Save Jet Airways
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Save Jet Airways
I Appeal To All Jet Pilots.do Not Destroy This Airline.this Is The Only Indian Airline That Can Truly Compete Internationally.this Is One Industry We Must Make Our Mark On To Progress As A Nation.do Not Be Pressurized.do Not Be Intimidated By Self Centred People.please Join Work.please Dissolve This Union.
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Hey ,Capt Apache,
How about sending out the same appeal to the management at Jet? Or do you think they are innocent and have no blame to share?Myabe you are part of management.
The thing is,Capt, the company that gets a union generally deserves one.Who says that the union will destroy the airline?It might actually make it stronger.You can take that back to the management guys you are speaking for.
Alt3.
How about sending out the same appeal to the management at Jet? Or do you think they are innocent and have no blame to share?Myabe you are part of management.
The thing is,Capt, the company that gets a union generally deserves one.Who says that the union will destroy the airline?It might actually make it stronger.You can take that back to the management guys you are speaking for.
Alt3.
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Of course,the management has a blame to share...They should have kicked out the belligerent 'BOYS' AND 'CHILDREN' (in the words of your union leader) a long time ago.They are like a couple of bad apples spoiling the good ones
You should have taken the pay cut when you had the chance to show your solidarity with the Chairman.He would have realized the worth of the local pilots and would have never forgotten it.But instead of doing that you derided him and sent him back making insensitive claims like 'uske pass bahut paisa hai'
Wake up and look around.It is already doing that.
You should have taken the pay cut when you had the chance to show your solidarity with the Chairman.He would have realized the worth of the local pilots and would have never forgotten it.But instead of doing that you derided him and sent him back making insensitive claims like 'uske pass bahut paisa hai'
Who says that the union will destroy the airline?
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Jet and other Asian Airlines
Unions built the moddle class in America but has not been needed in 30 years. Look at the state of the unions in the USA maybe 10% but almost all pilots, engrs etc and the US airline business is the worst in the world. I took NWA and I have never had such bad service all the way around. Old planes, no IFE, Old crew who are rude rude and totally obnoxious - why because they make 60-80K and are protected by there Union. Wake up smell the roses I will never fly an american carrier again I will stick to SQ, Cathay, yes I will say it Lufthansa and QF. So take the cuts and bless the fact you have a job. And by the way there is no premium outfit in India (jet was) the others are all truly a joke and it is driven by the employ many attitude - that has always been in India since the dawn of time...............Just look at the indian gov run companies my god their people to plane ratio is 500 to 1 as an LCC is about 80-1.....so do what you have to ..............
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Yep, the US model is great. Just ask UAL, AMR, US Air, the list is so long I couldn't even begin to finish it pilots. If you follow the US model you will be over worked, underpaid, disrespected and treated like crap. And on top of that you will have a union who will steal your money and do nothing for you. All a company does to get around a union is file bankruptcy.
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Union Indeed
Agent 123
In india that is a common way to coerce unwilling and rational people. Poor kids are probably peterfied of gagnster (pink shirt and all) looking "seniors" telling them what to do. Your earlier posts suggest jet will start terminating them randomly.
Guess what if an illegal strike is called post 5 days the management can mark absent and terminate all who have participated in this without show cause. Goyal's lawyers know this and Monday is D day as the sick leave pilots who took by strike notice (dug thier own grave) did not hear the court that declared thier strike illegal are going to be looking for ways to pay thier tuition loans.
With about 50% of his work force I am sure he will curtail ops for a while, get back expats and other pilots from around the world and who will want to work even for lower wages than these guys and go back to concentrating on making money. Doubt any airline would touch a pilot from this fiasco, so maybe some new training in a different field is needed.
In india that is a common way to coerce unwilling and rational people. Poor kids are probably peterfied of gagnster (pink shirt and all) looking "seniors" telling them what to do. Your earlier posts suggest jet will start terminating them randomly.
Guess what if an illegal strike is called post 5 days the management can mark absent and terminate all who have participated in this without show cause. Goyal's lawyers know this and Monday is D day as the sick leave pilots who took by strike notice (dug thier own grave) did not hear the court that declared thier strike illegal are going to be looking for ways to pay thier tuition loans.
