DGCA Instrument Rating Requirements

[PanzerIV]

Hi everybody,

Long-time lurker here and first I would like to say thanks to you guys for being the primary source of reliable information when it comes to aviation matters in India. You guys were really helpful when it came to logging recency hours and submitting documents for conversion.

Anyway, on to my dilemma.

I got my FAA CPL SE/ME/IR back in Nov 2009. Then I cleared all the DGCA exams/RTR(A) etc and completed my recency on May 28 2011 (USA). I submitted my documents and for various reasons, received many shortfall letters but finally got my DGCA CPL SE/ME on 28th April (C172, PA34).

Anyway, I find out I haven't been issued my IR so I lose my **** and go to the DGCA this evening to find out why. I spoke to Mr. Vasistha, whom I know many of you are familiar with, and he tells me this is because my IR Test reports have been signed by the Chief Flight Instructor of the school and not the instructors who have conducted the tests (this is because those instructors had left the school when I asked for the documents to be re-verified).

Unbelievably, it turns out that the Chief Instructors signatures are not valid on IR test reports and so no IR for me! Tried meeting the director (licensing), but turns out this is the one day he's not in the office so I'll try again tomorrow.

Now, I wanted to ask you guys for some help (did a search and came up with nothing on the forums, so sorry if some of these are common.)

1. DGCA circular states that for an Initial IR Issue I need 40 hrs IR + 5 hrs in the last six months. Does that mean that once I fly 5 hours instrument time I can directly do my IR test?

2. I want to confirm that the IR test is minimum 45 minutes, with 20 minutes under the hood, 2 approaches and one landing. Can anyone confirm?

3. The school I want to go to (If I have to) was CHIMES because they have 172's and a simulator, so will I be able to conduct IR training on a simulator and then use the aircraft for my test? (I'm assuming the simulator is cheaper, so correct me if I'm wrong)

4. Can I just do a single engine IR and will that cause any problems when I apply for an NOC for a type rating?

If anyone has experience or knows a good school with 172's to do my Instrument Rating with, let me know!

I realise even if I got my IR I would have to renew it before May 28th of this year, but if I can get my instrument rating then I wont have to fly the extra 5 hours before giving a renewal check.

Thanks for your help guys.

[Saint Jack]

"(PPrune)....being the primary source of reliable information when it comes to aviation matters in India".

Now that's downright scary. It also speaks volumes about the relationship between the DGCA and the aviation community. Don't they talk to each other? The statement also goes along way to explain why there are so many "how do I" posts originating from India.

[cyrilroy21]

@Panzer

Sorry to hear about your situation . Its only a documentary issue . Even if you meet Bhardwaj he is going to tell you to get the signature .

I am sure you can ask your Chief Flight Instructor to get the contact details of the instructor who took the IR check . Then contact him and sort out the issue .

The other and expensive method would be to get the IR done in India .

But remember that if you dont have a ME IR on your Indian DGCA license , none of the Airbus operators will be able to hire you . Its a DGCA rule to have ME IR on your license in order for them to endorse an Airbus type rating
Thats why airlines like IndiGo have this requirement . And seeing how only IndiGo has been hiring consistently this something you should not ignore .

Also from now on you dont need NOC to go for type rating
http://www.dgca.nic.in/cars/D7B-B19.pdf

Also I think with this new CAR you can go abroad and get an IR endorsement without the need for an NOC

http://www.dgca.nic.in/cars/D7B-B17.pdf

[PanzerIV]

Cyril,

Thanks for the heads up on ME IR. I was surprised that ME IR was required because I figured the IR skill test was to establish competency in procedure and Mr. Vasistha told me I can just get my SE IR and it shouldn't be a problem. But then I too believe that ME IR would be required by airlines like Indigo.

I was reading http://www.dgca.nic.in/circular/FCL1_2012.pdf
The new flowchart for conversion

and I'm confused::

1. Can I do my IR skill test abroad and submit that for conversion, as mentioned under (what you must get from foreign). OR

2. Do I have to do my IR skill test in India as mentioned under (what applicants must do in India)

3. Since I now have to get ME IR. I'm assuming I can do ME hours in another country (since I've heard that the Seneca in India is really expensive) and then come here and do my ME IR skill check.

Thanks for your links regarding the NOC issue, so thats clear.

[cyrilroy21]

Since you mentioned that your CPL has been issued you wont have the privilege of conversion anymore .
You will be treated as an Indian CPL holder who will be going abroad to get an IR rating
Hence the flow chart wont apply to you .

