Air India a Pax perspective
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air India a Pax perspective
I flew Air India after a gap of almost 10 years. My last flight with them was on the 310 Del - HKG route. I had sworn not to fly them because of the service and the aircraft as well as the "indian standard time departure" due to technical difficulties.
This time around the trip was on a 777 -300 ER DEL-CDG
I was very apprehensive but the timings suited me the best and I needed a direct flight.
I was surprised by the roominess of the aircraft. Was in Y class and the 3-3-3 seating is just excellent. Compared to the EK flights which one seems to need a shoe horn to fit into this was roomy in width and I am sure they had fewer rows so there was excellent leg room. The aircraft for the most part was clean and in good repair. The timings were excellent and the flight both ways bang on time. I would not hesitate to sit in this class of travel for the longer flights.
Now the downsides which in my opinion are one of the main reasons for the downfall of this airline besides the government apathy.
There is no communication from the cockpit whats so ever. The pilots never spoke, did not tell us or inform us when we were landing and most times we figured out we were going to land when we were 5 minutes from touch down and the belt signs would come on.
The cabin crew comprised of 3 categories.
a) The female cabin crew who were mainly in their late 40's and 50's and kept to them selves sitting in first class chatting with non rev staff travel co-workers. Did not even see them both ways the entire trip
b) The middle aged pot bellied been there for 20 years male staff who spent most of their time snoozing or watching movies in J class
c) The young new hires under 25 who were left to do all the work.
Since we saw the c category the most here are my observations
1) Untidy uniforms with no pride.
2) Can barely be comprehended in both hindi or English
3) Please and excuse me do not exist in their vocabulary
4) Service was a chore and getting back to the last row galley or seats to watch a movie was the priority.
There was absolutely a lack of supervision and the young ones will one day become the B category where this entire senior junior attitude exists. Service was patchy the food sucked (more later on this) and the bathrooms were not tided and lacked even soap. No water service at all, no tidying the cabin for landing or taking back head phones or blankets which lay scattered all about, just a thump on your seat back to tell you to straighten it up. Most were still standing around 2 minutes before landing. Considering each was in Paris for about 24 hours all had massive hand bags and suitcases and were zipping out of the aircraft even before passengers.
The food out bound was average, however not the return, there were 2 labels on the hot food and dessert. One label in green had a one year shelf life and the other in orange in french had a 2 day shelf life. I am assuming that Air India lifts its food (since it is all Indian cuisine) from India and it is all frozen and stored at CDG and then re heated and shipped on the flight. The particular food I got was made in Feb 2012 with an expiry of Feb 2013. Did not attempt to eat it.
In summary while the aircraft is good, the timetable excellent a turn around of the airline would entail an attitude adjustment of the crew, better quality standard maintenance and removing those pot bellied idiots who make cuisine and other service including IFE choices. They think as themselves and not as the passengers. Considering both ways 95% of the aircraft were non Indians, giving a choice of only Indian food and mainly Indian IFE is pretty stupid. Union or no union it is the people that are spoiling this airline that the government seems to have given a unlimited budget. The 787 will be a good product for them, the crew will ruin it as all the oldies will fight for it since all the "good" shopping routes will be on it. the next time they threaten a strike i say fire the lot of them. There was not one I saw that I would touch with a barge pole to hire in my company.
It was interesting to see the amount of designer bags, shoes and clothes in first class with the non rev passengers and even better to see them breezing thru customs with a wink!!
That said will buy my pizza on the ground before and fly them for the seats. Will take my own IFE on board and soap and toilet paper.
This time around the trip was on a 777 -300 ER DEL-CDG
I was very apprehensive but the timings suited me the best and I needed a direct flight.
I was surprised by the roominess of the aircraft. Was in Y class and the 3-3-3 seating is just excellent. Compared to the EK flights which one seems to need a shoe horn to fit into this was roomy in width and I am sure they had fewer rows so there was excellent leg room. The aircraft for the most part was clean and in good repair. The timings were excellent and the flight both ways bang on time. I would not hesitate to sit in this class of travel for the longer flights.
Now the downsides which in my opinion are one of the main reasons for the downfall of this airline besides the government apathy.
