India - Indian Medical for all expats within 6 months
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SC10 - I read a comment (I think it was on an Air China thread) from a pilot who was (he says) in the peak of physical fitness, yet failed the medical on the same thing as you - resting heart rate. He sounded genuine. As do you.
I think it proves what I said. This is not about fitness!!
If anything, low resting heart rate is a symptom of very high fitness levels. Something the Chinese probably aren't familiar with - there being no fad for mass fitness training like we have in the West, they've probably only seen very low heart rates in atheletes.
No, it's really about making it as tough as possible for desperate Gweilos to get in and undermine the native pilots jobs. Thats all.
Their mandatory licence exam - a full ATPL- reputedly includes questions written in Chinese - to ensure no non Chinese pilot can ever get 100%. Pathetic, isn't it.
Why subject yourself to such BS? Don't you have a licence already? I guarentee a JAA/FAA Licence is far more recognised worldwide than their crappy piece of faked up Chinese paper. Why should you have to do a full ATPL exam? What does this say to you? Its all part of the grinding down process.
Let's not be intimidated.
I had 6 colleagues apply for jobs at Air China. Every one of them was told they were medically unfit. Worse - two were told they were terminally ill. The failures ranged from 'heart disease' to high blood pressure, to high cholesterol, to colour blindness, to 'need glasses' to 'need ear waxed' etc etc. None of these 'issues' had ever been noticed before.
One guy was worried so much he decided to go see a heart specialist on his return home. He was told there was absolutley nothing wrong with his heart.
However, the home Licencing Authority took a closer look and slapped endorsements on some of them. A death sentence for foreign employment, and a serious obstacle to LOL Cover.
In your case there was nothing wrong with you that might affect your ability to pass an FAA med. But what about someone who is told they have something else wrong with them - an actual defect that was never turned up in the normal recurrent medical at home because it isn't regularly tested for? Something that leads to an endorsement, or suspension?
And you refer to FAA standards - what about JAA standards? You've already indicated they are stricter.
I stumbled upon this thread and it prompted me to write because its a subject I've been concerned about for some time. Unfortunately, this particular thread is tied into the Indian hiring situation, which I know is fraught, and political. A lot of what is written here is therefore coloured with 'local scuttlebutt'.
This is a subject that really deserves a thread of it's own, perhaps on Rumours & News, or one of the other General Forums, rather than a parochial thread on a Regional Forum.
I think it proves what I said. This is not about fitness!!
If anything, low resting heart rate is a symptom of very high fitness levels. Something the Chinese probably aren't familiar with - there being no fad for mass fitness training like we have in the West, they've probably only seen very low heart rates in atheletes.
No, it's really about making it as tough as possible for desperate Gweilos to get in and undermine the native pilots jobs. Thats all.
Their mandatory licence exam - a full ATPL- reputedly includes questions written in Chinese - to ensure no non Chinese pilot can ever get 100%. Pathetic, isn't it.
Why subject yourself to such BS? Don't you have a licence already? I guarentee a JAA/FAA Licence is far more recognised worldwide than their crappy piece of faked up Chinese paper. Why should you have to do a full ATPL exam? What does this say to you? Its all part of the grinding down process.
Let's not be intimidated.
I had 6 colleagues apply for jobs at Air China. Every one of them was told they were medically unfit. Worse - two were told they were terminally ill. The failures ranged from 'heart disease' to high blood pressure, to high cholesterol, to colour blindness, to 'need glasses' to 'need ear waxed' etc etc. None of these 'issues' had ever been noticed before.
One guy was worried so much he decided to go see a heart specialist on his return home. He was told there was absolutley nothing wrong with his heart.
However, the home Licencing Authority took a closer look and slapped endorsements on some of them. A death sentence for foreign employment, and a serious obstacle to LOL Cover.
In your case there was nothing wrong with you that might affect your ability to pass an FAA med. But what about someone who is told they have something else wrong with them - an actual defect that was never turned up in the normal recurrent medical at home because it isn't regularly tested for? Something that leads to an endorsement, or suspension?
And you refer to FAA standards - what about JAA standards? You've already indicated they are stricter.
I stumbled upon this thread and it prompted me to write because its a subject I've been concerned about for some time. Unfortunately, this particular thread is tied into the Indian hiring situation, which I know is fraught, and political. A lot of what is written here is therefore coloured with 'local scuttlebutt'.
This is a subject that really deserves a thread of it's own, perhaps on Rumours & News, or one of the other General Forums, rather than a parochial thread on a Regional Forum.
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Ah, this reminds me of other Indian government money making schemes.. Put out a directive, work the companies into a frenzy with unrealistic deadlines and wait for the money to roll in. At this point they will extend the directive for years to come.
This is a PR money making stunt. Just add it to the list.
This is a PR money making stunt. Just add it to the list.
