry of Justice and Hanoi labor authorities.
The total payment made to the pilots was $120 million.
But the inspectors found that 34 foreign pilots had been licensed just in 2010, 16 in 2011, and three this year so far.
To Ngoc Giang, deputy head of the company's Inspection Committee, said the carrier only signed contracts directly with four foreign pilots, hiring the rest through a contractor.
Dung told Nguoi Lao Dong that his boss blamed him saying his accusation had prevented the fleet from getting its share of the half-year*profits.
“It is*very unfair that I am treated this way after exposing wrongdoing to fight corruption,” he said.
Last edited by yanafrica; 23rd Jul 2012 at 03:51.
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How about Jetstar, Vietjet pilots, etc ?
They can't remove your passport because the show must go on, international flights have to continue.
VNA and its little sister Jetstar may jump on this opportunity to offer "help" to pay off their expat pilot's tax debt, guess what ? by giving you the option of keeping a bit off you monthly salary until the government deems it fair, or impose a "voluntary contribution" to save the Company, a mentality communist regimes have invented to provide their citizens opportunities to proove they are loyal and devoted to the religion called patriotism.
That is much more efficient than terminating every one's contract.
Watch out !
VNA and its little sister Jetstar may jump on this opportunity to offer "help" to pay off their expat pilot's tax debt, guess what ? by giving you the option of keeping a bit off you monthly salary until the government deems it fair, or impose a "voluntary contribution" to save the Company, a mentality communist regimes have invented to provide their citizens opportunities to proove they are loyal and devoted to the religion called patriotism.
That is much more efficient than terminating every one's contract.
Watch out !
Years ago the Saudis decided to introduce income tax on their previously non taxed expats. There was such an outcry over this that they had to back down or the country would have come to a stop.
As a face saving measure the condition that pay would be tax free subject to a minimum of one years service was imposed.
As a face saving measure the condition that pay would be tax free subject to a minimum of one years service was imposed.
Last edited by Metro man; 26th Jul 2012 at 13:08.
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Tax in Japan and HK.
Look up the thread " Air Hong Kong tax debacle" in Fragrant Harbour Forum, and " Foreign pilots resign from Air Japan over tax issues" at PIREP : http://**********/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12681.
Sooner or later, expat would not be really candidate for tax exemption. Watch your home income tax inquiries once you are back home.
Sooner or later, expat would not be really candidate for tax exemption. Watch your home income tax inquiries once you are back home.