Chinese Private Airlines ( Juneyao and Spring)
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Chinese Private Airlines ( Juneyao and Spring)
There are very few people happy to any of these airlines.
Spring: They have about 16 expats, they are sent to hotels that you would not put your dog in it.
The pay is good but your are at risk. If you are from the USA, their failure rate is 100% the first time. One guy passed on his second attempt.
They fired a few and some quit, that leaves them to about 11 or so and they are still hring. If you have 20000 hours be prepared for a 300 hours line indoc of which half will be done on the comfort of the jump seat. They will give you the short leg and the long ones and delays you will be seating on the observer seat.
They don't de-ice , well they use a monkey system, I saw it myself taxiing by, two guys operating a hand pump. The hold over time can not be more than 4 to 15 minutes and they probably took half a hours to do the wings. They skipped the tails as I watched them taking off.
I am told that if you quit or fail, you lose your money , your reputation and a chance at working for a decent airline. The main foreign agency is areopersonnalglobal. Never heard of them personnally, but the guys I met in Shanghai say its a father and son chop with very little reach who will do anything to save their contract. You are on your own.
Not worth it guys.
Juneyao; It has to be the worst of the pack, not even VOR holding is representing them anymore. No one is happy and they will have a hard time finding expat pilots in the future.
There were many stories about them, everyone lost touching them, from agencies to pilots. China is starting to have a very bad reputation at handling its expats. These two are not helping .
I wanted to write on them since no one seemed to care...
Spring: They have about 16 expats, they are sent to hotels that you would not put your dog in it.
The pay is good but your are at risk. If you are from the USA, their failure rate is 100% the first time. One guy passed on his second attempt.
They fired a few and some quit, that leaves them to about 11 or so and they are still hring. If you have 20000 hours be prepared for a 300 hours line indoc of which half will be done on the comfort of the jump seat. They will give you the short leg and the long ones and delays you will be seating on the observer seat.
They don't de-ice , well they use a monkey system, I saw it myself taxiing by, two guys operating a hand pump. The hold over time can not be more than 4 to 15 minutes and they probably took half a hours to do the wings. They skipped the tails as I watched them taking off.
I am told that if you quit or fail, you lose your money , your reputation and a chance at working for a decent airline. The main foreign agency is areopersonnalglobal. Never heard of them personnally, but the guys I met in Shanghai say its a father and son chop with very little reach who will do anything to save their contract. You are on your own.
Not worth it guys.
Juneyao; It has to be the worst of the pack, not even VOR holding is representing them anymore. No one is happy and they will have a hard time finding expat pilots in the future.
There were many stories about them, everyone lost touching them, from agencies to pilots. China is starting to have a very bad reputation at handling its expats. These two are not helping .
I wanted to write on them since no one seemed to care...
Last edited by Black eyed pea; 1st Feb 2011 at 06:51. Reason: mistakes
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I work for Capitol. I have been here 10 months. I believe it to be the best of the small Chinese operators. For about a half a dozen guys that came here 2 years ago, it worked out great. A dream job, high flight time 1 day trips, returning home to BBQ on the beach on Hainan Island. I am happy it worked out for them.
I watched guys come to interview and never come back, living in the worst dump I ever stayed in Beijing for 2 months. I watched them show up for work, thinking they had a job, and sent home, jobless (after giving up a job somewhere else).
After watching the Chinese market, including my own life here, i would avoid trying to ever get a flying job in China. Not for the bull@#$ whining done by others. But for the following reasons.
Getting a job here is extremely difficult. Few pass. Talent is not the qualifier.
Once they tell you that you have a job here, you still don't. You quit your last job and you never get this one. 50%
Once you get here, you may not like it.
I wouldn't do it again, and do not recommend it for anyone unless they can quit their current job and return whenever they want. IF you can do that, what the heck, give it a try. I am one of that group.
I watched guys come to interview and never come back, living in the worst dump I ever stayed in Beijing for 2 months. I watched them show up for work, thinking they had a job, and sent home, jobless (after giving up a job somewhere else).
After watching the Chinese market, including my own life here, i would avoid trying to ever get a flying job in China. Not for the bull@#$ whining done by others. But for the following reasons.
Getting a job here is extremely difficult. Few pass. Talent is not the qualifier.
Once they tell you that you have a job here, you still don't. You quit your last job and you never get this one. 50%
Once you get here, you may not like it.
I wouldn't do it again, and do not recommend it for anyone unless they can quit their current job and return whenever they want. IF you can do that, what the heck, give it a try. I am one of that group.
