21 Year old Girl youngest ATR Captain
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Belgium
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In Aviation a publicity stunt can easily turn around and bite you. Almost thirty years back an Air India publicity boasted that their captains could land on a news paper. Unfortunately a few months later a B707 of the same company landed on Mont Blanc and people joked about it. Hope this young very talented lady always lands on the center line of the runway!
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: cockpit
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@nitpicker : gud on ya ! that u had to work ur way up and i pretty sure u are a top notch pilot but mate all i'm sayin is just because she got an early break doesnt mean all the indian trainee pilots are experienced hobo's who have their life tailor made and have the first officer job gift wrapped and presented it to them .we do work our Ass off !and deserve to be in the RHS with just 250 hrs of flying . In no way does it make sense that you have to stick to general aviation for 3-5yrs in order to gain the experience to enter the big jets. If you got what it takes and the favour of god ! All things are possible...... 
jus kiddin mate !
Whatever makes you feel good josh.
250 hrs before getting the right seat ain't near enough my friend and one day when the wetness behind your ears drys off you may begin to comprehend.
Until then good luck and keep the blue side up.
Oh and if disaster strikes I certainly hope that the QRH covers it bud because you earn your pay and stripes working "outside" the QRH.
Just ask the QF boys in their A380 in Sin or the CX A330 boys landing at 230 kts in HK. They certainly had only 1 thing to rely apron on those 2 incidents my young learned friend,
Yes that right......EXPERIENCE.
Something the 21 yo new Captain and you DON'T YET HAVE.
So until you do excuse me if I don't recommend friends travel with any Indian registered Airline.
250 hrs before getting the right seat ain't near enough my friend and one day when the wetness behind your ears drys off you may begin to comprehend.
Until then good luck and keep the blue side up.
Oh and if disaster strikes I certainly hope that the QRH covers it bud because you earn your pay and stripes working "outside" the QRH.
Just ask the QF boys in their A380 in Sin or the CX A330 boys landing at 230 kts in HK. They certainly had only 1 thing to rely apron on those 2 incidents my young learned friend,
Yes that right......EXPERIENCE.
Something the 21 yo new Captain and you DON'T YET HAVE.
So until you do excuse me if I don't recommend friends travel with any Indian registered Airline.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: cockpit
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@nitpick : a good friend of mine who is just 20yrs old with basic casa cpl/ir and 100 hrs pic ,fly's for jetstar . care to comment ?? so i reckon u arent gonna recommend ur friends to fly jetstar too 
Men are wise in proportion, not to their experience, but to their capacity for experience.
- George Bernard Shaw
Men are wise in proportion, not to their experience, but to their capacity for experience.
- George Bernard Shaw
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: retirementland
Age: 79
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can this thread PLEASE be renamed "21 Year old LADY youngest ATR Captain". Such casual sexism grates.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Big Blue Yonder
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A380 jockey and the rest of the crowd - I hope my ramblings don't seem senile to most of you.I suggest you read my post carefully and also my previous posts over the years.You will see that I have a balanced unbiased view about this subject.You need to understand that in India , the system is different.You will be on the RHS of a high performance aircraft after your CPL.To keep it short , I had flown with some of the co pilots who are today Captains.While some were very good , there were many who were average or simply below average.Over time as a pilot one learns to detect certain inherent weaknesses in another pilot.Unless this is spotted and corrected , it will recurr at some point in that pilots career.I have seen it happen and I continue to see it happen.The problem in India today is that there is pressure to get people into the LHS and the truth is that many are simply not ready or capable.There is pressure to keep the expats out as much as possible and as a result you will see it's repurcusions in the future.Although I hope it does not happen , it seems inevitable as the sign are already there.For those who are actually in Indian aviation , you will know what I'm talking about.
Josh..... Yes I won't be flying Jetstar anymore. I have in the past when they employed suitably experience crew but not anymore. I and many others have been opposing that for quite anwhile now.
It's the young ones like you that can hardly spell Boeing that think being an FO with 100 hrs is ok, no surprises there.
Anyone that thinks experience doesn't matter is a fool in the extreme.
As I've said before, good luck you're gunna need lots of it.
I'll just keep my eyes and ears wide open when flying in or near India
It's the young ones like you that can hardly spell Boeing that think being an FO with 100 hrs is ok, no surprises there.
Anyone that thinks experience doesn't matter is a fool in the extreme.
As I've said before, good luck you're gunna need lots of it.
I'll just keep my eyes and ears wide open when flying in or near India
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: asia
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nitpicker raises a valid point that not many have touched upon and many have chosen to ignore : It is a 2 pilot operation, when the captain has no experience and the F/O has even less how can that be considered safe ?
