Korean Air
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Los Angeles, Wigtownshire
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9 days off + 2 AL which you can bank if you want + 3 days travel allowed for capt and 2 days for fo. Minimum requirement of days to work each month as duty limits are based on calender month and not rotating 28/30 days hence the min limit. Normally days off requested given with no problem, however over Korean/Chinese holidays expect to work and Capts can sometimes expect to work over xmas due to number of foreign capts. Back to back leave over end/start of month sometimes allowed if you travel a long distance home but not always. Generally very good on scheduling, the downside is you are of course working your butt off to clock up the hours during your time at work especially if you banked the days and say took 16days off in a month. This is however all worth it for the time off at home. Hope this helps
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: TN
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Sorry you think my advice was stupid....
so let's see - you have:
zero time as an airline captain - biz jets don't count
zero asian training experience
an apparent attitude to disregard opinions from individuals that have both of the above
I spent 20 yrs at DAL and was lucky enough to land at SIA when things went south at your former airline. You want to take on the KAL meatgrinder? Have at it.....
so let's see - you have:
zero time as an airline captain - biz jets don't count
zero asian training experience
an apparent attitude to disregard opinions from individuals that have both of the above
I spent 20 yrs at DAL and was lucky enough to land at SIA when things went south at your former airline. You want to take on the KAL meatgrinder? Have at it.....
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southeast USA
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Could someone tell me what about Asian Flying is so different (and be specific about cultural differences please). What did the ex-SIA ex-DAL pilots bring to Korean that a Westerner doesn't have. I just found out a friend washed out of KAL, he went through 4 months of training, sims etc, and the last I heard he was headed into his casa oral and IOE . He washed out on either of those two things. He admitted that many others washed out also but has yet to give me a 'failure rate'. This in the last few weeks. How can an airline continue to train and fail to train what a person needs to pass to get to the line?
I would prefer to hear from someone who is now flying for KAL and maybe even from an ex-SIA ex-DAL guy who has the personal hindsight and insight into the problems of westerners adjusting to the Asian culture.
I have flown in the region both in a C141 and a B777 but am wondering what someone with my experience needs to bring to the table to succeed in that culture. I was passed by for any screening due to my gender, so I know there are cultural differences even I can't get around, but what about the guys.
Specific help, like don't hit on the FAs or bow to the inspector or don't look into their eyes, or "of course you are right thank you for your help"----that's the kind of cultural aid that most westerners need. Please help others put food on their families table with good advice not the berating I see so often on this thread.
KAL looks on paper as a good gig but it isn't if you can't get past the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
I would prefer to hear from someone who is now flying for KAL and maybe even from an ex-SIA ex-DAL guy who has the personal hindsight and insight into the problems of westerners adjusting to the Asian culture.
I have flown in the region both in a C141 and a B777 but am wondering what someone with my experience needs to bring to the table to succeed in that culture. I was passed by for any screening due to my gender, so I know there are cultural differences even I can't get around, but what about the guys.
Specific help, like don't hit on the FAs or bow to the inspector or don't look into their eyes, or "of course you are right thank you for your help"----that's the kind of cultural aid that most westerners need. Please help others put food on their families table with good advice not the berating I see so often on this thread.
KAL looks on paper as a good gig but it isn't if you can't get past the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Worldwide
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Buzz:
Probably not. They will not promise you an upgrade, indeed they will probably tell you it is impossible. But a short while ago they would "never" hire foreign F/O's.
Go figure...
Probably not. They will not promise you an upgrade, indeed they will probably tell you it is impossible. But a short while ago they would "never" hire foreign F/O's.
Go figure...
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: TN
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chris777
prior asian (training) experience is invaluable - sounds too simple to be true I know, but the results speak for themselves. I don't mean to put down any unsuccessful KAL guys, but look at the differences in success rates.
To my knowledge:
former DAL with asian experience (3) - KAL success (3) - these were all former SIA
former DAL without asian experience (> 4) - KAL success (0)
prior asian (training) experience is invaluable - sounds too simple to be true I know, but the results speak for themselves. I don't mean to put down any unsuccessful KAL guys, but look at the differences in success rates.
To my knowledge:
former DAL with asian experience (3) - KAL success (3) - these were all former SIA
former DAL without asian experience (> 4) - KAL success (0)
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Hey KK Pilot,
You have no clue as to my experience. If you know what a BBJ is you would know that it is a B737-700IGW, ITS A B737!! Just in a corporate configuration, and I have over 1500 hours as PIC on that aircraft. The one that I fly has a range of over 6700 NM with the aux tanks and winglets, and we fly many 14+ hour legs on it all of the time all over the world. 98% of my flying since I left DAL has been International ops all over the world. I have worked for the past 2 years in the Middle east training pilots as a TRI. Over there I had to deal with the Middle Eastern mentality, training pilots from all cultures and if you think that the asian mentality is rough, well try some of the Middle Eastern ones. Just because I have been a Corporate Pilot for the past 8 years does not mean that DAL was my first airline. I was laid off before when i flew on a B727 for a freight operator that went under.
