Air Mekong in Vietnam
Join Date: May 2003
Location: KGRB, but on the road about 1/2 the time.
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Hi!
If you want to compare this to salaries outside of SE Asia, in Kenya B1900 capts are typically paid $10K/month and up. The contract terms at Air Meking ARE very low, relatively speaking.
cliff
LFW
If you want to compare this to salaries outside of SE Asia, in Kenya B1900 capts are typically paid $10K/month and up. The contract terms at Air Meking ARE very low, relatively speaking.
cliff
LFW
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: far east
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undermining expat contracts?
i do get why some expats see the threat to their own salaries but i do not understand why the newbies need to be harassed into not accepting terms which seem acceptable to them.
the reality is that expats who whine about people "undermining" their contracts should be more sensitive about the fact that those expat salaries are already way higher than salaries given to locals.
the reality is that expats who whine about people "undermining" their contracts should be more sensitive about the fact that those expat salaries are already way higher than salaries given to locals.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Chairwrecker
you have no clue what you are talking about
The local Vietnamese pilots are making 30 times more money that a normal Vietnamese citizen
Name me a country where a pilot is making 30 times more money than the average worker
Try USA, Canada, Europe , None of them
Expats are making more money TRUE, and this is normal
But they have to pay for their housing, food, travelling ect ect
and Vietnam Airlines do need expats pilots, so this is normal that they have to pay them more in order to get them like any other country who need expats
If the expats were paid the same money than in their own country they would stay home
So I can understand that if expats are coming in Vietnam for a very low salary it will eventually Screw the pilots who are flying there now
$6000 a month to fly a CRJ in Vietnam when the Atr 72 Pilots are making $8000 it is very LOW
you have no clue what you are talking about
The local Vietnamese pilots are making 30 times more money that a normal Vietnamese citizen
Name me a country where a pilot is making 30 times more money than the average worker
Try USA, Canada, Europe , None of them
Expats are making more money TRUE, and this is normal
But they have to pay for their housing, food, travelling ect ect
and Vietnam Airlines do need expats pilots, so this is normal that they have to pay them more in order to get them like any other country who need expats
If the expats were paid the same money than in their own country they would stay home
So I can understand that if expats are coming in Vietnam for a very low salary it will eventually Screw the pilots who are flying there now
$6000 a month to fly a CRJ in Vietnam when the Atr 72 Pilots are making $8000 it is very LOW
Join Date: May 2003
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Hi!
I am expat, and at my co. Everyone is paid by position, does not matter if expat of local. At the 2 airlines I know in NBO, it is the same. Also, in many places the locals have MUCH easier time upgrading to FO from capt vs expats.
Cliff
LFW
I am expat, and at my co. Everyone is paid by position, does not matter if expat of local. At the 2 airlines I know in NBO, it is the same. Also, in many places the locals have MUCH easier time upgrading to FO from capt vs expats.
Cliff
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Lindberg
Exactly my point. You will find no sympathy as your expat salary is already way above the local pilots'. now if some guy with the same skills wants to take a lower pay, what you're doing is harassment at worst, naivete at best. do you really expect to fight the market? people will come if there are serious takers (somebody else called them bottom feeders but that's really beside the point), and you should be thankful for the good pay you got while you had it going for you.
and pls hanging out the fact that local viet pilots earn 30x more than local vietnamese is totally irrelevant.
and pls hanging out the fact that local viet pilots earn 30x more than local vietnamese is totally irrelevant.
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Join Date: May 2010
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One perspective many of you are failing to consider is the fact that we are not competing with other expat pilots for contracts on this flying. Air Mekong does not, nor has is even tried to hire any pilot that is not currently flying on the ASA (Atlantic Southeast Airlines) seniority list. Period.
We ARE and WILL remain employees of ASA before, during and after this contract. We ARE NOT idependent contractors, and retain our seniority number for our return to ASA after the contract.
There are many things that still need to be answered by Air Mekong before anyone sings on the dotted line. With September approaching quickly they will have to be forthcoming with a contract or they will start to lose interest from many who accpeted the conditional employment offer (me included).