Jetstar has been mentioned and I can assure you that not one of the A320 skippers is close to 21 or 2,500 hrs of flying. If the guy/gal in the LHS has good experience it enables an airline to hire, rightly or wrongly, inexperienced F/Os, but to have no experience in both seats ?
And at 21 years old, I am sure the one thing she is not lacking is confidence, and therein lies a whole other problem.
Well, India ( according to airfleets.net ) has the second highest amount of accidents in the world, second to the US who have just passed legislation to keep inexperinced pilots out of jets. Conversely Australia has one of the best records around and traditionally has had very experienced pilots in the rhs/lhs, that is about to change thanks to bottom-feeding Jetstar so watch this space 
Jetstar has been mentioned and I can assure you that not one of the A320 skippers is close to 21 or 2,500 hrs of flying. If the guy/gal in the LHS has good experience it enables an airline to hire, rightly or wrongly, inexperienced F/Os, but to have no experience in both seats ?
And at 21 years old, I am sure the one thing she is not lacking is confidence, and therein lies a whole other problem.
.You need to understand that in India , the system is different
Unfortunately these young guns just don't get it at all.
A very senior Training Captain used to call them "sons and daughters of the magenta line", it was and is a very good description.
It's all fine and dandy to fly the aircraft around following the magenta line with A/P B engaged but quite another to have the experience to operate outside the realms of their training (QRH ) when bad situations present themselves. Lately most of the bad situations required a skill level from the crews outside the norm training to get the job done. ( QF and CX to name just 2 ) Skills not learned from Microsoft Flight Sim or indeed a close reading of FCOM 3.
More importantly because experienced crews have been doing it for quite a while they have a lot more EXCESS capacity in their Brain to analyse what is occurring and work through the problems in a logical manner.
Over the last 30 something years as a professional Aviator I've seen young Top Guns and Old hands and guess which one I'd trust my families lives with???
Yep it ain't the young Top Guns.
A very senior Training Captain used to call them "sons and daughters of the magenta line", it was and is a very good description.
It's all fine and dandy to fly the aircraft around following the magenta line with A/P B engaged but quite another to have the experience to operate outside the realms of their training (QRH ) when bad situations present themselves. Lately most of the bad situations required a skill level from the crews outside the norm training to get the job done. ( QF and CX to name just 2 ) Skills not learned from Microsoft Flight Sim or indeed a close reading of FCOM 3.
More importantly because experienced crews have been doing it for quite a while they have a lot more EXCESS capacity in their Brain to analyse what is occurring and work through the problems in a logical manner.
Over the last 30 something years as a professional Aviator I've seen young Top Guns and Old hands and guess which one I'd trust my families lives with???
Yep it ain't the young Top Guns.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Floating around the planet
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Strangely there are some words that are losing their meaning in aviation.
One of them is airmanship.The new generation of plastic pilots barely know what it means.
The other one is experience.After a few sim sections normally poorly done ,and a few hours in front of the FCOMs people come to the conclusion that experience is not necessary anymore.
In all professional activities , experience is welcome.In aviation ,they are discovering that 100 hours is so good, that some countries are introducing the MPL, which will deliver even less experienced F/O to the line.
There are no substitute for experience,and a person with 21 y.o ,despite beeing the best pilot in the world still didn`t have time to get a minimum of experience and matureness.
The question examiners should ask for themselves before releasing a new Captain is:Would I feel confortable leaving all my family in an airplane with this guy at controls?
But , unfortunately, even the TRE`s are not what they used to be.Some of them don`t know even for themselves.
A3TWENTY
One of them is airmanship.The new generation of plastic pilots barely know what it means.
The other one is experience.After a few sim sections normally poorly done ,and a few hours in front of the FCOMs people come to the conclusion that experience is not necessary anymore.
In all professional activities , experience is welcome.In aviation ,they are discovering that 100 hours is so good, that some countries are introducing the MPL, which will deliver even less experienced F/O to the line.
There are no substitute for experience,and a person with 21 y.o ,despite beeing the best pilot in the world still didn`t have time to get a minimum of experience and matureness.
The question examiners should ask for themselves before releasing a new Captain is:Would I feel confortable leaving all my family in an airplane with this guy at controls?
But , unfortunately, even the TRE`s are not what they used to be.Some of them don`t know even for themselves.
A3TWENTY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind You.....
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm... can somebody remind me if this is a competition of being the youngest at this... or the youngest at that?
I recalled some old and wise geezer asked me "Do you wanna be a great pilot or an old pilot?" at that time i didn't know which was the best answer.... but now after all of the experience i am gaining and sure am still learning a lot... it would be best to be an old pilot.