With about 50% of his work force I am sure he will curtail ops for a while, get back expats and other pilots from around the world and who will want to work even for lower wages than these guys and go back to concentrating on making money. Doubt any airline would touch a pilot from this fiasco, so maybe some new training in a different field is needed.
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Anyone who stands with the company in this hour of need will be rewarded.Your sense of loyalty and its timing is completely misplaced.If anything,you need to be as selfish as the guys who are making you do this.
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ALL expats should support the Jet guys in not going to India. Please do not be scabs,anyway with all the bureacracy in India It5 will be 6months till the scab expats are online. Good job NAG
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Why would we support NAG, they don't want us here? Jet is a great company who have treated us well. They may pay us late, work us hard, but they are fare and value are experience and expertise. If they didn't need us they wouldn't have us here. Don't let a guy with 1500 hours and NO PIC time in anything over a cessna 172 tell you different. When you are offered an upgrade on the ATR don't turn it down. It is not beneath you, you need the experience you are not entitled to upgrade. At some point self preservation should trump ego. I have had to take the jet from more guys this week than in my entire 20 career. According to them they were all ready to upgrade yesterday...
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I take the plane not because they are Indian. 1 in 20 are very good. It is because they don't track centerline, consistently fast or slow +- 10 knots, completly quit flying the airplane in the flare. They are not ready to upgrade. If they had to work under conditions outside India they would understand that they have it very good. And why I feel the two first guys were let go for the wrong reasons. Jepordizing 12,000 other employees jobs seems very petty. Especially when they had no real reason to start a union in the first place.
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I think Capt Apache is looking for a management job....give it up pal, pilots need to be appreciated. We are professionals, and people like you make it tougher for others to see that. Go away.
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The Hindu Business Line : Jetting into an avoidable crisis
Jetting into an avoidable crisis
A. Ranganathan
The current crisis in Jet Airways was avoidable. The unfortunate developments have been blamed on the pilots of the National Aviators Guild — an entirely false impression. Pilot-bashing in the media reached its peak when the Jet Airways Chairman, Mr Naresh Goyal, referred to them as terrorists. This objectionable statement is what prompted me to write this article.
The spark for this unrest was set off by the action of the Jet management, when it summarily sacked two very senior captains. They were sent a single-line e-mail stating that they were terminated with immediate effect and no reasons were assigned. The Executive Director of Jet Airways, Mr Saroj Datta’s response to a question during a televised interview on a business channel, had a significant pointer. The conversation went something like this:
Q: Your present problems with your airline began when Capt Sam Thomas and Capt D. Balaram were sacked because they joined the National Aviator’s Guild. Why was that such an objectionable thing to do?
Dutta: I don’t think that is correct. Yes, they were a party to the formation of the Guild. But the reason they were sacked, or their services were terminated, is because there are internal rules, discipline and all sorts of things all of us are required to follow if an organisation is to function effectively and there were reasons for us to have to act as we did.
Obviously, the management did not want to admit that the reason for the sacking was entirely because the two captains were involved in the formation of the pilot’s union. The truth is in the open in the following interview with the Chairman of the airline, which can be viewed at:
Excl: Why the Jet boss won't give in-The Newshour-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos
Poor management
Mr Goyal states that the two captains went around coercing pilots into signing the union membership form, which is far from the truth. Forming a union is a citizen’s right. Creating an impression that a pilots’ union would increase the insurance charges for an airline is a myth.
The American Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) represents all the pilots in the largest civil aviation sector in the world.
Several major airlines worldwide have pilots’ unions. They do not pay higher insurance charges. On the contrary, airlines with a unionised set of pilots have a good safety record. Insurance rates are based on the safety records of an airline.
Jet Airway’s ills began with a string of poor management decisions, starting with the acquisition of Air Sahara. With the collapse of the US financial sector during the Black September of 2008, reality set in. On July 31, 2009, when the Federation of Indian Airlines announced the threat to strike on August 18, the statement of the Chairman of Jet Airways was there for everyone to view.
He said: “We are bleeding. If the ATF taxes are not brought down and the government does not come forward to help the airlines, we have to close down”. The financial position of Jet Airways has not improved dramatically since July 31, to blame the pilots for its current financial woes.