Commendable, you got some good insight. The latest is the night ban on Chapter 2 aircrafts from Delhi. A friend of mine in Alliance informed me that they will not be able to operate their old 737 from 10pm to 6:00 am in/out of Delhi... lets see how Blue Dart reacts to this. The proposed ban is supposed to come in effect from winter schedule, October 31, or Sept 30 whenever that winter schedule starts. Mark these dates and count on the quiet extensions which roll in.
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One final anecdote from the Air China Medical.
You are required to have a chest X-Ray apparently.
My mates told me they were herded into the X-Ray room together, then the first man was told to strip to the waist and position himself against the target - the radiographer retreated behind his lead screen, but left the other guys all standing around the 'patient'!
If one of them hadn't shouted HALT the radiographer would have happily zapped them all 6 times with X-Rays!! Chinese Aviation Medicals are bad for your health!!
BTW, one of the guys reported that the X-Ray machine was pointed outward at a flimsy wooden door, behind which people were queuing for their turn. So even if you aren't in that room you may be getting dosed with X-Rays every time they fire. Stand well back! Be warned.
You are required to have a chest X-Ray apparently.
My mates told me they were herded into the X-Ray room together, then the first man was told to strip to the waist and position himself against the target - the radiographer retreated behind his lead screen, but left the other guys all standing around the 'patient'!
If one of them hadn't shouted HALT the radiographer would have happily zapped them all 6 times with X-Rays!! Chinese Aviation Medicals are bad for your health!!
BTW, one of the guys reported that the X-Ray machine was pointed outward at a flimsy wooden door, behind which people were queuing for their turn. So even if you aren't in that room you may be getting dosed with X-Rays every time they fire. Stand well back! Be warned.
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These guys are the all pro's of baksheesh, no one in this part of the world comes close. Blue dart will be back in business when one of their home renovations get delayed, because something didn't arrive on time due to this regulation.
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A manager at an Airline has sent me a copy of the directive. The wording is:
"Class 1 Medical Examination for Civil Expat Aircrew flying under FATA License".
In case you weren't aware it is aimed at foreigners, not Indian Nationals flying under FATA. When an Indian is having problems where i come from, they are quick to pull the race card.
Civilian crews having to sit a military medical? How archaic!
"Class 1 Medical Examination for Civil Expat Aircrew flying under FATA License".
In case you weren't aware it is aimed at foreigners, not Indian Nationals flying under FATA. When an Indian is having problems where i come from, they are quick to pull the race card.
Civilian crews having to sit a military medical? How archaic!
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Apparently about 2 dozen odd expat pilots at AIE have failed their medical in India.
Indian medical standards are very different from FAA/JAA. Failing an Indian medical does mean that your wings will be clipped here in India. But as long as you meet the standards of the examining authority you will be fine in that country.
As far as fitness, having flown in India previously, I know that there are many chain smoking, heavy drinking, overweight pilots here who perhaps are a higher risk and live an unhealthy lifestyle. But, they know how to work the system. 30 days prior to their scheduled medical, they go on a strict diet, ayurvedic medicine, yoga etc plus local products to bring blood pressure and sugar down. They pass the medical and then off to their normal routine again.
Now, it's not everyone who does it, but it does happen here. It probably happens elsewhere as well but not as drastic because the FAA is far more pilot friendly than the DGCA when it comes to a medical. There are many ATP holders in the U.S flying for years with "one eye", prosthetic leg, cancer survivors etc.
Indian medical standards are very different from FAA/JAA. Failing an Indian medical does mean that your wings will be clipped here in India. But as long as you meet the standards of the examining authority you will be fine in that country.
As far as fitness, having flown in India previously, I know that there are many chain smoking, heavy drinking, overweight pilots here who perhaps are a higher risk and live an unhealthy lifestyle. But, they know how to work the system. 30 days prior to their scheduled medical, they go on a strict diet, ayurvedic medicine, yoga etc plus local products to bring blood pressure and sugar down. They pass the medical and then off to their normal routine again.
Now, it's not everyone who does it, but it does happen here. It probably happens elsewhere as well but not as drastic because the FAA is far more pilot friendly than the DGCA when it comes to a medical. There are many ATP holders in the U.S flying for years with "one eye", prosthetic leg, cancer survivors etc.
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NG Fellow,
This ruling was only sent to us in the last 6 days. How have 24 expats already failed the physical at AIE? I am not doubting your credibility I just can't imagine anything happening that fast in India. Did AI implement this policy earlier on their own? Was this a prescreening physical? I am just trying to get a handle on how this is going to work for us. I am fairly young and pretty healthy, but I do take a hypertension med that I am worried about.
Jet
This ruling was only sent to us in the last 6 days. How have 24 expats already failed the physical at AIE? I am not doubting your credibility I just can't imagine anything happening that fast in India. Did AI implement this policy earlier on their own? Was this a prescreening physical? I am just trying to get a handle on how this is going to work for us. I am fairly young and pretty healthy, but I do take a hypertension med that I am worried about.