There is no communication from the cockpit whats so ever. The pilots never spoke, did not tell us or inform us when we were landing and most times we figured out we were going to land when we were 5 minutes from touch down and the belt signs would come on.
The cabin crew comprised of 3 categories.
a) The female cabin crew who were mainly in their late 40's and 50's and kept to them selves sitting in first class chatting with non rev staff travel co-workers. Did not even see them both ways the entire trip
b) The middle aged pot bellied been there for 20 years male staff who spent most of their time snoozing or watching movies in J class
c) The young new hires under 25 who were left to do all the work.
Since we saw the c category the most here are my observations
1) Untidy uniforms with no pride.
2) Can barely be comprehended in both hindi or English
3) Please and excuse me do not exist in their vocabulary
4) Service was a chore and getting back to the last row galley or seats to watch a movie was the priority.
There was absolutely a lack of supervision and the young ones will one day become the B category where this entire senior junior attitude exists. Service was patchy the food sucked (more later on this) and the bathrooms were not tided and lacked even soap. No water service at all, no tidying the cabin for landing or taking back head phones or blankets which lay scattered all about, just a thump on your seat back to tell you to straighten it up. Most were still standing around 2 minutes before landing. Considering each was in Paris for about 24 hours all had massive hand bags and suitcases and were zipping out of the aircraft even before passengers.
The food out bound was average, however not the return, there were 2 labels on the hot food and dessert. One label in green had a one year shelf life and the other in orange in french had a 2 day shelf life. I am assuming that Air India lifts its food (since it is all Indian cuisine) from India and it is all frozen and stored at CDG and then re heated and shipped on the flight. The particular food I got was made in Feb 2012 with an expiry of Feb 2013. Did not attempt to eat it.
In summary while the aircraft is good, the timetable excellent a turn around of the airline would entail an attitude adjustment of the crew, better quality standard maintenance and removing those pot bellied idiots who make cuisine and other service including IFE choices. They think as themselves and not as the passengers. Considering both ways 95% of the aircraft were non Indians, giving a choice of only Indian food and mainly Indian IFE is pretty stupid. Union or no union it is the people that are spoiling this airline that the government seems to have given a unlimited budget. The 787 will be a good product for them, the crew will ruin it as all the oldies will fight for it since all the "good" shopping routes will be on it. the next time they threaten a strike i say fire the lot of them. There was not one I saw that I would touch with a barge pole to hire in my company.
It was interesting to see the amount of designer bags, shoes and clothes in first class with the non rev passengers and even better to see them breezing thru customs with a wink!!
That said will buy my pizza on the ground before and fly them for the seats. Will take my own IFE on board and soap and toilet paper.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: LSZA & EGWU
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Considering both ways 95% of the aircraft were non Indians, giving a choice of only Indian food and mainly Indian IFE is pretty stupid. Union or no union it is the people that are spoiling this airline that the government seems to have given a unlimited budget.
Even LX have the same approach to in-flight catering - no Swiss food.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Victor Inox: LX and LH as well as BA usually are stuffed to the gills with Indians transiting thru Europe. I think they need to carry a choice for sure, however on a point to Point flight i think it is stupid not to have a more neutral food or at least on the way back for crying out loud. This is also compounded by the fact that it seems to ensure Indian food they were airlifting meals one year at a time from India
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: LSZA & EGWU
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wannabe Flyer:
Your point is valid. However, I can remember the days when an airline did more than carry your ass from A to B. It also imparted a feeling for the country whose flag it was carrying, something that would be reflected in the food and wine selection (yes, even in Economy, once upon a time).
On BA to or from India, I don't want a curry puff - I would prefer a sausage roll. Simples.
Your point is valid. However, I can remember the days when an airline did more than carry your ass from A to B. It also imparted a feeling for the country whose flag it was carrying, something that would be reflected in the food and wine selection (yes, even in Economy, once upon a time).
On BA to or from India, I don't want a curry puff - I would prefer a sausage roll. Simples.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have to agree with Wannabe.I had the "privilege" of travelling to and from India by Air India and American Airlines in quick succession.I was able to make comparisons. Air India (747-400) was on time coming and going,food was good and ground and in flight service was apalling.A dirty little curtain separated Economy and Business class with a handwritten notice pinned on saying "Do Not Enter".The senior cabin staff did very little but were more polite in their infrequent interaction.The new hires were rude and superior,especially to passengers of Indian origin.
