Singapore's Newest Flight School: Scam or the real thing
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Well, we will have to agree to differ. In my experience, i have seen many guys who fly the simulator beautifully, yet are pathetic in the airlane. And conversely, i've seen numerous fellas fly the airplane like it was second nature to them, yet were useless in the sim. You MPL guys put too much faith & credence in the simulator - sooner or later you'll find out the truth.
On a personal level, it still remains that no MPL F/O will get any flying in my flight deck for a very long time, were i ever to fly with one. Period.
On a personal level, it still remains that no MPL F/O will get any flying in my flight deck for a very long time, were i ever to fly with one. Period.
Last edited by gengis; 1st Sep 2009 at 05:50.
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I think our opinion are not far away from each other. I completly agree with you that sim is not aircraft and people behave differently, mainly it's a mental problem (i.e. they panic if the conditions get complex).
I would say, the first time you fly with an MPL, you wont even notice (if nobody tells you). But I guess you fly heavy metal, so you wont ever see one.
To summarize it again I repeat that "our" MPLs get nearly as much real flying instruction as the normal ab-initio guys. It's not a matter of hours, but the way they get lessons.
Roger and out,
Dani
I would say, the first time you fly with an MPL, you wont even notice (if nobody tells you). But I guess you fly heavy metal, so you wont ever see one.
To summarize it again I repeat that "our" MPLs get nearly as much real flying instruction as the normal ab-initio guys. It's not a matter of hours, but the way they get lessons.
Roger and out,
Dani
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I can tell inexperience a mile off - especially those that are of the canned & scripted type that comes from flying merely in simulated situations.
You can keep "your" MPLs
You can keep "your" MPLs
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I spoke to a very well connected friend of mine who is part of Singapore's powers to be and here is what he had to say about all this:
The recent article in The Straits Times and all the hype of STATA doing the MCPL is not going to materialize in Singapore for another 5-6 years at the earliest. The CAAS has too many unanswered questions, the demand for so many pilot's just does not exist, and a very small minority of authorities have approved it as is yet, etc. Yes, when MCPL does get CAAS approval someday then STATA could very well make a lot of money but until then they will be carried by the income generated from sending students to Australia and the parent company Singapore Technologies.
Also, as indicated in The Straits Times, you will hear plenty of hype about many of the Poly's having a MOU's with big fish such as Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Why? Well that is all about hooking up and making the Singapore Poly's into Colleges / Universities in the near future so that they can then award accredited degrees someday instead of just Diploma's. I think that part is good for the country with just 3 major Universities here and everything else is imported in making it quite difficult for those that live here.
The big fish such as Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University are also hoping to make lot's of money of it too.
The recent article in The Straits Times and all the hype of STATA doing the MCPL is not going to materialize in Singapore for another 5-6 years at the earliest. The CAAS has too many unanswered questions, the demand for so many pilot's just does not exist, and a very small minority of authorities have approved it as is yet, etc. Yes, when MCPL does get CAAS approval someday then STATA could very well make a lot of money but until then they will be carried by the income generated from sending students to Australia and the parent company Singapore Technologies.
Also, as indicated in The Straits Times, you will hear plenty of hype about many of the Poly's having a MOU's with big fish such as Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Why? Well that is all about hooking up and making the Singapore Poly's into Colleges / Universities in the near future so that they can then award accredited degrees someday instead of just Diploma's. I think that part is good for the country with just 3 major Universities here and everything else is imported in making it quite difficult for those that live here.
The big fish such as Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University are also hoping to make lot's of money of it too.
N4790P
and a very small minority of authorities have approved it as is yet
Denmark
Philippines
Australia
China
UK
At APATS in Hong Kong this week, nothing but good was said about the results from the initial MPL program run by Boeing and now other major training organisations including Lufthansa are fully committing themselves to MPL programs.
N4790P
Tiger Airways partners ST Aerospace for Singapore's first MPL
ST Aerospace announced that its commercial pilot training academy, ST Aviation Training Academy (STATA), has partnered with low fare airline Tiger Airways for pilot training on its fleet of Airbus A320 under STATA’s Multi-crew Pilot Licence (MPL) curriculum. The MPL programme is the first in Singapore and will kick off with six cadet pilots.
The pilot programme will begin in October and last approximately two years. The student pilots will first undergo ground school in Singapore and flight training in Ballarat, Australia, before embarking on further flight training in multi-crew environment in Singapore. Upon programme completion, STATA - in close collaboration with major industry players as stakeholders that include national aviation authorities, educational institutions, simulation experts and renowned aviation professionals - will evaluate and validate the trial. The six students are expected to graduate together, and will receive an MPL issued by the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS).
On successful completion of the course, Tiger Airways plans to provide the selected trainees with Conditional Contracts of Employment, subject to the MPL licence that will be issued by CAAS, the trainees meeting the carrier’s stringent flying standards and the prevalent pilot requirement of the airline.
Tiger Airways, a leader among low fare airlines, believes that investing in training is one important way of ensuring that Singapore and the industry maintain high standards of pilot professionalism and safety for air travellers. The carrier is also a leader in championing Singapore’s aspirations to be the aviation hub of Asia and provide employment opportunities in the industry.
"Tiger Airways has provided and will continue to provide the relevant oversight on the MPL programme to ensure that all procedures are in accordance with the carrier’s standard operating procedures, which are among the best in the industry. Working with STATA, we will also hone our skills in interviewing techniques to select the best candidates for the inaugural programme."
