Bangkok Airways crash at Kho Samui airport
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@ Dani
Not true, you have the advantage of quick response through propwash when advancing the power levers and flat pitch on the prop when in idle. The ATR is certified for 45 knots xwind landing. Most jets for 25...
Also turboprops are somewhat more difficult to handle in crosswind
The Cooler King
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postman23 - before the flight simmers get all moist.....
....while the ATR can land in a 45 kt x wind.......it applies to a dry runway which is clearly not the case here.
Farrell
....while the ATR can land in a 45 kt x wind.......it applies to a dry runway which is clearly not the case here.
Farrell
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My theory developed while flying in this neck of the woods, is that a thunderstorm coupled with a 15 kt. crosswind caused the water to stay on the runway, greatly reducing the braking action, which was never reported.Generally twice round the hold and the storm passed, the wind changed and the runway drained naturally.
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Is the building part demolished by the port wing the Fire Station? Very close to the action if it is.
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Not true, you have the advantage of quick response through propwash when advancing the power levers and flat pitch on the prop when in idle
Of course you have to reduce propeller resistance and ad forward thrust, but as I said, you have to do the right thing, otherwise you loose control.
Dani
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Got that today in the mail
Date: 04 AUG 2009
Time: ca 14:30
Type: ATR-72-212A
Operator: Bangkok Airways
Registration: HS-PGL
C/n / msn: 670
First flight: 2001
Engines: 2
Crew: Fatalities: 1 / Occupants: 4
Passengers: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 0
Total: Fatalities: 1 / Occupants: 72
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: Koh Samui Airport (USM) (Thailand)
Phase: Landing
Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: Krabi Airport (KBV)
Destination airport: Koh Samui Airport (USM)
Flightnumber: 266
A Bangkok Airways ATR-72 passenger plane was substantially damaged when it skidded off the runway at Koh Samui. The airplane collided with the airport control tower building. METAR about the time of the accident (07:30 UTC): VTSM 040700Z 29015KT 9000 FEW020TCU SCT120 BKN300 31/25 Q1007 A2974 TCU-NW= [Wind 290 degrees at 15 knots; few clouds at 2,000 ft; scattered clouds at 12,000 ft; broken clouds at 30,000 ft; Temperature 31 deg C; dew point 25 deg C.; 1007 MB; Towering CB to the Northwest]
Sources:
» Bangkok Post
» Bangkok Airways
looks like the pilot is dead.
Date: 04 AUG 2009
Time: ca 14:30
Type: ATR-72-212A
Operator: Bangkok Airways
Registration: HS-PGL
C/n / msn: 670
First flight: 2001
Engines: 2
Crew: Fatalities: 1 / Occupants: 4
Passengers: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 0
Total: Fatalities: 1 / Occupants: 72
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: Koh Samui Airport (USM) (Thailand)
Phase: Landing
Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: Krabi Airport (KBV)
Destination airport: Koh Samui Airport (USM)
Flightnumber: 266
A Bangkok Airways ATR-72 passenger plane was substantially damaged when it skidded off the runway at Koh Samui. The airplane collided with the airport control tower building. METAR about the time of the accident (07:30 UTC): VTSM 040700Z 29015KT 9000 FEW020TCU SCT120 BKN300 31/25 Q1007 A2974 TCU-NW= [Wind 290 degrees at 15 knots; few clouds at 2,000 ft; scattered clouds at 12,000 ft; broken clouds at 30,000 ft; Temperature 31 deg C; dew point 25 deg C.; 1007 MB; Towering CB to the Northwest]
Sources:
» Bangkok Post
» Bangkok Airways
looks like the pilot is dead.
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Not sure if this belongs here or in jet blast...Audio is in Thai.
YouTube - Ongeluk op Koh Samui 2009
YouTube - Ongeluk op Koh Samui 2009
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Reversers
I agree absolutely. Reverse or even Beta on most turboprops can bite very hard. If you try to use it asymetrically and then come across a patch of standing water, where you suddenly loose tyre grip, you can get a very nasty surprise. Similiarly, rear mounted jets in reverse are known for merrily pulling you off the runway when you start aquaplaning, as was suggested earlier in this thread.
Regards.
Regards.
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Crosswind Limits
The ATR72 has a lower max crosswind component than the 42. For the 72 the limit is 35 kts on a dry runway (width equal to or greater than 30m), and if the runway is less than 30m wide, the dry limit becomes 25 kts. They are good to handle in crosswinds but can be unforgiving in the wet with high crosswind components. The longer fuselage of the 72 coupled with strong crosswind components requires high vigilance.
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A video of a recent event in Indonesia I believe demonstrated the above concepts with a turbo-prop runway excursion to the right followed by #2 engine prop-strike and blades coming loose at high RPM and many feet pounding the tarmac. On Youtube.
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Further to OutOfRunways post
QUOTE from Samuijack on ThaiVisa.com
I witnessed this tragic accident and was listening on my airband radio.
Two airbus aircraft took off on runway 35 in short succession, at the same time as the ATR72 reported downwind for runway 35 and asked for a wind check. The tower informed him the wind as 300/15kts. The pilot reported turning base and was given the wind as 290/18kts and cleared to land. At this time it began to rain heavily and I was interested to see the landing. The pilot seemed to make a textbook landing and continued down the centerline of the runway ,slowing down, to a point apposite the terminal building (maybe 500 meters) when it seemed he applied the brakes and the plane turned 90 degrees left (as if the right hand brakes failed) colliding head on into the old tower building.
UNQUOTE
I witnessed this tragic accident and was listening on my airband radio.
Two airbus aircraft took off on runway 35 in short succession, at the same time as the ATR72 reported downwind for runway 35 and asked for a wind check. The tower informed him the wind as 300/15kts. The pilot reported turning base and was given the wind as 290/18kts and cleared to land. At this time it began to rain heavily and I was interested to see the landing. The pilot seemed to make a textbook landing and continued down the centerline of the runway ,slowing down, to a point apposite the terminal building (maybe 500 meters) when it seemed he applied the brakes and the plane turned 90 degrees left (as if the right hand brakes failed) colliding head on into the old tower building.
UNQUOTE
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Width?
During the discussion of the previous crash at Phuket, concerns were raised that the clearances either side of the runway were not to the correct standards.
Does the same concern apply here?
Does the same concern apply here?
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It is a good job that the aircraft didn't swerve to the right and go into the passenger terminal which is opposite the old ATC tower.
However I feel that there may be a small water ditch on the terminal side.
It must have been very horrifying to waiting passengers as they were sitting in the lounge chairs close to the runway.
We will have to wait for the official enquiry which one would hope is not a cover up like the Phuket one, but it seem like samuijack has added some very valuable information.
The co-pilots version of events will perhaps corrabate that.
Personally I have always found PG to be a good and safe airline.
However I feel that there may be a small water ditch on the terminal side.
It must have been very horrifying to waiting passengers as they were sitting in the lounge chairs close to the runway.
We will have to wait for the official enquiry which one would hope is not a cover up like the Phuket one, but it seem like samuijack has added some very valuable information.
The co-pilots version of events will perhaps corrabate that.
Personally I have always found PG to be a good and safe airline.
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Reverse not selected?
In the video linked in post #50 it looks to me that the right propeller blades are not in the reverse thrust position (0:10s in the video). If that is the case, would that suggest reverse was not effected in this propeller? Or maybe the a/c veered off at very low ground speed?
Last edited by 35hPA28; 5th Aug 2009 at 19:27. Reason: Spelling
N4790P
The co-pilots version of events will perhaps corrabate that.