Fast forward to AA.Delayed service coming and going. Triple 7.Cramped as hell and food was "faux Indian" and horrible.Cabin staff was civil but nothing beyond that.IFE system had to be reset multiple times so I ended up watching "The Lincoln Lawyer" several times from the beginning just to watch the last few minutes of the movie!!
Bottom line, airline travel is no longer what it used to be.Blame the staff, the management or the cut throat competition and the ever present threat of bankruptcy.
Internally, we flew Jet Airways a lot.Excellent food,high quality staff on ground and in the air and on time performance each and every time ( this was August last year,monsoons were on infull swing).The one flight we booked on Kingfisher was cancelled at the last momnet!
Moreover, I found that in comparison to the landings in the US, the landings in India were way softer and smoother. An airline pilot friend told me that the G loading on landing is closely monitored on the FDM, with pretty severe consequences if you exceed a certain figure (1.4?).Hence the pilots there train to float a little rather than drop it down.Not debating the merits of one form of landing versus another just making an abservation.
My family and I have made a conscious decision to put off travel abroad as long as possible in the future.Airlines and airliners are supposed to bring family and friends together.They end up having the exact opposite effect.
Alt3.
Fast forward to AA.Delayed service coming and going. Triple 7.Cramped as hell and food was "faux Indian" and horrible.Cabin staff was civil but nothing beyond that.IFE system had to be reset multiple times so I ended up watching "The Lincoln Lawyer" several times from the beginning just to watch the last few minutes of the movie!!
Bottom line, airline travel is no longer what it used to be.Blame the staff, the management or the cut throat competition and the ever present threat of bankruptcy.
Internally, we flew Jet Airways a lot.Excellent food,high quality staff on ground and in the air and on time performance each and every time ( this was August last year,monsoons were on infull swing).The one flight we booked on Kingfisher was cancelled at the last momnet!
Moreover, I found that in comparison to the landings in the US, the landings in India were way softer and smoother. An airline pilot friend told me that the G loading on landing is closely monitored on the FDM, with pretty severe consequences if you exceed a certain figure (1.4?).Hence the pilots there train to float a little rather than drop it down.Not debating the merits of one form of landing versus another just making an abservation.
My family and I have made a conscious decision to put off travel abroad as long as possible in the future.Airlines and airliners are supposed to bring family and friends together.They end up having the exact opposite effect.
Alt3.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An airline pilot friend told me that the G loading on landing is closely monitored on the FDM, with pretty severe consequences if you exceed a certain figure (1.4?).Hence the pilots there train to float a little rather than drop it down.Not debating the merits of one form of landing versus another just making an abservation.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AI Strike
Government threatens to shut Air India international flights if pilots go on strike - The Times of India
Absolutely no disregard. As stated in my previous posts half the problem are the staff on this airline.
I love their logic
"An IPG member said they were looking to secure their future as the B-787 was ordered for their career progression. "If half of those planes go to IA pilots, then our career progression gets stuck. "
So lets see my tax money was spent to by dream liners for pilots and not for upgrading and ensuring the growth of an airline on dole. Sorry mate the aircraft were not ordered for your career progression but the progression of the airline.
Absolutely no disregard. As stated in my previous posts half the problem are the staff on this airline.
I love their logic
"An IPG member said they were looking to secure their future as the B-787 was ordered for their career progression. "If half of those planes go to IA pilots, then our career progression gets stuck. "
So lets see my tax money was spent to by dream liners for pilots and not for upgrading and ensuring the growth of an airline on dole. Sorry mate the aircraft were not ordered for your career progression but the progression of the airline.
.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: delhi
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
State owned airlines are dinosaurs in this day and age; a relic of the socialist era.
Also, Unions and Strikes are a curse that has ruined our best enterprises for decades.
Everyone knows the only real solution is to sell off the airline to the highest bidder and as a sweetener, write off the debt so that they can start with a clean slate.
When the company is run for profit like it should be, all the other problems with staff, mismanagement, poor service will get fixed. the redundant and non performing people who have enjoyed a free ride will know where they stand.
