The woman pilot in command of Indigo, landed the plane on its fragile nose wheel
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quite surprised at this. The f/o in question used to be our AME at Alliance Air, and then went on to be an AME on 320s for Kingfisher & Indigo before joining the Indigo Cadet Program and became a pilot. I think he started flying 3-4 months ago.
Each of them has at least 7-8 years experience with the planes before they actually became pilots. A little strange that they got this hard knock.
Each of them has at least 7-8 years experience with the planes before they actually became pilots. A little strange that they got this hard knock.
I assume the Airbus comment is in relation to the landing law where a small nose down pitch is commanded in the last stages of the flare to make the pilot apply a nose up movement which makes the landing seem more like a conventionally controlled aircraft. I doubt this was a factor as the A320 does feel fairly conventional in pitch in my experience of about 2000 landings on it. I have however, seen a colleague land a 747 nosewheel first and this was due to a combination of factors, the main one being poor technique.
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Give her a break
Happens on a bad day...
But talking about Flare Law, the slight pitch down will become significant if the stick is held loose /left free at flare. That could cause this.
Having said this, The best trained pilots do have Landing accidents.
Nothing little retraining can,t cure..
Give the girl a break..Must be difficult having your name spread all over the press. Consider the impact on her kids n family...
But talking about Flare Law, the slight pitch down will become significant if the stick is held loose /left free at flare. That could cause this.
Having said this, The best trained pilots do have Landing accidents.
Nothing little retraining can,t cure..
Give the girl a break..Must be difficult having your name spread all over the press. Consider the impact on her kids n family...
Not surprised to read this incident after reading other threads on this site.
This one in particular http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...r-captain.html
I'm sorry to say but standby for more and more incidents from Indian Airlines........
Why is this person in charge of a 80 tonne Jet with 160 pax down the back if she doesn't understand the basics of how to land!!
This one in particular http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...r-captain.html
I'm sorry to say but standby for more and more incidents from Indian Airlines........
Why is this person in charge of a 80 tonne Jet with 160 pax down the back if she doesn't understand the basics of how to land!!
Last edited by nitpicker330; 17th Feb 2011 at 00:11.
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Deaf leading the blind...or is it the other way around!
A lot of training capts lacking experience(on Type) themselves.... and in a tearing hurry to become TRIs and TREs.
The whole ball game revolves around experience on type.
And Command training/evaluation is not about testing someones ability to reproduce verbatim line and verse from the "book".... with not too many ideas of how to bring it all together.
The whole ball game revolves around experience on type.
And Command training/evaluation is not about testing someones ability to reproduce verbatim line and verse from the "book".... with not too many ideas of how to bring it all together.
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As far as command goes i am sure there are very very good reasons to have to be age limits in place as also requirements of total hours and mimimum hours on type.
In some places the only thing that is looked at is 'the minimum' required for everything/not necessarily the proficiency
having the ATP is of prime impotance to transfer seats we all know,but proficiency is no less a factor,probably practically of more significance!!
as long as the criteria is being met as far as paperwork is concerned,u r thru.And thats why there are records of sorts...
youngest capt,youngest chk pilot,tri,tre!!
so if its really any achievement as viewed against older capts touching down with NLG. maybe in the latter case she just got older with the same level of proficiency that she got her command with...like someone said...maybe just a bad day!
debate is open
In some places the only thing that is looked at is 'the minimum' required for everything/not necessarily the proficiency
having the ATP is of prime impotance to transfer seats we all know,but proficiency is no less a factor,probably practically of more significance!!
as long as the criteria is being met as far as paperwork is concerned,u r thru.And thats why there are records of sorts...
youngest capt,youngest chk pilot,tri,tre!!
so if its really any achievement as viewed against older capts touching down with NLG. maybe in the latter case she just got older with the same level of proficiency that she got her command with...like someone said...maybe just a bad day!
debate is open
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You are right about that.Becoming a Captain or a good pilot for that matter is not about reading books and learning verbatim.It's about many factors put together.What baffles me in this report is that it seems that she had been consistently repeating the same mistake over time but it went undetected or unreported.Why ?That to me speaks a lot about the airline's monitoring and control procedures.
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While flying the A320 and A321, I've seen lands similar to this just not with the same outcome.
What I noticed, especially with Flap FULL landings, is that some guys upon hitting ground effect at around 10 feet, stick the nose over hard so as not to float and then rotate back the other way for the touchdown. In my opinion, a couple of times we have been close to having a nose gear touchdown. This is most notable with very light loads.
In fact there was an incident that a MALE first officer did this and ended up severely damaging the nose gear to the extent that it had to be replaced.