Let me be very clear. ASA pilots are not coming into this with the idea of it being a "13 month vacation". Although the pay is not where most other contracts are, many of us are weary of the stagnation here in the states, and see this as a way to get into a different aspect of flying. I for one think it will be a great experience to live in Vietnam and be a part of a new start up airline. I am however, aware that it will not be a bed of roses all the time. It will be hard work, but a challege that I look forward to.
I appreciate all points of view, and whether they be good or bad, they are helpful.
Air Mekong is brand new. Hasn't made one $dollar yet. Give us a year to get this thing going, and I for one will be on the front line to call for an increase in pay and COLA, to bring us in line with the rest of the expat contracts.
If any of you have any other thoughts or ideas of what we need to be aware of, what we need to get in writing from the company or just general hatred
please keep posting! We need all the info we can get.
We ARE and WILL remain employees of ASA before, during and after this contract. We ARE NOT idependent contractors, and retain our seniority number for our return to ASA after the contract.
There are many things that still need to be answered by Air Mekong before anyone sings on the dotted line. With September approaching quickly they will have to be forthcoming with a contract or they will start to lose interest from many who accpeted the conditional employment offer (me included).
Let me be very clear. ASA pilots are not coming into this with the idea of it being a "13 month vacation". Although the pay is not where most other contracts are, many of us are weary of the stagnation here in the states, and see this as a way to get into a different aspect of flying. I for one think it will be a great experience to live in Vietnam and be a part of a new start up airline. I am however, aware that it will not be a bed of roses all the time. It will be hard work, but a challege that I look forward to.
I appreciate all points of view, and whether they be good or bad, they are helpful.
Air Mekong is brand new. Hasn't made one $dollar yet. Give us a year to get this thing going, and I for one will be on the front line to call for an increase in pay and COLA, to bring us in line with the rest of the expat contracts.
If any of you have any other thoughts or ideas of what we need to be aware of, what we need to get in writing from the company or just general hatred
please keep posting! We need all the info we can get.
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Luckily guys, like 4 runner, doe not decide on anything. Bitching and talking down on the decisions of other, really bad call if you ask me. Everybodies situation is different and everyones makes there own calculations.
Although the pay does not sounds as to much, still it is better then sitting at home and a nice experience. Just remember to stick together should they decide to play with the resttime etc.. Know from experience that you need to self organise in these regions.
Check the following, pretty obvious perhaps but still.
- Training cost (recurrent/checks etc). Not sure if they have a sim close, but many of these LCC/Start-up might start getting dificult when the bills start coming.
- Medicals
- Insurrances
- Deduction/Re-imbursement for travelcosts
Good luck and have fun
Although the pay does not sounds as to much, still it is better then sitting at home and a nice experience. Just remember to stick together should they decide to play with the resttime etc.. Know from experience that you need to self organise in these regions.
Check the following, pretty obvious perhaps but still.
- Training cost (recurrent/checks etc). Not sure if they have a sim close, but many of these LCC/Start-up might start getting dificult when the bills start coming.
- Medicals
- Insurrances
- Deduction/Re-imbursement for travelcosts
Good luck and have fun
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
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Things are actually going well. We have 4 planes up and running and have been flying since early October. The airline has had it's share issues, but what new company doesn't.
From the folks I've talked to away from work that have flown on us seem to like the service. I've been very impressed with the cabin crew, and we do a pretty good job of running on time.
All original pilots are still here, and we have a new group from ASA arriving in a week or so. Everyone seems to be pretty happy.
Thanks for your concern
From the folks I've talked to away from work that have flown on us seem to like the service. I've been very impressed with the cabin crew, and we do a pretty good job of running on time.
All original pilots are still here, and we have a new group from ASA arriving in a week or so. Everyone seems to be pretty happy.
Thanks for your concern
Join Date: Dec 2010
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As long as they hiring the American cheap laborers, they will keep it at roughly 50% the going rate.
You can always spot an Air Mekong pilot in Vietnam. It's the blokes selling lottery tickets.
You can always spot an Air Mekong pilot in Vietnam. It's the blokes selling lottery tickets.
Join Date: Sep 2010
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The most entertaining (and ignorant) part of this thread isn't the fact that American regional pilots are continuing to erode work conditions around the world, but that some of them are planning to bring "girlfriends" to Vietnam.
A well thought out plan, gents.