A lot of people still cling to the argument that Air India is a national asset and should be kept on life support for ever. However, I for one am tired of my tax money being used to pay inflated salaries to the worst staff (pilots+cabin crew+ground staff, all included) who are running AI like their personal cash cow; besides free joyrides for high ranking govt officials.
However, we all know that we have no say in this and the one who pays the bill (taxpayer) will keep getting scr**ed.
Also, Unions and Strikes are a curse that has ruined our best enterprises for decades.
Everyone knows the only real solution is to sell off the airline to the highest bidder and as a sweetener, write off the debt so that they can start with a clean slate.
When the company is run for profit like it should be, all the other problems with staff, mismanagement, poor service will get fixed. the redundant and non performing people who have enjoyed a free ride will know where they stand.
A lot of people still cling to the argument that Air India is a national asset and should be kept on life support for ever. However, I for one am tired of my tax money being used to pay inflated salaries to the worst staff (pilots+cabin crew+ground staff, all included) who are running AI like their personal cash cow; besides free joyrides for high ranking govt officials.
However, we all know that we have no say in this and the one who pays the bill (taxpayer) will keep getting scr**ed.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Blue Planet
Age: 44
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yesterday, the aviation minister himself said on national TV that the govt does not have the wherewithal to be in the service industry and run an airline efficiently, due to its work culture.(read inefficiency of staff across the board).
The govt is also averse to pumping in more money if the set performance parameters are not met. Will they ever be? Why does not the govt simply sell this behemoth and cut tax payer losses, for AI will never be able to compete with the private sector airlines.
AI is no longer a national asset but is a national shame.
Aeronotix
The govt is also averse to pumping in more money if the set performance parameters are not met. Will they ever be? Why does not the govt simply sell this behemoth and cut tax payer losses, for AI will never be able to compete with the private sector airlines.
AI is no longer a national asset but is a national shame.
Aeronotix
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Selling off this airline is simpler said than done. As the Aviation minister rightly said, in order to sell this airline of one has to first make it buyable. As on todays date there is only one reason why no one would want to buy this airline.... the employees.
let me explain
If one were to buy this airline and make it more efficient they would need to complete the merger which was left half baked (primarily due to employee resistance) and then get rid of redundant jobs. This would mean strikes and politicians blocking roads. Look at what happened when Jet tried to lay off people and that was a private airline and they could not. Second they would have to put in performance appraisals and make these inefficient employees sign of on job performance. This is impossible. Third with the amount of SC/ST quota as well as politician recommended people on board, the would run afoul on equal opportunities on SC/ST and political pundits on others
Last but not the least this sell off would mean all IAS, IFS and politicos would now need to fly economy, account for free travel and loose a valuable perk.
in a nut shell take th experience of every non profitable PSU sold off and all that the buyer managed to do is close it down and use infrastructure but not product/brand or people.
Therefore in my opinion Jet should buy it out and let it spiral downwards with no new aircraft, new hires or new routes and slowly kill the airline till there are no jobs left there. Post that sell the name for Rs 1 to Gopinath and enjoy the monopoly it has created. And what about the 70,000 employees??? Well your guess is as good as mine if Jet has the money
let me explain
If one were to buy this airline and make it more efficient they would need to complete the merger which was left half baked (primarily due to employee resistance) and then get rid of redundant jobs. This would mean strikes and politicians blocking roads. Look at what happened when Jet tried to lay off people and that was a private airline and they could not. Second they would have to put in performance appraisals and make these inefficient employees sign of on job performance. This is impossible. Third with the amount of SC/ST quota as well as politician recommended people on board, the would run afoul on equal opportunities on SC/ST and political pundits on others
Last but not the least this sell off would mean all IAS, IFS and politicos would now need to fly economy, account for free travel and loose a valuable perk.
in a nut shell take th experience of every non profitable PSU sold off and all that the buyer managed to do is close it down and use infrastructure but not product/brand or people.
