KAL: Why are they ALWAYS advertising for pilots?
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Now haejangkuk, pipe down will ya...KAL is recruiting more and more expats. Now whose fault is it? It's because a lot of Korean pilots lack the experience and sophistication in international airline operations! If you are honest; you will cringe with embarassment at the ATC and R/T blunders Korean pilots make all over the show. Pure luck can only go so far!
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Why is Korean always advertising?
Too many planes on order. A management team that has no respect for it's employees, & a talentless Korean workforce.
These guys are so useless, I will be employed forever. They can't fly &
can't talk. I've got parrots at home with better communication skills. Can
fly better too.
Management constantly putting out memos, for pilots to improve on the radios. They can pump out memos every 5 minutes, won't help, when their
local pilots can't understand English. Enabling these guys to pass the English test by cheating, has backfired.
Haejangkuk, you'll be an FO forever. Still can't do a visual approach.
Too many planes on order. A management team that has no respect for it's employees, & a talentless Korean workforce.
These guys are so useless, I will be employed forever. They can't fly &
can't talk. I've got parrots at home with better communication skills. Can
fly better too.
Management constantly putting out memos, for pilots to improve on the radios. They can pump out memos every 5 minutes, won't help, when their
local pilots can't understand English. Enabling these guys to pass the English test by cheating, has backfired.
Haejangkuk, you'll be an FO forever. Still can't do a visual approach.
I live and work in Asia and sorry but KAL are the stand-out worst for RT standards and lack of aeronautical professionalism.
Descending from 35000ft at 250kts, changing frequency and immediately transmitting - blocking other aircraft mid-transmission. Repeatedly misunderstanding ATC and thus needing clarification. And until recently, crashing aircraft all over the place.
I have many friends who have worked or still work there and they are decent, level-headed types. To a man they all relate stories of an awful culture of failure, unfair treatment of expats, hypocrisy when it comes to flying skill assessment and overall lack of workplace friendliness.
That you can resign from a job after acceptance by KAL only to be terminated for whatever reason they may see fit is appalling.
The fact that haejangkuk could say "KAL should have no more than 10% expats but now we just have too many". is a perfect illustration of why there are problems at KAL. Haejangkuk might also want to have a discussion with KAL's insurers and ask about the requirements for expats, how this situation arose in the first place and what has been done to remedy the culture within KAL that led to so many fatal accidents.
These points and many others would appear to answer the original question of " "KAL: Why are they ALWAYS advertising for pilots?"
Descending from 35000ft at 250kts, changing frequency and immediately transmitting - blocking other aircraft mid-transmission. Repeatedly misunderstanding ATC and thus needing clarification. And until recently, crashing aircraft all over the place.
I have many friends who have worked or still work there and they are decent, level-headed types. To a man they all relate stories of an awful culture of failure, unfair treatment of expats, hypocrisy when it comes to flying skill assessment and overall lack of workplace friendliness.
That you can resign from a job after acceptance by KAL only to be terminated for whatever reason they may see fit is appalling.
The fact that haejangkuk could say "KAL should have no more than 10% expats but now we just have too many". is a perfect illustration of why there are problems at KAL. Haejangkuk might also want to have a discussion with KAL's insurers and ask about the requirements for expats, how this situation arose in the first place and what has been done to remedy the culture within KAL that led to so many fatal accidents.
These points and many others would appear to answer the original question of " "KAL: Why are they ALWAYS advertising for pilots?"
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Having been here only a short time, I can say that as far as operators are concerned, KAL pilots (locals, not foreigners) are questionable at best. There are exceptions to every rule, I've flown with a few that have been fine. But, as has been stated here, their command of the English language together with awful ATC communications has recently come to be a major issue. .. And that last 100 feet on approach .. GEEZ ..
Kimcheejones
Kimcheejones
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Some insiders on the 7th floor OC intimated that rk would have been unceremoniously sacked because of a landing episode some 4 months ago. Apparently on an F/O's handling sector from ZGGG to RKSI, the F/O's final approach became unstabilized and landing was aborted. Another approach by the F/O again and another waived landing ensued with the heroic rk assuming FULL COMMAND to a final successful landing at close to minimum fuel. rk claimed to have recorded the whole episode on his i-phone for the benefit of the company admin pilots. The company admin management pilots declined to hear or view the i-phone recording but the relevant depts did analyzed the QAR/FOQA items; the question was why did rk let the F/O get into situations WHERE HE HAD TO USE HIS SO SUPERIOR SKILLS to effect a safe landing close to minimum fuel... the conclusion from KCASA advisers was it wasn't that heroic after all!
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Haejangkuk, you'll be an FO forever. Still can't do a visual approach.
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Payrate
There is no direct amount what the locals make. It is a package they get and the numbers circulating on the 7th floor are varying but there are some calculations that the MUC is lower for one ExPat Pilot the a Korean National.