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JotaJota
I think there about 15-20 active expat pilots at BCA at the moment. For 40% (Sanya)it has been a dream job, for 40% (Beijing) a decent job that pays great, and 20% really bad that pays great. Not bad treatment at work, or the flying, but the living conditions. 3 of us have been "wet-leased" out to another carrier. That flying is good also, but we live, and I quote, "in a hotel you wouldn't put your dog in". 4-5 FULL days a week, every week. Including no heat in the winter (I carried a small ceramic heater in my bag for 2 months).
They are now demanding from a couple of us, "relief" in the contract for days off for DH. We already DH free until over 80. Do they want us to pay them to DH now? Do they want us to give up our CAAC required days off to DH, or vacation? According to one contract agent, they are going to require this of all new pilots in their contracts. Maybe it will be imposed on the rest.
I am glad it has worked out for you guys in Sanya the last couple of years. I hope it does in the future as well. But it looks like the great deal that was BCA, is over, maybe for everybody.
Me, complain? F@#$% No. I am voting with my feet. Again.
FWIW I was treated better at work than any job I have ever had. Other pilots, FA's, management, everybody. But......
The living conditions were so bad I couldn't stand it anymore. To put this in perspective, I spent 2 of my 8 active years in the Corps living in tents, and even a couple of months "on the boat". I would take a tent or "the boat" any day over living in a dirty Chinese hotel, alone, 4-5 days a week. At least in the Corps I had my buddies around.
I hope I am wrong for you guys that are still there, or are coming, but I think the good days at BCA are in the past. I am betting on it.
Good luck, and good night.
I think there about 15-20 active expat pilots at BCA at the moment. For 40% (Sanya)it has been a dream job, for 40% (Beijing) a decent job that pays great, and 20% really bad that pays great. Not bad treatment at work, or the flying, but the living conditions. 3 of us have been "wet-leased" out to another carrier. That flying is good also, but we live, and I quote, "in a hotel you wouldn't put your dog in". 4-5 FULL days a week, every week. Including no heat in the winter (I carried a small ceramic heater in my bag for 2 months).
They are now demanding from a couple of us, "relief" in the contract for days off for DH. We already DH free until over 80. Do they want us to pay them to DH now? Do they want us to give up our CAAC required days off to DH, or vacation? According to one contract agent, they are going to require this of all new pilots in their contracts. Maybe it will be imposed on the rest.
I am glad it has worked out for you guys in Sanya the last couple of years. I hope it does in the future as well. But it looks like the great deal that was BCA, is over, maybe for everybody.
Me, complain? F@#$% No. I am voting with my feet. Again.
FWIW I was treated better at work than any job I have ever had. Other pilots, FA's, management, everybody. But......
The living conditions were so bad I couldn't stand it anymore. To put this in perspective, I spent 2 of my 8 active years in the Corps living in tents, and even a couple of months "on the boat". I would take a tent or "the boat" any day over living in a dirty Chinese hotel, alone, 4-5 days a week. At least in the Corps I had my buddies around.
I hope I am wrong for you guys that are still there, or are coming, but I think the good days at BCA are in the past. I am betting on it.
Good luck, and good night.
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For those of you who don't know how to use the search function:
Spring airlines thread
http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...-airlines.html
Highlights include 12,000 USD fines issued by the airline to foreign pilots without appeal. Multiple simulators annually at full jeopardy. 6 months line training in the jumpseat. Much pay is bonus related, not up-front. Unbelievably dirty, damp and cold (not hotel) hotels and an indifferent attitude by management.
Do your research, read the link above for a start. PM me if you like.
Spring airlines thread
http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...-airlines.html
Highlights include 12,000 USD fines issued by the airline to foreign pilots without appeal. Multiple simulators annually at full jeopardy. 6 months line training in the jumpseat. Much pay is bonus related, not up-front. Unbelievably dirty, damp and cold (not hotel) hotels and an indifferent attitude by management.
Do your research, read the link above for a start. PM me if you like.
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Juneyao and Spring Airlines
Hello, I am a little late to comment here but have some current information. I have not persoanlly worked at Juneyao or Spring Airlines but have some friends that have.
They left the airline in the employment process and were good pilots currently employed at another chinese carrier. They speak negative about both airlines and tell others not to go there.
Seems there is some sort of riff and politics which could end up leaving you in the cross fire.
I would try more stable carriers if it were me.