Therefore in my opinion Jet should buy it out and let it spiral downwards with no new aircraft, new hires or new routes and slowly kill the airline till there are no jobs left there. Post that sell the name for Rs 1 to Gopinath and enjoy the monopoly it has created. And what about the 70,000 employees??? Well your guess is as good as mine if Jet has the money
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: WIDE ASIA
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I completely agree with you wannabe flyer. The more it goes on the Maharaja will be creating losses. But They will never shut down since the Bureaucrats will never allow to miss their freebies. The employees (Iam not telling fully but a vast majority) who has been working in a holiday mood will never be able to get into a rigorous Private working environment. Also the 30% of the employees who came into board through political recommendations will put pressure on the politicians for the money they have paid. Result Blockades & strikes across the country.
Nobody can take over this python because of various reasons. few are
1. The Huge Accumulated & cumulative losses which comes around 50,000 crores.
2. The assets are less than 25 % of the above.
3. The Extremely high staff ratio where again the Compensation will be huge if they want to sack few.
4. The Issue with the Unskilled/Untrained/Attitude less Staffs and the Various political Associations which are directly linked to political parties.
5. The outstanding agreements with various manufacturers & Salary dues from the past 6 months.
Now Think if you are a buyer will you put your hands into fire knowing that you will burn your entire hand....???
Regards
Blackbird sr72
Nobody can take over this python because of various reasons. few are
1. The Huge Accumulated & cumulative losses which comes around 50,000 crores.
2. The assets are less than 25 % of the above.
3. The Extremely high staff ratio where again the Compensation will be huge if they want to sack few.
4. The Issue with the Unskilled/Untrained/Attitude less Staffs and the Various political Associations which are directly linked to political parties.
5. The outstanding agreements with various manufacturers & Salary dues from the past 6 months.
Now Think if you are a buyer will you put your hands into fire knowing that you will burn your entire hand....???
Regards
Blackbird sr72
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Therefore it is easier for the government to let it bleed to death and not do anything to support it. Let it be a stale mate and stop talking.
From a customer point of view if all stop flying it then it will die a faster and more painful death from lack of revenue.
In the above scenario the government will save Rs 30,000 crs and accumulated losses can be slugged out in the painfully slow court system.
From a customer point of view if all stop flying it then it will die a faster and more painful death from lack of revenue.
In the above scenario the government will save Rs 30,000 crs and accumulated losses can be slugged out in the painfully slow court system.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: N571
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lost the Plot
Simply put, the "sick" AI pilots have(had) lost the plot.
2nd stupid agitation which has led IPG to be dercognized for the 2nd time.
The Govt needs to kick ass and stop this nonsense about the "security"of govt jobs, for once and for all.
2nd stupid agitation which has led IPG to be dercognized for the 2nd time.
The Govt needs to kick ass and stop this nonsense about the "security"of govt jobs, for once and for all.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kingfisher pilots start calling in sick, may not fly from tonight
Not good at all for the aviation sector here. Time for all to wake up and smell the subsidy they are giving and the taxes they are charging.
Before we know it there will be a Jet Monopoly and we will be paying thru our nose!
Not good at all for the aviation sector here. Time for all to wake up and smell the subsidy they are giving and the taxes they are charging.
Before we know it there will be a Jet Monopoly and we will be paying thru our nose!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cochin VOCI , India
Age: 35
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ICPA offers help to Air India to keep its international fleet afloat
ICPA offers help to Air India to keep its international fleet afloat : India News - India Today
ICPA offers help to Air India to keep its international fleet afloat : India News - India Today
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cochin VOCI , India
Age: 35
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While I am quite surprised that the AI pilots could defy a Court Order............ but it looks like the Supreme Court has decided not to interfere in the issue......
Air India deadlock: Supreme Court refuses to entertain a contempt of court application against pilots
Air India deadlock: Supreme Court refuses to entertain a contempt of court application against pilots
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Playing Golf!
Age: 46
Posts: 1,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys guys calm down... Indian Aviation will be just fine.
You have a strong IndiGo covering the domestic market, and for those needing to travel further overseas you can travel on the real flag carrier of India EK.
Your sure to get better service than on AI or 9W
You have a strong IndiGo covering the domestic market, and for those needing to travel further overseas you can travel on the real flag carrier of India EK.
Your sure to get better service than on AI or 9W
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PT6A
I strongly disagree with you!
The other National Carrier EK service standards have dropped and in a few years might just be like AI.
I strongly disagree with you!
The other National Carrier EK service standards have dropped and in a few years might just be like AI.