The MUC does not get: Subsidised housing if he wishes, child education support, pension contribution and health insurance with a permanent contract.
The National Pilots end the employment with the 55th Birthday, thereafter they going on contract and get a new employ number.
There are not enough applicants generated within Korea for KAL, so even if Haejangkuk wishes hardly there are just not enough Koreans willing to become a pilot and fly the Airplanes who are on the tarmac. The praised Airforce, Army and Navy had recently extended the minimum time by 3 years so they keep theire Pilots longer and they are not released to the market. Due to KAL´s Management they prefer Asiana in the meantime and then JejuAir and KAL is now the last on the list.
Haejangkuk should look into the mirror: Sachon is a Airbase, how did your Seniors got into KAL in the 90´s? before Greenberg was there? Buddy system worked out well. Some of those are now sitting in key position and defend now morning calm, no changes!
So the number a Expat Captain is making is about 9.200 $ for a B737 Capt, 10.700 $ and 12.700 $ for a B747 / 777 Captain after Korean Taxes. He will get a per diem subject to the destination and can generate average 800 $ per month on top of that.
The contract is not honored and you are not paid as it states in the contract and if you complaint to your agent then he just says that is the way it is. The 4 tickets per year are also not confirmed, they are on STBY base only, difficult with the family whilst on vaccation.
Your money on time, your day´s off secure, the rest you have to put up with, a hostlle environment where you can be sacked every minute.
The MUC does not get: Subsidised housing if he wishes, child education support, pension contribution and health insurance with a permanent contract.
The National Pilots end the employment with the 55th Birthday, thereafter they going on contract and get a new employ number.
There are not enough applicants generated within Korea for KAL, so even if Haejangkuk wishes hardly there are just not enough Koreans willing to become a pilot and fly the Airplanes who are on the tarmac. The praised Airforce, Army and Navy had recently extended the minimum time by 3 years so they keep theire Pilots longer and they are not released to the market. Due to KAL´s Management they prefer Asiana in the meantime and then JejuAir and KAL is now the last on the list.
Haejangkuk should look into the mirror: Sachon is a Airbase, how did your Seniors got into KAL in the 90´s? before Greenberg was there? Buddy system worked out well. Some of those are now sitting in key position and defend now morning calm, no changes!
So the number a Expat Captain is making is about 9.200 $ for a B737 Capt, 10.700 $ and 12.700 $ for a B747 / 777 Captain after Korean Taxes. He will get a per diem subject to the destination and can generate average 800 $ per month on top of that.
The contract is not honored and you are not paid as it states in the contract and if you complaint to your agent then he just says that is the way it is. The 4 tickets per year are also not confirmed, they are on STBY base only, difficult with the family whilst on vaccation.
Your money on time, your day´s off secure, the rest you have to put up with, a hostlle environment where you can be sacked every minute.
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WOW ...
Why are you guys there ?
Why are you guys there ?
Not for long I guess. EK has reverted to earlier " friendlier " productive practices and a lot of ex-EK will be bailing out back to the sandpit.
KAL is attractive for a while when all goes nice and dandy. Once you get sucked into their system and find yourself so constricted in an ever insecure world, you will be dying to bail out. The Korean system is a slave driving type bent on punitive measures to maintain a semblance of safe, orderly operations. Many pilots find this at great costs once the fall afoul of the cookbook system of flying.
Over the past 2 years, there were about 4-5 suicides amongst the cabin crew due the master-slave punitive system of the management to achieve results. Words go around about cabin crewmembers forced to voluntarily buy duty free items to achieve the required quota of sales. Operatios despatch office shifted to the remote air side of the airport leading to ridiculous commuting to and fro prior to flight; all to satisfy the egos of the overbearing chairman and his equally insufferale daughter.
Haejungkik will soon get his wish of seeing dwindling numbers of expats.
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Haejungkuk has got it right up to a tee. The way the flight ops vp's adviser did a runner really shows what kind of riff raffs our inept flight admin recruited into the company. Absolutely no class; not one who can claim to be in the big league. Sadly the people mr khan recruited into the company are exactly of this ilk, many with fictional hours and experience making to the big league clearing through the hoops in collusion with expat lcps and alteon checkers. Many can be seen downloading company materials by the tons into their flash drives to be used to con other startup companies or lesser known carriers so they can get into management positions. I am sure mr khan is going to share a lot of good stuff misappropriated from our tech services with his new employers, I hope our inept company admin keep tabs on this.
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Sad, so sad it has to be this way. The fact is that all the foreigners in Korean are just as protective of their jobs when the shoe is on the other foot! The ranting Brits, Americans, Canadians, ect. I've seen and heard it all. I do not side with anyone. The reason Korean hires foreign pilots is because there are not enough Koreans. Even the Koreans who wish to train as pilots are made to pay enormous sums of money, with poor chances of joining the airlines. This pprune site is overwhelmingly Western so I am pleased to see others joining in.
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Tailstrike?