Final note, WHO GIVES A
IF A WOMAN PILOT DID IT OR NOT??!!
IF the day comes when it is ONLY women pilots bending aircraft, then yes it might be appropriate. However, I have flown with 8 different female captains in my career and NONE of them are anywhere near the top of my 'Hell if I'll fly with him/her" list.
And no, I'm not female. Now grow the up!
What I noticed, especially with Flap FULL landings, is that some guys upon hitting ground effect at around 10 feet, stick the nose over hard so as not to float and then rotate back the other way for the touchdown. In my opinion, a couple of times we have been close to having a nose gear touchdown. This is most notable with very light loads.
In fact there was an incident that a MALE first officer did this and ended up severely damaging the nose gear to the extent that it had to be replaced.
Final note, WHO GIVES A
IF A WOMAN PILOT DID IT OR NOT??!!IF the day comes when it is ONLY women pilots bending aircraft, then yes it might be appropriate. However, I have flown with 8 different female captains in my career and NONE of them are anywhere near the top of my 'Hell if I'll fly with him/her" list.
And no, I'm not female. Now grow the
up!
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a little wing wagle does it nicely
if you find yourself floating just a few inches off the ground(after thrust lever retard) try putting one wing down(into wind preferably...and you might need opposite rudder to continue tracking the centreline) it works like a charm ,and much better than a stick forward de-rotate.
For those of you likley to take umburage please refer to a/c pitch vs bank graph for ground contact(a lot of bank before something other than the main wheels touch ground)
And no dont try this at circuit altitude...becase that could lead to a spin in a degraded control law....and you are unlikely to be familiar as to how to recover from that situation
For those of you likley to take umburage please refer to a/c pitch vs bank graph for ground contact(a lot of bank before something other than the main wheels touch ground)
And no dont try this at circuit altitude...becase that could lead to a spin in a degraded control law....and you are unlikely to be familiar as to how to recover from that situation
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LOL!
First thing that came to my mind after reading this news
Passenger refuses to fly with woman pilot - Trends News - IBNLive
Passenger refuses to fly with woman pilot - Trends News - IBNLive
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Apparently, the passengers are becoming wiser….
New Delhi, Feb 25 (PTI) A Mumbai-bound IndiGo flight was delayed by more than one and half hours first due to fog and then by a passenger who refused to fly on a plane being piloted by a woman.
Indigo flight 6E 179, which was supposed to depart at around 8 AM, could not take off due to fog.
And when the weather cleared and the plane was about to take off, a middle-aged man, Pramod Ambalekar objected to the flight being commandeered by a woman, airport sources said.
He called the airhostesses and objected to a woman pilot. The man relented only after he was told that he would be taken off the plane with his check-in baggage.
According to sources, the man had a fight with his wife and so objected to a woman pilot flying an aircraft.
The airline, in a statement, said the passenger flying by 6E 179 was asked to deboard by the airline security staff after he "misbehaved and showed disrespect to our crew members".
New Delhi, Feb 25 (PTI) A Mumbai-bound IndiGo flight was delayed by more than one and half hours first due to fog and then by a passenger who refused to fly on a plane being piloted by a woman.
Indigo flight 6E 179, which was supposed to depart at around 8 AM, could not take off due to fog.
And when the weather cleared and the plane was about to take off, a middle-aged man, Pramod Ambalekar objected to the flight being commandeered by a woman, airport sources said.
He called the airhostesses and objected to a woman pilot. The man relented only after he was told that he would be taken off the plane with his check-in baggage.
According to sources, the man had a fight with his wife and so objected to a woman pilot flying an aircraft.
The airline, in a statement, said the passenger flying by 6E 179 was asked to deboard by the airline security staff after he "misbehaved and showed disrespect to our crew members".
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Lady With The Best Landing
At the end of the day all this summarizes to one thing, "AGE FACTOR"
A commander of an a/c should be not only given to a person with alot of hours and knowledge, they also have to consider the age also because if you take a look at all the ridiculous incidents it all has to to do with captains who are very young at age which inversely effects the what they do in immediate situations....because @ the end of the day being pilots .... AGE=WISDOM=RIGHT DECISION
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IndiGo upgrade policy is as follows: ATPL + Pulse = Upgrade. This is the case in most new Indian carriers I suspect. This Captain is not the weakest in the ranks, so I'm afraid there will be quite a few of these incidents to come in the near future. There is no substitute for experience.
A few steel girders for extra bracing on the nose gear, and presto....problem solved.
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poker pilot, I disagree, it is to do with TRAINING more than the AGE FACTOR. I never ever landed nose gear down first, not even in my first few flights. My instructor scared the hell out of me, said there would not be a second flight with him if I ever did that.