Good Luck,
On Final
They left the airline in the employment process and were good pilots currently employed at another chinese carrier. They speak negative about both airlines and tell others not to go there.
Seems there is some sort of riff and politics which could end up leaving you in the cross fire.
I would try more stable carriers if it were me.
Good Luck,
On Final
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My current contract's coming to an end and I was thinking of Spring Airlines (China's Ryanair) but from a Bloomberg article recently :
At least the guy's honest 
I'm looking for a more stable job and with this statement , and the lottery medicals , and $12000 punishment fines there, it's all far too uncertain and risky for me. The end loading of bonuses is CRAZY. and puts all the risk on the Pilot and not the Airline.
Better to get on into a more secure environment....EK DEC application is in.......
Time to get out of China......
Spring Air’s Shen:
“The boom in foreign pilots coming to China may only last a few years,” he said. “When we have more choice in the future, I will prefer our own pilots.”
“The boom in foreign pilots coming to China may only last a few years,” he said. “When we have more choice in the future, I will prefer our own pilots.”
I'm looking for a more stable job and with this statement , and the lottery medicals , and $12000 punishment fines there, it's all far too uncertain and risky for me. The end loading of bonuses is CRAZY. and puts all the risk on the Pilot and not the Airline.Better to get on into a more secure environment....EK DEC application is in.......
Time to get out of China......
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Spring Airline update...
Spring Airlines contract
If you have not decided yet and have a choice between different employers in China, don't be lured by companies like Spring Airlines that have safety and end of contract bonuses. There are so many ways you can lose them during the course of the contract. They have over 80 minor and major errors listed in the contract. And they really follow it to the letter. It does't have to reach the incident or accident level described by CAAC. On top of all this, they can terminate the contract at any time by giving you 3 months notice. So you can say bye bye to the end of contract bonus.
You work about 15 to 17 days a month, and expect to be away from home base half the time in hotels (maybe 3 stars at the most) which are not suitable for crew rest, noisy and extremely dirty.
They were mandated by the CAAC to implement the SMS (safety management system) principle. But for them it is only for show. Anybody outside of China knows their reputation for copying brand names. Well that what they are doing with SMS. They even have the audacity to have a chapter in their FOM describing the basic principal of SMS, where, among other things, it is stipulated the QAR (automatic down load of flight data) will not be used to punished pilots. Well they actually analyze this data daily.
They make you fly with inexperienced first officers (1500 hours total time), which is fair game.. But here is the catch... As soon they have enough time they will be upgraded to captain, and you can be sure you will not have a job for very long after that in China. If you choose to go to the Middle east, your job is much more secure, because it is all expats over there, no locals waiting to take your place. So for the long therm, China is not really the place. Schooling is very expensive (30,000 us$ per year), and you have no help provided by the company.
As far as over time is concerned , forget it, they do not make you fly over time, and by mistake if you do, you will be paid half of it after they take the tax. For the fuel bonus, it is getting very difficult to save any significant amount. The work pattern is 6 on 2 off, and they do not want to change it for a 6 on 3 off, even if it is feasible.
But if you still want to work for a Chinese company, may be you are better off with one that pays you up front, on a monthly basis, and not a maybe at the end of your contract. There are too many variables you have no control over it.
Good luck:
If you have not decided yet and have a choice between different employers in China, don't be lured by companies like Spring Airlines that have safety and end of contract bonuses. There are so many ways you can lose them during the course of the contract. They have over 80 minor and major errors listed in the contract. And they really follow it to the letter. It does't have to reach the incident or accident level described by CAAC. On top of all this, they can terminate the contract at any time by giving you 3 months notice. So you can say bye bye to the end of contract bonus.
You work about 15 to 17 days a month, and expect to be away from home base half the time in hotels (maybe 3 stars at the most) which are not suitable for crew rest, noisy and extremely dirty.
They were mandated by the CAAC to implement the SMS (safety management system) principle. But for them it is only for show. Anybody outside of China knows their reputation for copying brand names. Well that what they are doing with SMS. They even have the audacity to have a chapter in their FOM describing the basic principal of SMS, where, among other things, it is stipulated the QAR (automatic down load of flight data) will not be used to punished pilots. Well they actually analyze this data daily.
They make you fly with inexperienced first officers (1500 hours total time), which is fair game.. But here is the catch... As soon they have enough time they will be upgraded to captain, and you can be sure you will not have a job for very long after that in China. If you choose to go to the Middle east, your job is much more secure, because it is all expats over there, no locals waiting to take your place. So for the long therm, China is not really the place. Schooling is very expensive (30,000 us$ per year), and you have no help provided by the company.