... just off the topic and adding to the wishes that the Korean "Creme de la Creme" Pilots are flying without ExPats on the Fleet: A380 Tailstrike in NRT?? Is that true? Just of the Forum a few minutes ago.
If that is true then the next "close call" is waiting again, I remember a year there where 8 in one season. Then the continues B777 mishaps at NRT.
Good that Admiral Shin and Haejangkuk get the wishes grantet. R.Khan left, you call him what ? What is with the many who resign, pay either 5.000 $ or wait 90 days? not too many do a runner. People leave honest and silent.
The recruitment has now two roundups per month. Just wonder when they learn it.....
Fly safe and land happy.
NG
By the way... I have just two more patterns to go.... out as well then.
If that is true then the next "close call" is waiting again, I remember a year there where 8 in one season. Then the continues B777 mishaps at NRT.
Good that Admiral Shin and Haejangkuk get the wishes grantet. R.Khan left, you call him what ? What is with the many who resign, pay either 5.000 $ or wait 90 days? not too many do a runner. People leave honest and silent.
The recruitment has now two roundups per month. Just wonder when they learn it.....
Fly safe and land happy.
NG
By the way... I have just two more patterns to go.... out as well then.
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The A380 incident in NRT was an engine pod strike. Here's the link:
Incident: Korean A388 at Tokyo on Jul 21st 2011, engine pod strike
A few of the posters here seem to think that Foreign Captains/FO's at KAL have "colluded" with the Sim instructors to get qualified. What utter nonsense. And to suggest that any airline in the world would even consider KAL's Operational info to "start up" or support there own operation is enough to make me laugh out loud. KAL has a dismal reputation known round the world. These comments lend more evidence that lateral thought does not come easy for these boys.
Kimcheejones
Incident: Korean A388 at Tokyo on Jul 21st 2011, engine pod strike
A few of the posters here seem to think that Foreign Captains/FO's at KAL have "colluded" with the Sim instructors to get qualified. What utter nonsense. And to suggest that any airline in the world would even consider KAL's Operational info to "start up" or support there own operation is enough to make me laugh out loud. KAL has a dismal reputation known round the world. These comments lend more evidence that lateral thought does not come easy for these boys.
Kimcheejones
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I have been reading pprune for a number of years and find the posts and threads on Korean Air pretty interesting. Some years ago I had done some external audits on Korean Air and I am very disturbed at the amount of disinformation and misinformation posted on the various aviation chat forum on KAL. During my time there, even the expats there had no real understanding of the airline they work for! Maybe this is a deliberate strategy of the Korean management but I find expat pilots in Korean Air largely ignorant of the assets KAL has available for all the pilots. I noticed expat pilots mouthing off nonsensical negatives but had no idea that they did not know how to benefit from all the good things KAL has. It's just herd mentality and the one lambasting their employer the loudest gets the biggest cheers at the pubs and crew rooms. The one making the most derogatory remarks about their Korean colleagues is made the hero of the day. Totally juvenile if not infantile!
In the course of my audit work there I found KAL had been developing a very good system. Their technical expertise as demonstrated by their flight ops technical services is at par with many leading airlines. The sad thing is the implementation in daily line operations. There is utter disconnect; assets and expertise not utilised for beneficial operational use. Most of their local pilots lack that " something " which can help them integrate the technical expertise the company passed on to them into their professional operations. There are several Korean pilots who do but somehow they are unable to inspire or motivate their fellow bethren to learn from them.
I suspect some start ups or even third world carriers can largely benefit from the materials KAL has. I have done audits on some national carriers with nothing close to KAL's technical capabilities.
I have to agree with some Korean posters' contention that their recruitment department had done an abysmal job in recruiting quite a number of riff raffs. A couple of audit flights with some KAL expats were real eye openers and these expats were from the first world to boot!
Space and time do not allow me to expand on the above but suffice to say the loads of disinformation spouted by misguided or disgruntled individuals do not do the expat pilot force in KAL any favors.
In the course of my audit work there I found KAL had been developing a very good system. Their technical expertise as demonstrated by their flight ops technical services is at par with many leading airlines. The sad thing is the implementation in daily line operations. There is utter disconnect; assets and expertise not utilised for beneficial operational use. Most of their local pilots lack that " something " which can help them integrate the technical expertise the company passed on to them into their professional operations. There are several Korean pilots who do but somehow they are unable to inspire or motivate their fellow bethren to learn from them.
I suspect some start ups or even third world carriers can largely benefit from the materials KAL has. I have done audits on some national carriers with nothing close to KAL's technical capabilities.
I have to agree with some Korean posters' contention that their recruitment department had done an abysmal job in recruiting quite a number of riff raffs. A couple of audit flights with some KAL expats were real eye openers and these expats were from the first world to boot!
Space and time do not allow me to expand on the above but suffice to say the loads of disinformation spouted by misguided or disgruntled individuals do not do the expat pilot force in KAL any favors.