The Guild
The National Aviatiors Guild was registered by the Regional Labour Commissioner on July 24. The two senior pilots of Jet Airways, who were both office-bearers of the newly formed NAG, were dismissed on July 31. The seed of the problem was sown by the Jet management with this single action.
Representations from the pilots were ignored by the management. When all their appeals fell on deaf ears, the NAG had no option but to issue a strike notice on August 24. This was absolutely legal under the Industrial Disputes Act.
The conciliation meeting under the auspices of the Labour Commissioner on August 31 did not produce the desired result and the management was asked to furnish the reasons for the sacking of the two pilots by September 7. They failed to comply and the Labour Commissioner fixed the next meeting for September 14.
The NAG withdrew the strike notice on the evening of September 7, but the members were agitated that the two pilots had not been reinstated. More than 300 of them reported sick.
The situation could have been salvaged the very next morning had the management reinstated the two pilots. This was the only demand of the pilots’ union. Instead, the management used a battery of high-profile lawyers to obtain a stay from the Mumbai High Court.
Meanwhile, Mr Goyal, instead of being in control of the crisis and solving the issue, chose to be in the power corridors of Delhi to mobilise the support of the Ministry and the DGCA. Fortunately, this move did not bear fruit and the authorities remained neutral.
Fuelling the crisis
The matter was pushed deeper into a crisis by terminating a few more senior captains and also obtaining a Contempt of Court order from Mumbai High Court, on September 9. This move has actually firmed up the determination of the pilots to keep close ranks in support of their dismissed colleagues. Mr Goyal fuelled the crisis by referring to the pilots as terrorists and his statement that he would bring in foreign pilots to cope with the situation.
On September 10, a public interest case was filed in Chennai High Court, highlighting the flight safety issues in the procedure for issuing permits to foreign pilots, who get preferential treatment over Indian pilots.
While the pilots were pilloried, all other airlines that were operating flights made a fast buck by charging exorbitant fares.
In all this, the only person who has come out a winner is the Director-General of Civil Aviation. In two months, he has quietly shown his mettle. When the Federation of Indian Airlines threatened to cancel flights on August 18, he cracked the whip and the threat dissipated.
When the Jet management went for indirect support, he stood firm by remaining neutral. At the same time, he has come down heavily on airlines exploiting the situation by charging very high fares. He has also ordered monitoring of safety-related issues.
The short-sighted management decision in refusing to take back two pilots who were illegally sacked is costing the company almost Rs 15 crore a day. It is going to take several months for Jet’s credibility to return, even if the crisis is solved in the coming days.
(The author is an airline captain with 35 years flying experience. [email protected])
Jetting into an avoidable crisis
A. Ranganathan
The current crisis in Jet Airways was avoidable. The unfortunate developments have been blamed on the pilots of the National Aviators Guild — an entirely false impression. Pilot-bashing in the media reached its peak when the Jet Airways Chairman, Mr Naresh Goyal, referred to them as terrorists. This objectionable statement is what prompted me to write this article.
The spark for this unrest was set off by the action of the Jet management, when it summarily sacked two very senior captains. They were sent a single-line e-mail stating that they were terminated with immediate effect and no reasons were assigned. The Executive Director of Jet Airways, Mr Saroj Datta’s response to a question during a televised interview on a business channel, had a significant pointer. The conversation went something like this:
Q: Your present problems with your airline began when Capt Sam Thomas and Capt D. Balaram were sacked because they joined the National Aviator’s Guild. Why was that such an objectionable thing to do?
Dutta: I don’t think that is correct. Yes, they were a party to the formation of the Guild. But the reason they were sacked, or their services were terminated, is because there are internal rules, discipline and all sorts of things all of us are required to follow if an organisation is to function effectively and there were reasons for us to have to act as we did.
Obviously, the management did not want to admit that the reason for the sacking was entirely because the two captains were involved in the formation of the pilot’s union. The truth is in the open in the following interview with the Chairman of the airline, which can be viewed at:
Excl: Why the Jet boss won't give in-The Newshour-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos
Poor management
Mr Goyal states that the two captains went around coercing pilots into signing the union membership form, which is far from the truth. Forming a union is a citizen’s right. Creating an impression that a pilots’ union would increase the insurance charges for an airline is a myth.
The American Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) represents all the pilots in the largest civil aviation sector in the world.