~ Rosalynn TAY, Managing Director, Tiger Airways Singapore
"In ensuring that our MPL programme is properly developed, we had taken a consultative approach with our stakeholders. We are committed to the quality of our training programmes, and will ensure that our MPL programme is an effective one. It is with this same conviction in quality and higher flying safety that we believe the MPL curriculum is the way of the future for airlines’ pilot training. Compared to traditional methods involving long hours of flying alone on a piston-engine aircraft, MPL employs an enhanced and proper use of state-of-the-art simulation that promotes a multi-crew environment of modern airlines, which will better prepare students for the actual multi-crew operations in their future careers, at the same time making it easier for airlines to determine when pilots will be available for line operations. Although the training duration for an MPL is not necessarily shorter, it offers airlines a more timely delivery of pilots. We are proud to spearhead this initiative with our partners, Tiger Airways and CAAS."
~ Eddie ONG, President, STATA
"As an enabler of the growth of the aviation industry, one of CAAS’ strategic focuses is human resource development. CAAS is pleased to work in close partnership with key industry stakeholders in advancing this important area; in this case STATA and Tiger Airways. The MPL initiative offers an alternative means of pilot training that is both innovative and efficient, and at the same time ensures that pilots are licensed in accordance to CAAS’ standards. The programme will help airlines meet their need for qualified pilots as the demand for air travel grows further."
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Are we on the right track???
Dear all....
1) There is no shortage of Singaporean pilots at the moment. Some of us have been jobless for a very long time while some of us have been instructing in Malaysian academies, from Johor Bahru right up to Sandakan!
2) As flying instructors we agree that the MPL progammes have not proved to be better or superrior to conventional training methods.
3) The talk about MPL has been around since 2006 but many airlines still are not convinced.
4) There is no real need at the moment to give young boys false hope that there is a big demand for MPL trained pilots (its going to be worst for these boys because if they can't secure a job with the airline, they can't even become instructors due to the reduced actual flight experience).
5) I hope that CAAS becomes more transparent with their views on this MPL programme rather than keeping everybody in suspended suspense!
6) Lastly, I think it would be a good idea for local airlines to start hiring Singaporeans who have been working across the causeway for sometime now.
1) There is no shortage of Singaporean pilots at the moment. Some of us have been jobless for a very long time while some of us have been instructing in Malaysian academies, from Johor Bahru right up to Sandakan!
2) As flying instructors we agree that the MPL progammes have not proved to be better or superrior to conventional training methods.
3) The talk about MPL has been around since 2006 but many airlines still are not convinced.
4) There is no real need at the moment to give young boys false hope that there is a big demand for MPL trained pilots (its going to be worst for these boys because if they can't secure a job with the airline, they can't even become instructors due to the reduced actual flight experience).
5) I hope that CAAS becomes more transparent with their views on this MPL programme rather than keeping everybody in suspended suspense!
6) Lastly, I think it would be a good idea for local airlines to start hiring Singaporeans who have been working across the causeway for sometime now.
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reviving this thread(and prob my first post):
I see that STATA's first batch of pilots have graduated. Anyone knows if they're employed?
I'm seriously considering STATA, but I don't want to relive the nightmare of the poor bloke who paid his own way through SFC and not even being granted an interview by SIA.
I see that STATA's first batch of pilots have graduated. Anyone knows if they're employed?
I'm seriously considering STATA, but I don't want to relive the nightmare of the poor bloke who paid his own way through SFC and not even being granted an interview by SIA.
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Well the first 3 batches of STATA's ATPL course graduated with CASA license so they were pretty much screwed 
(one guy got into SFC and had to redo everything). The 4th batch (first batch with CAAS issued) just graduated and have had to source for airlines on their own. I understand they are applying to tiger or Jetstar ( have to fund their own type rating).
First batch of STATA MPL graduated not too long ago. They just cleared their line checks and are flying with Tiger already.
(one guy got into SFC and had to redo everything). The 4th batch (first batch with CAAS issued) just graduated and have had to source for airlines on their own. I understand they are applying to tiger or Jetstar ( have to fund their own type rating). First batch of STATA MPL graduated not too long ago. They just cleared their line checks and are flying with Tiger already.
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Cavoknot, do you know if the 700hrs rule still in force? Because a few months back I talked to the Jetstar people and they said that for their advanced cadets, CAAS requires 700hrs, so if the rule is still in force, those STATA cadets are pretty much screwed isnt it?
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hmm from what I understand from CTC ACP requirements, if you have the CAAS licence, then the 700h doesnt apply? only applies if u have a foreign licence like CASA and that's when you need 700h to convert? prob a loophole there to help CAAS holders
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If you have a CAAS licence then the 700 hours need not apply. Any other foreign licence you'll need to meet that requirement for conversion purposes. There were talks about changing this rule but I don't know what's the progress of it so far.
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Hi Bloodsucker,
Yes the 700 hours is for foreign license conversion. So they are pretty screwed. However even with CAAS the ATPL needs to be unfrozen with 1500 hours. So unless airlines open up their doors more for ab-intio, it is very hard. Most have to go down the instructor route to gain the neccessary hours.
Yes the 700 hours is for foreign license conversion. So they are pretty screwed. However even with CAAS the ATPL needs to be unfrozen with 1500 hours. So unless airlines open up their doors more for ab-intio, it is very hard. Most have to go down the instructor route to gain the neccessary hours.