The second link I gave you regarding the IR endorsement abroad is what would apply to you . You will need to some FAM flights prior to undergoing any IR training and IR check .
I would suggest you take a printout of the second link , go to vashisht and ask him how many hours you have to fly and what else you have to do prior to undergoing the IR check and tell him you will be going abroad .

You will need more than 45 minutes for the IR check . Ideally 1.2 hours total time with 1 hour under the hood .
This is the DGCA form for IR check
http://dgca.nic.in/forms/crew-d/Prof_IR.pdf

And Yes IndiGo does require ME IR on your DGCA license
For more details look here
https://pilot.cae.com/Programs/Indigo.aspx

[PanzerIV]

Thanks Cyril you've been a great help!

[zer0_grav]

CFI signature

I have peculiar question,

What if your MIFR flight test was conducted by the CFI, would his/her signature be ok then?

The school I went to, MIFR flight test is suppose to be your last flight, hence is done with the CFI or acting CFI, one of many ways CFI keeps tabs on the flight training.

Thanks.

[PanzerIV]

Zero Grav, from what I've been told, that should be ok. As long as the person who conducted your test signs it, you'll be fine (again, from what I've been told by the DGCA).

In fact, I believe one of the pdf's Cyril posted has a notation indicating that the person carrying out the test cannot be the same person who has conducted the training. I'll look through it and see if I can find it.

[PanzerIV]

UPDATE:

Anyway I was able to speak to the Director, A.K Bhardwaj today (yep, almost 2 weeks after this bull**** began since he was travelling and then wasn't there during public hours).

Turns out that there's nothing to be done, so let this be a warning to anyone else. Also, despite the pdf circular Cyril posted, turns out if you now want an IR issue AFTER getting your CPL, you cannot go abroad - you must conduct the training in India.

Also, the flight school I did my recency at is apparently no longer considered recognised by the DGCA. I was told I'd be able to find a list of such schools on the DGCA website. Has anyone seen this list or know where to find it? I find it strange that they wouldn't post it somewhere visible so that prospective pilots can avoid going to these schools.

Hope this helps anyone else who has this peculiar problem.

[zer0_grav]

I am sorry to hear that Panzer IV.

After a Google search I found this

http://www.dgca.nic.in/flyclub/flyclub.pdf

This is seems like only India list, you may be able to do a Google search for any particular country you were looking for.

Good luck and keep us updated

[PanzerIV]

Thanks Zero Grav i had found that list too. In a not very surprising twist, it turns out there is no list of banned/de-recognised foreign flight schools. When I asked Mr. Bhardwaj about it today he said he felt 'insulted'. And after that he refused to talk to me further, which in retrospect is oddly quite funny.

I don't know why he would feel insulted because its a straightforward question and its our right as Indian citizens to question how certain unfavourable decisions come about.

To me, it certainly seems that the DGCA refuses to accept certain schools, but the ideas behind that seems arbitrary.

Thanks for your help.

[byeBIRdy]

heh everybody i have a question ?? how many hours are needed for ir in the last six months from date of application . im an indian cpl holder and i wanted to know .
and in case, of appeals of licensing whom should i contact in dgca ??? i would really appreciated if anyone could tell me .

[eager193fly]

revalidation(headache)

hello fellow aviators,
understanding dgca had been too tough and i have this query regarding IR revalidation:

my licence is endorsed with:
c-172,pa34.
IR was acquired on both aircraft,which got expired 10 months ago.

now i wish to endorse 152 on my licence and also revalidate my IR
for which as per CAR SECTION 7,SERIES B,PART XVIII i shud undergo:

FAM day n night
GFT day n night
emergency
IF 1:30
IR check

now in the above requirements i have already flown all flight except,IF-1:30 hrs n IR TEST 0045 min

Query:If i rather flying in 152 and doing 1:30 n 45 min as stipulated,i directly fly
1 IR TEST on cessna 172,will it revalidate my IR????(AS ALREADY I HAVE 172+FLIGHT RECENCY IS ALSO DONE)
Point bothering me is that,doing recent flying in 152,will make up the recency requirement also for 172??


kindly help

[cyrilroy21]

Recency flying on the 152 you will not revalidate the IR rating on C172

For that you need to do the FAM Flights and GFT flights followed by the IR Check on the C172 itself

Question

Why do you want to renew the IR on C172 when you are getting a new IR on C152 ?

Another note : If you can renew the IR on the Multi then you can exercise the IR privileges on the Single Engine Aircraft itself even if the IR is not endorsed / valid on the Single engine aircraft