Jet
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The medicals in india for civil pilots are conducted as per the guide line of ICAO. The are relaxed compared to Mil standards and done completed generally within half a day. Nothing to fear about them if you are ok.
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Actually I beg to differ... that they follow the ICAO on medicals, I think the whole medical system in India needs an overhaul and Pilots should be getting off their asses and getting it to happen instead of keeping the system in the dark ages and encouraging it to stay that way... plus come on what developed country demands all Class 1 medicals be done at only air force centers!
I think India is now the world leader is sillyness in Pilots medicals...if they say they are not willing to consider a JAA/EASA, CASA or FAA medical as equal to their own, and require Pilots to do a Indian medical also then just by this admission they are considering themselves a higher authority than all these developed countries and the ICAO and are not complying with the ICAO guidelines.
Oh and in the rest of the world a medical can generally be done in an hour or less, not half a day!
I think India is now the world leader is sillyness in Pilots medicals...if they say they are not willing to consider a JAA/EASA, CASA or FAA medical as equal to their own, and require Pilots to do a Indian medical also then just by this admission they are considering themselves a higher authority than all these developed countries and the ICAO and are not complying with the ICAO guidelines.
Oh and in the rest of the world a medical can generally be done in an hour or less, not half a day!
Last edited by itsbrokenagain; 2nd Oct 2010 at 03:22.
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Indian medical also then just by this admission they are considering themselves a higher authority than all these developed countries and the ICAO and are not complying with the ICAO guidelines.
Hence its completely under DGCAs authority to establish the requirement for a FATA validation.
Can you be specific which guideline is the DGCA not following?
The medicals in india for civil pilots are conducted as per the guide line of ICAO. The are relaxed compared to Mil standards and done completed generally within half a day
Last edited by jimmygill; 2nd Oct 2010 at 17:26.
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If you lied on your renewal Form....sayonara.....
Remember as long as you survive you still have a right to your body, once you are dead in an air accident the body belongs to minor accent Inspector of Accidents.
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Who Cares!!! I am not going to tell anyone that I failed a medical because I couldn't stand on my head and juggle six tennis balls with my feet. What relevence would this have in any accident, incident or otherwise? Especially an agency that if you offer the right amount of rupees, you a suddenly a picture of health.
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Did they ask you to do that? Jeez, they musta had it in for ya.
Just tick the YES box, and explain it to your home AME. Let him take it from there.
Honesty is the best policy.
Just tick the YES box, and explain it to your home AME. Let him take it from there.
Honesty is the best policy.
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You know there is no 'Have you failed a non FAA medical' tick box on the FAA medical form... so like we know they dont give a ****e as long as you can pass their exam you are good to go.
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"Class 1 Medical Examination for Civil Expat Aircrew flying under FATA License".
In case you weren't aware it is aimed at foreigners, not Indian Nationals flying under FATA. When an Indian is having problems where i come from, they are quick to pull the race card.
In case you weren't aware it is aimed at foreigners, not Indian Nationals flying under FATA. When an Indian is having problems where i come from, they are quick to pull the race card.
Civilian crews having to sit a military medical? How archaic!
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There's a draft amendment for CAR section 7 pertaining to this issue, basically stating very succinctly that Indian pilots are not allowed to fly under FATA.
Such proposed amendment is not legally admissible. Can you please cite where this draft CAR is on the website.
@others
Race comes in a real life at lots of places, but not through CARs.
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@Jimmygill...
Basically the DGCA plans to stop issuing FATA to Indian Nationals with foreign licenses altogether, so Indian pilots will not be allowed to fly under FATA in the future. Also, Indian Nationals currently flying under FATA will have to convert their licenses within a specified time frame if the proposed amendment goes through:
Excerpt:
"
2. LICENCE AND EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS 2.1 General Requirements
(i) The applicant be licensed and rated on the type of aircraft by the competent authority of a contracting State in accordance with the ICAO requirements and acceptable to DGCA India.
(ii) The Foreign Aircrew Temporary Authorisation shall not be issued in respect of Indian Nationals having valid foreign licence. They will be required to convert their Foreign licence in accordance with the requirements stipulated in CAR Setion 3 Series ‘G’ Part I. "
............................................................ ...........................
ix) A FATA granted to Indian Nationals prior to the issue of this CAR shall be considered for extension for a maximum period of 120 days or as determined by Director General beyond the expiry of their FATA to enable them to convert their Foreign licence into Indian licence in accordance with the requirements laid down in CAR Section 7 Series ‘G’ Part I. "
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india med
I flew in India for 4 years and the 1st 6 months i flew on a jamaican expired licence, and a valid FAA medical, so much for them knowing what the hell the are doing, this is just because some indian pilots are pissed because they have to pass via "air force doctors"------only in india lol