A well thought out plan, gents.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Additional CRJ900's on the way?
Will Air Mekong be adding further CRJ900's to the fleet in the near future? If so,will they be taken from the SkyWest fleet, or can we expect an order directly from Bombardier for some of those CRJ900 NextGen's?
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Living and working in SE Asia
Myself and my buddies considering the move are all late 20s and single, a couple with girlfriends that would come. Well my only question would be, why bring a girlfriend to Vietnam? 
So true!!! I'm not flight crew just a regular passenger but I can offer some insight into living and working in Vietnam. Have been living in SGN since the mid 90s and now have a Vietnamese wife, several businesses and many local friends. Living here is improving, but back in the pioneering 90s one had to be incredibly resilient and patient. VN has always been described as a hardship posting and it certainly was in every sense of the word. The previous 2 or 3 years have seen dramatic changes in healthcare, accommodation, infrastructure, you name it and it has improved. But still has a long way to go before reaching the standards of Singapore, HK or KL. I noticed quotes around $1000 USD for an apartment, thats true for a brand new 2 bed as there has been explosive growth in construction. International schools start at $1000 USD per month, but better quality INT schools are much higher. Medical care has improved radically in the past 3 years, 15 years ago it was vital to fly out for any type of surgery. Food is cheap, services such as power, water etc are cheap, but nightlife can be expensive unless you like to hang out at cheap beer bars with local workers. A fulltime driver will set you back around $100 to $150 USD per month, a maid about $50 to $100 USD. I drive a motorbike and our car, but my Expat friends consider me as crazy. I would strongly recommend to never consider bringing a wife or girlfriend to VN. Its like bringing ice to the Eskimos. Doesn't make sense. Almost all marriages of 2 white people end in divorce here, simple reason is the competition. Up to 60% of the population is under the age of 30, so beautiful slim girls are in abundance and guess who they want to be their boyfriend or husband?? Many of them have good English language skills and if you look in the right places are University educated. I note the money on offer may not be great but if you are young, SINGLE and adventurous you will have a fantastic time. All the best.
So true!!! I'm not flight crew just a regular passenger but I can offer some insight into living and working in Vietnam. Have been living in SGN since the mid 90s and now have a Vietnamese wife, several businesses and many local friends. Living here is improving, but back in the pioneering 90s one had to be incredibly resilient and patient. VN has always been described as a hardship posting and it certainly was in every sense of the word. The previous 2 or 3 years have seen dramatic changes in healthcare, accommodation, infrastructure, you name it and it has improved. But still has a long way to go before reaching the standards of Singapore, HK or KL. I noticed quotes around $1000 USD for an apartment, thats true for a brand new 2 bed as there has been explosive growth in construction. International schools start at $1000 USD per month, but better quality INT schools are much higher. Medical care has improved radically in the past 3 years, 15 years ago it was vital to fly out for any type of surgery. Food is cheap, services such as power, water etc are cheap, but nightlife can be expensive unless you like to hang out at cheap beer bars with local workers. A fulltime driver will set you back around $100 to $150 USD per month, a maid about $50 to $100 USD. I drive a motorbike and our car, but my Expat friends consider me as crazy. I would strongly recommend to never consider bringing a wife or girlfriend to VN. Its like bringing ice to the Eskimos. Doesn't make sense. Almost all marriages of 2 white people end in divorce here, simple reason is the competition. Up to 60% of the population is under the age of 30, so beautiful slim girls are in abundance and guess who they want to be their boyfriend or husband?? Many of them have good English language skills and if you look in the right places are University educated. I note the money on offer may not be great but if you are young, SINGLE and adventurous you will have a fantastic time. All the best.
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I'm not with ASA, but have contracted to fly in the region on and off for a long time. I don't see the ASA pilots as having any effect on the contract world. They are going to work for their same company. Until recently, only ASA pilots were offered the work, so what Air Mekong is doing has no effect on our market. Now if those jobs were put out to various contracting firms, that would be different. I understand that you can now apply for the jobs if you're not with ASA, but I've heard the pilots are all still coming from ASA. This is an internal company project. If you want to bash someone, there are some Indonesian carriers such as Batavia, or Lion Air that are only offering about $4,000/month for 737 captains.