Liability in China
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Liability in China
Can any of you experienced expat guys comment on this question:
What if an expat pilot has an incident of accident, whether their fault or not, that causes injury or even death to passengers. Is there a precedent to indicate how it might be handled by the Chinese authorities? Are there any overt/undue risks, or dangers in terms of liability and or imprisonment to an expat pilot in a communist country?
What if an expat pilot has an incident of accident, whether their fault or not, that causes injury or even death to passengers. Is there a precedent to indicate how it might be handled by the Chinese authorities? Are there any overt/undue risks, or dangers in terms of liability and or imprisonment to an expat pilot in a communist country?
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Liability in China
I am not the expert here but here are my thoughts:
This is a good subject and one to consider when working in China. It is true that generally foreign pilots are treated well and the police are afraid to hassle them. The reason is they are afraid of making trouble with them because it may bring them unknown trouble from their leaders. This comes from a family source, leader of a towns police but I have never tested it...hehe.
I have been flying in China for only 2 years and have concern about the liabilty part of flying. I don't think my above comments would help too much if you were invloved in a serous accident resulting in injury or death. I think you would be in serious trouble if you were at fault because of pilot error. The Chinese believe if you break the Law or make a mistake, you MUST, be punished. This is culture, a way of life and I see this often in the newspapers. A bridge collapes, they will certainly hunt down the engineer, the company leaders and they will be punished, some very seriously, even jailed.
As pilots in China it is SOP with most companies that we are punished for small errors, QARS, or being late for work and the list goes on. The punishments are with fines by the company, or by posting your name and error on the company website for all to see and company action. If your error is really bad you will get CAAC action against your certificate.
I have a liability clause in my contract for the basics but PILOT ERROR, serious injury or death, I would be on own and left to the system. The system could bring some criminal action seeking a prison term.
This is also true in other countries as well. Criminal liability for pilots seems to be becoming more popular these days.
Fly safe and be careful,
On Final
This is a good subject and one to consider when working in China. It is true that generally foreign pilots are treated well and the police are afraid to hassle them. The reason is they are afraid of making trouble with them because it may bring them unknown trouble from their leaders. This comes from a family source, leader of a towns police but I have never tested it...hehe.
I have been flying in China for only 2 years and have concern about the liabilty part of flying. I don't think my above comments would help too much if you were invloved in a serous accident resulting in injury or death. I think you would be in serious trouble if you were at fault because of pilot error. The Chinese believe if you break the Law or make a mistake, you MUST, be punished. This is culture, a way of life and I see this often in the newspapers. A bridge collapes, they will certainly hunt down the engineer, the company leaders and they will be punished, some very seriously, even jailed.
As pilots in China it is SOP with most companies that we are punished for small errors, QARS, or being late for work and the list goes on. The punishments are with fines by the company, or by posting your name and error on the company website for all to see and company action. If your error is really bad you will get CAAC action against your certificate.
I have a liability clause in my contract for the basics but PILOT ERROR, serious injury or death, I would be on own and left to the system. The system could bring some criminal action seeking a prison term.
This is also true in other countries as well. Criminal liability for pilots seems to be becoming more popular these days.
Fly safe and be careful,
On Final
- oh thats a good one. Read any of the local newspapers and you will see everyday complains that many buy their way out of problems here. Sad but true.
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Same **** in Korea
I have been flying in China for only 2 years and have concern about the liabilty part of flying. I don't think my above comments would help too much if you were invloved in a serous accident resulting in injury or death. I think you would be in serious trouble if you were at fault because of pilot error. The Chinese believe if you break the Law or make a mistake, you MUST, be punished. This is culture, a way of life and I see this often in the newspapers. A bridge collapes, they will certainly hunt down the engineer, the company leaders and they will be punished, some very seriously, even jailed.
As pilots in China it is SOP with most companies that we are punished for small errors, QARS, or being late for work and the list goes on. The punishments are with fines by the company, or by posting your name and error on the company website for all to see and company action. If your error is really bad you will get CAAC action against your certificate.
I have a liability clause in my contract for the basics but PILOT ERROR, serious injury or death, I would be on own and left to the system. The system could bring some criminal action seeking a prison term.
This is also true in other countries as well. Criminal liability for pilots seems to be becoming more popular these days.
As pilots in China it is SOP with most companies that we are punished for small errors, QARS, or being late for work and the list goes on. The punishments are with fines by the company, or by posting your name and error on the company website for all to see and company action. If your error is really bad you will get CAAC action against your certificate.
I have a liability clause in my contract for the basics but PILOT ERROR, serious injury or death, I would be on own and left to the system. The system could bring some criminal action seeking a prison term.
This is also true in other countries as well. Criminal liability for pilots seems to be becoming more popular these days.
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Assume the worst, especially in China.
Look, prosecution of pilots is no longer a trend, it's now a fact.
The ATR crew who ran out of fuel (in Italy) did jail time. I watched the Nat Geo special about the crash. It was hardly the fault of the Captain, there were many other factors at play.
The Italian scientists who were sentenced to 10 years in prison for not predicting an earthquake? GMAFB!
Yet thousands of bankers got off scott-free, even received bonuses, for engineering the GFC of 2008.
Our world is now run by lawyers. Get use to it and get representation. If you are involved in an accident, or even minor incident, the managers of that airline will do everything they possibly can to put the blame solely on you: including withholding evidence or even manufacturing it.
This is one of the reasons I left the contract world. Back home at my airline I have union representation and more honest legal system. It may not be perfect but it's far better than facing a gantlet in China, India, the ME, or any other 3rd world environment.
IMO, the salaries of contract pilots need to be at least double from where they are today but merely for the point of all that liability exposure. Although not exactly addressing aircraft crashes, The Tokyo Convention of 1963 was suppose to somewhat protect us but it has failed mostly as a line of defense in recent years.
Look, prosecution of pilots is no longer a trend, it's now a fact.
The ATR crew who ran out of fuel (in Italy) did jail time. I watched the Nat Geo special about the crash. It was hardly the fault of the Captain, there were many other factors at play.
The Italian scientists who were sentenced to 10 years in prison for not predicting an earthquake? GMAFB!
Yet thousands of bankers got off scott-free, even received bonuses, for engineering the GFC of 2008.
Our world is now run by lawyers. Get use to it and get representation. If you are involved in an accident, or even minor incident, the managers of that airline will do everything they possibly can to put the blame solely on you: including withholding evidence or even manufacturing it.
This is one of the reasons I left the contract world. Back home at my airline I have union representation and more honest legal system. It may not be perfect but it's far better than facing a gantlet in China, India, the ME, or any other 3rd world environment.
IMO, the salaries of contract pilots need to be at least double from where they are today but merely for the point of all that liability exposure. Although not exactly addressing aircraft crashes, The Tokyo Convention of 1963 was suppose to somewhat protect us but it has failed mostly as a line of defense in recent years.
Last edited by Geebz; 16th Mar 2013 at 17:04.