As far as over time is concerned , forget it, they do not make you fly over time, and by mistake if you do, you will be paid half of it after they take the tax. For the fuel bonus, it is getting very difficult to save any significant amount. The work pattern is 6 on 2 off, and they do not want to change it for a 6 on 3 off, even if it is feasible.
But if you still want to work for a Chinese company, may be you are better off with one that pays you up front, on a monthly basis, and not a maybe at the end of your contract. There are too many variables you have no control over it.
Good luck:
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Spring Airlines
Spring Airlines contract
If you have not decided yet and have a choice between different employers in China, don't be lured by companies like Spring Airlines that have safety and end of contract bonuses. There are so many ways you can lose them during the course of the contract. They have over 80 minor and major errors listed in the contract. And they really follow it to the letter. It does't have to reach the incident or accident level described by CAAC. On top of all this, they can terminate the contract at any time by giving you 3 months notice. So you can say bye bye to the end of contract bonus.
You work about 15 to 17 days a month, and expect to be away from home base half the time in hotels (maybe 3 stars at the most) which are not suitable for crew rest, noisy and extremely dirty. Pilots are booking themselves hotel where they can have the proper rest and are not reimburse by the company.
They were mandated by the CAAC to implement the SMS (safety management system) principle. But for them it is only for show. Anybody outside of China knows their reputation for copying brand names. Well that what they are doing with SMS. They even have the audacity to have a chapter in their FOM describing the basic principal of SMS, where, among other things, it is stipulated the QAR (automatic down load of flight data) will not be used to punished pilots. Well they actually analyze this data daily.
They make you fly with inexperienced first officers (1500 hours total time), which is fair game.. But here is the catch... As soon they have enough time they will be upgraded to captain, and you can be sure you will not have a job for very long after that in China. If you choose to go to the Middle east, your job is much more secure, because it is all expats over there, no locals waiting to take your place. So for the long therm, China is not really the place. Schooling is very expensive (30,000 us$ per year), and you have no help provided by the company.
As far as over time is concerned , forget it, they do not make you fly over time, and by mistake if you do, you will be paid half of it after they take the tax. For the fuel bonus, it is getting very difficult to save any significant amount. The work pattern is 6 on 2 off, and they do not want to change it for a 6 on 3 off, even if it is feasible.
But if you still want to work for a Chinese company, may be you are better off with one that pays you up front, on a monthly basis, and not a maybe at the end of your contract. There are too many variables you have no control over it.
If you have not decided yet and have a choice between different employers in China, don't be lured by companies like Spring Airlines that have safety and end of contract bonuses. There are so many ways you can lose them during the course of the contract. They have over 80 minor and major errors listed in the contract. And they really follow it to the letter. It does't have to reach the incident or accident level described by CAAC. On top of all this, they can terminate the contract at any time by giving you 3 months notice. So you can say bye bye to the end of contract bonus.
You work about 15 to 17 days a month, and expect to be away from home base half the time in hotels (maybe 3 stars at the most) which are not suitable for crew rest, noisy and extremely dirty. Pilots are booking themselves hotel where they can have the proper rest and are not reimburse by the company.
They were mandated by the CAAC to implement the SMS (safety management system) principle. But for them it is only for show. Anybody outside of China knows their reputation for copying brand names. Well that what they are doing with SMS. They even have the audacity to have a chapter in their FOM describing the basic principal of SMS, where, among other things, it is stipulated the QAR (automatic down load of flight data) will not be used to punished pilots. Well they actually analyze this data daily.
They make you fly with inexperienced first officers (1500 hours total time), which is fair game.. But here is the catch... As soon they have enough time they will be upgraded to captain, and you can be sure you will not have a job for very long after that in China. If you choose to go to the Middle east, your job is much more secure, because it is all expats over there, no locals waiting to take your place. So for the long therm, China is not really the place. Schooling is very expensive (30,000 us$ per year), and you have no help provided by the company.
As far as over time is concerned , forget it, they do not make you fly over time, and by mistake if you do, you will be paid half of it after they take the tax. For the fuel bonus, it is getting very difficult to save any significant amount. The work pattern is 6 on 2 off, and they do not want to change it for a 6 on 3 off, even if it is feasible.
But if you still want to work for a Chinese company, may be you are better off with one that pays you up front, on a monthly basis, and not a maybe at the end of your contract. There are too many variables you have no control over it.