Several major airlines worldwide have pilots’ unions. They do not pay higher insurance charges. On the contrary, airlines with a unionised set of pilots have a good safety record. Insurance rates are based on the safety records of an airline.
Jet Airway’s ills began with a string of poor management decisions, starting with the acquisition of Air Sahara. With the collapse of the US financial sector during the Black September of 2008, reality set in. On July 31, 2009, when the Federation of Indian Airlines announced the threat to strike on August 18, the statement of the Chairman of Jet Airways was there for everyone to view.
He said: “We are bleeding. If the ATF taxes are not brought down and the government does not come forward to help the airlines, we have to close down”. The financial position of Jet Airways has not improved dramatically since July 31, to blame the pilots for its current financial woes.
The Guild
The National Aviatiors Guild was registered by the Regional Labour Commissioner on July 24. The two senior pilots of Jet Airways, who were both office-bearers of the newly formed NAG, were dismissed on July 31. The seed of the problem was sown by the Jet management with this single action.
Representations from the pilots were ignored by the management. When all their appeals fell on deaf ears, the NAG had no option but to issue a strike notice on August 24. This was absolutely legal under the Industrial Disputes Act.
The conciliation meeting under the auspices of the Labour Commissioner on August 31 did not produce the desired result and the management was asked to furnish the reasons for the sacking of the two pilots by September 7. They failed to comply and the Labour Commissioner fixed the next meeting for September 14.
The NAG withdrew the strike notice on the evening of September 7, but the members were agitated that the two pilots had not been reinstated. More than 300 of them reported sick.
The situation could have been salvaged the very next morning had the management reinstated the two pilots. This was the only demand of the pilots’ union. Instead, the management used a battery of high-profile lawyers to obtain a stay from the Mumbai High Court.
Meanwhile, Mr Goyal, instead of being in control of the crisis and solving the issue, chose to be in the power corridors of Delhi to mobilise the support of the Ministry and the DGCA. Fortunately, this move did not bear fruit and the authorities remained neutral.
Fuelling the crisis
The matter was pushed deeper into a crisis by terminating a few more senior captains and also obtaining a Contempt of Court order from Mumbai High Court, on September 9. This move has actually firmed up the determination of the pilots to keep close ranks in support of their dismissed colleagues. Mr Goyal fuelled the crisis by referring to the pilots as terrorists and his statement that he would bring in foreign pilots to cope with the situation.
On September 10, a public interest case was filed in Chennai High Court, highlighting the flight safety issues in the procedure for issuing permits to foreign pilots, who get preferential treatment over Indian pilots.
While the pilots were pilloried, all other airlines that were operating flights made a fast buck by charging exorbitant fares.
In all this, the only person who has come out a winner is the Director-General of Civil Aviation. In two months, he has quietly shown his mettle. When the Federation of Indian Airlines threatened to cancel flights on August 18, he cracked the whip and the threat dissipated.
When the Jet management went for indirect support, he stood firm by remaining neutral. At the same time, he has come down heavily on airlines exploiting the situation by charging very high fares. He has also ordered monitoring of safety-related issues.
The short-sighted management decision in refusing to take back two pilots who were illegally sacked is costing the company almost Rs 15 crore a day. It is going to take several months for Jet’s credibility to return, even if the crisis is solved in the coming days.
(The author is an airline captain with 35 years flying experience. [email protected])
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Strike over.
no union....only a group to represent the pilots.
No penalisation for the strike & all 4 pilots sacked earlier to return.
should be back to normal in 24-48hrs.
no union....only a group to represent the pilots.
No penalisation for the strike & all 4 pilots sacked earlier to return.
should be back to normal in 24-48hrs.
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Gentleman,
You needn't worry about new expats coming in to replace Indians. We all know the process will take a minimum of 3 mos. I don't care what the DGCA or aviation ministry does or says. There are other government bodies that have to contend with bringing in an Expat. If just one of them does not cooperate the processs can take even longer.
Then there is this little issue called PAY
. Fortunately for Jet national pilots, the company decided to withhold pay for expats too. And they've been late for the past 4 months. Nobody wants to come fly in such an environment. Sure there will be some who are willing to work against the Jet pilots efforts but NOBODY will come fly for free. The remaining expats have no choice since they are already owed money, though they will eventually withdraw their services if pay keeps getting delayed.