Experience is the best teacher, because it will give you a hindsight of what to do just in case a situation happens that is out of the box or NOT LISTED in the QRH. oh unless they have a sat phone and call their mommy.
And AIRMANSHIP? it can never be taught, it is learned unless THEY have a BOOK for AIRMANSHIP... hmmm gives me an idea to write one....
oh well back to the drawing board....
I recalled some old and wise geezer asked me "Do you wanna be a great pilot or an old pilot?" at that time i didn't know which was the best answer.... but now after all of the experience i am gaining and sure am still learning a lot... it would be best to be an old pilot.
Experience is the best teacher, because it will give you a hindsight of what to do just in case a situation happens that is out of the box or NOT LISTED in the QRH. oh unless they have a sat phone and call their mommy.
And AIRMANSHIP? it can never be taught, it is learned unless THEY have a BOOK for AIRMANSHIP... hmmm gives me an idea to write one....
oh well back to the drawing board....
Sour grapes? Is that the best you can say?
Man oh man what is this world coming too!!
I worked for MAS for 4 years so ya can't fool me about their accident free record!! I've been there done that and have the T Shirt to prove it.
As for SQ!! IF they had 2 experienced FO's on board that 744 in TPE I venture to suggest there would have been a different outcome on the day and maybe the FO might have had the experience to speak up.
You cant get experience from just reading about it in FCOM 3, you have to be out there in the real world DOING IT day in day out under various levels of stress. How much experience is enough? I dont think you can ever have enough but for certain 20 yo FO's with 200 hrs ain't seen enough to be second in charge of a bathtub let a lone a 50 tonne Jet with 150 people depending on them.
Man oh man what is this world coming too!!
I worked for MAS for 4 years so ya can't fool me about their accident free record!! I've been there done that and have the T Shirt to prove it.
As for SQ!! IF they had 2 experienced FO's on board that 744 in TPE I venture to suggest there would have been a different outcome on the day and maybe the FO might have had the experience to speak up.
You cant get experience from just reading about it in FCOM 3, you have to be out there in the real world DOING IT day in day out under various levels of stress. How much experience is enough? I dont think you can ever have enough but for certain 20 yo FO's with 200 hrs ain't seen enough to be second in charge of a bathtub let a lone a 50 tonne Jet with 150 people depending on them.
Last edited by nitpicker330; 2nd Feb 2011 at 07:26.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Why would u care??
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since I can't possibly add on to all the excellent elaborations by nitpicker330 and hongkongfooey, etc. I shall keep my opinions plain and simple.
Point No. 1
You can train any average bloke to be a PIC in no time on any modern jet nowadays on routine ops. Just need good discipline, strong memory retention and a good tad of common sense and you'll be there.
Point No. 2
NOTHING can substitute EXPERIENCE. PERIOD.
Bottom line, it depends on how far an airline is willing to go prior to tossing the 4bars onto anyone. I guess in this case, KFA has weighed all options and preferred the publicity stunt. If point no. 2 is NOT true, do you ever believe that the bean counters in the vast majority of Asian carriers will actually not do the same?
Best of luck to the youngest ATR skipper, as someone has put it rightly, she might just need it some day.
Point No. 1
You can train any average bloke to be a PIC in no time on any modern jet nowadays on routine ops. Just need good discipline, strong memory retention and a good tad of common sense and you'll be there.
Point No. 2
NOTHING can substitute EXPERIENCE. PERIOD.
Bottom line, it depends on how far an airline is willing to go prior to tossing the 4bars onto anyone. I guess in this case, KFA has weighed all options and preferred the publicity stunt. If point no. 2 is NOT true, do you ever believe that the bean counters in the vast majority of Asian carriers will actually not do the same?
Best of luck to the youngest ATR skipper, as someone has put it rightly, she might just need it some day.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SINGAPORE
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my opinion is that aviation is a science that evolves by the minute. the training process worldwide, is geared to cater to the weakest pilot, not the aces. a lot of hard analysis and prescience has gone into making concrete rules and guidelines. there are reasons for example, why a 16 year old is not issued with a CPL, or, a why a nations president is not a young adult. this is an issue not about if, hopefully, maybe with luck, ra ra ra well done. she should not be blamed at all. KFA is downright reckless. will they now promote another 100 more 21 yr olds ?? if this does indeed happen, all pilots in the country will suffer the consequences.
it does show a lack of maturity and long term vision in KFA, and perhaps the, country for allowing it.
it does show a lack of maturity and long term vision in KFA, and perhaps the, country for allowing it.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: mumbai
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i was also in that airindia batch. bavicca passed the airindia sim check and was doing the medicals when she got selected for kingfisher.
she joined kingfisher because she did not like the work-environment in the govt airline.
she joined kingfisher because she did not like the work-environment in the govt airline.