Jet mgmt already made sure that a left seat job with them is no longer a enviable position to hold. Expats were kicked out en-masse late last year and in early 2009. Their reputation for treatment of foreign pilots was already suspect. Now with the late pay I doubt they'll find anyone.
You needn't worry about new expats coming in to replace Indians. We all know the process will take a minimum of 3 mos. I don't care what the DGCA or aviation ministry does or says. There are other government bodies that have to contend with bringing in an Expat. If just one of them does not cooperate the processs can take even longer.
Then there is this little issue called PAY
. Fortunately for Jet national pilots, the company decided to withhold pay for expats too. And they've been late for the past 4 months. Nobody wants to come fly in such an environment. Sure there will be some who are willing to work against the Jet pilots efforts but NOBODY will come fly for free. The remaining expats have no choice since they are already owed money, though they will eventually withdraw their services if pay keeps getting delayed.Jet mgmt already made sure that a left seat job with them is no longer a enviable position to hold. Expats were kicked out en-masse late last year and in early 2009. Their reputation for treatment of foreign pilots was already suspect. Now with the late pay I doubt they'll find anyone.
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Expats aren't here working against the national pilots! It's this kind of small, petty, selfish mantality that will make Indian aviation less safe. There are not enouph QUALIFIED nationals to occupy the left seat. No company wants a higher payroll period. All the Indian company's understand the nationals have limited flight experience. When they are ready to upgrade at Jet they are given the opportunity on the ATR, which is more often than not turned down. A turboprop is beneath the dignity of many national pilots.
In the US there are pilots from all over the world. They are included in the unions, embraced by the pilot groups. The US has gives more good paying jobs to Indians than India can even come close to returning.
You're not entitled to a commandor position just because you are a national. You carry the lives of millions of people in your hands. Until you understand safety is more important than EGO, there will always be expats.
In the US there are pilots from all over the world. They are included in the unions, embraced by the pilot groups. The US has gives more good paying jobs to Indians than India can even come close to returning.
You're not entitled to a commandor position just because you are a national. You carry the lives of millions of people in your hands. Until you understand safety is more important than EGO, there will always be expats.
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reality bites
there will be always be two sides( or more ) to every issue, but lets get this clear....we all ( ALL ) know that expats bring in a lot of expertise and experience to new fleets especially...thats the reason they are paid more too..
now after a few years when the locals have enough experience and are made trainers..its time to upgrade your own pilots who obviously meet the QR's for such an upgrade as per company SOP.
fair enough...lets not confuse safety with expats...
737overshot the runway in mumbai trainer was expat
crj landed on the wrong runway in vecc trainer was expat
A 320 broke some runway edge lights in vobl capt was expat
i can go on and on and so can you about us...but no airline/trainer will ignore/compromise flight safety while upgading pilots..I sincerely believe
in that...so no generalisations please...we respect each other but one has to go back...thats a reality of being an EXPAT.
now after a few years when the locals have enough experience and are made trainers..its time to upgrade your own pilots who obviously meet the QR's for such an upgrade as per company SOP.
fair enough...lets not confuse safety with expats...
737overshot the runway in mumbai trainer was expat
crj landed on the wrong runway in vecc trainer was expat
A 320 broke some runway edge lights in vobl capt was expat
i can go on and on and so can you about us...but no airline/trainer will ignore/compromise flight safety while upgading pilots..I sincerely believe
in that...so no generalisations please...we respect each other but one has to go back...thats a reality of being an EXPAT.
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Your right no group is perfect. Expats are paid very little for their expertise. They are paid out of need. Companies need captains and the only way they will come from a higher standard of living to a place like this, is with MAJOR incentives.
My question to you is why out of 12 nationals offered an upgrade to captain on the ATR, did only 1 take the position? If these guys were really wanting to gain experience they wouldn't turn this opportunity down. Ego drives the need for upgrade directly into a Jet. This is not a person I want flying my family! This does not mean all Indian pilots fall into this statement.
My question to you is why out of 12 nationals offered an upgrade to captain on the ATR, did only 1 take the position? If these guys were really wanting to gain experience they wouldn't turn this opportunity down. Ego drives the need for upgrade directly into a Jet. This is not a person I want flying my family! This does not mean all Indian pilots fall into this statement.