I don't think that I have an attitude problem with other pilots opinions, but it seems that you have one for just answering someones honest questions that someone asks
I asked a few questions and wanted some simple answers which is what I got without any wise remarks
Don't always judge a book by its cover
You have no clue as to my experience. If you know what a BBJ is you would know that it is a B737-700IGW, ITS A B737!! Just in a corporate configuration, and I have over 1500 hours as PIC on that aircraft. The one that I fly has a range of over 6700 NM with the aux tanks and winglets, and we fly many 14+ hour legs on it all of the time all over the world. 98% of my flying since I left DAL has been International ops all over the world. I have worked for the past 2 years in the Middle east training pilots as a TRI. Over there I had to deal with the Middle Eastern mentality, training pilots from all cultures and if you think that the asian mentality is rough, well try some of the Middle Eastern ones. Just because I have been a Corporate Pilot for the past 8 years does not mean that DAL was my first airline. I was laid off before when i flew on a B727 for a freight operator that went under.
I don't think that I have an attitude problem with other pilots opinions, but it seems that you have one for just answering someones honest questions that someone asks
I asked a few questions and wanted some simple answers which is what I got without any wise remarks
Don't always judge a book by its cover
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: To infinity, and beyond!
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kk sorry
i didn't mean to disregard your suggestions!
... and as you elegantly point it out, I probably do not have a lot of experience either, but try to be just for a moment in my pants while you are reading the good (I should say excellent!) package deal that KAL is offering despite this big economic crash!
I'm just trying to collect all the possible information I can get (to include reading "The Clash of Civilizations: And the Remaking of World Order").
so sorry again if I induce in you the improper feeling of not giving enough importance to your post!
i didn't mean to disregard your suggestions!
... and as you elegantly point it out, I probably do not have a lot of experience either, but try to be just for a moment in my pants while you are reading the good (I should say excellent!) package deal that KAL is offering despite this big economic crash!
I'm just trying to collect all the possible information I can get (to include reading "The Clash of Civilizations: And the Remaking of World Order").
so sorry again if I induce in you the improper feeling of not giving enough importance to your post!
Join Date: May 2007
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ASIAN AVIATION CULTURE
3 big words, one small conclusion: Tactfulness
Western pilots, one BIG problem: Over-assertiveness
Case in point:
Asian Trainer (20++ years as trainer, 30++ years as pilot): Your X-wind landing technique should be flown with crab angle, and X-control right at the last 100ft.
Western pilot (25++years as Pilot, 8 on the deck on F14, 5 as copilot and the rest PIC on DC 10 & 767): I DISAGREE. X-control should be initiated much earlier for better feel, control and eventual safer landing.
Any problem with the above small exchange? A mature and good Asian trainer and a western pilot would shake hands to AGREE to disagree.
The safest solution? Which apparently according to some of my American friends, could be difficult to swallow, was to just nod and smile: Oh I see, thanks for that pointer, I will look into it.
Many of you may think what is the big freaking deal now? Well, if you have to ask this question, then you belong to the 2nd group of Pilots that KK PILOT had quite accurately illustrated.
The hard part? Try now to think of incorporating this into every aspect of your dealings with trainers during your conversion, despite what your long stern and well built experience had told you that some instructions may not be the best suggestions or not even worth listening to. NOW you can understand how some will suffer more than others as there are chaps that I just could not convince to accept this small humility even though they were in need of their jobs.
My final advice? Be sincere in wanting to really listen to what the trainer has to say, if he (no she so far, sorry Chris777) is mean spirited and wishes to give you hard time; you can't escape anyway. So might as well just carry on to make sure that the flight is as safe as your PIC experience tells you to do so in the most pleasant manner you could think of, whilst accommodating as amicably as you can to any corrective statements from the trainer by swallowing your pride. I'm sure Batsky2000 will tell you even this does not work with some from where he has gone to before. But I can assure you, in most part of ASIA; you should do just fine.
Of course right after you have checked out on line flying, it's a different story all together.
3 big words, one small conclusion: Tactfulness
Western pilots, one BIG problem: Over-assertiveness
Case in point:
Asian Trainer (20++ years as trainer, 30++ years as pilot): Your X-wind landing technique should be flown with crab angle, and X-control right at the last 100ft.
Western pilot (25++years as Pilot, 8 on the deck on F14, 5 as copilot and the rest PIC on DC 10 & 767): I DISAGREE. X-control should be initiated much earlier for better feel, control and eventual safer landing.
Any problem with the above small exchange? A mature and good Asian trainer and a western pilot would shake hands to AGREE to disagree.
The safest solution? Which apparently according to some of my American friends, could be difficult to swallow, was to just nod and smile: Oh I see, thanks for that pointer, I will look into it.
Many of you may think what is the big freaking deal now? Well, if you have to ask this question, then you belong to the 2nd group of Pilots that KK PILOT had quite accurately illustrated.
The hard part? Try now to think of incorporating this into every aspect of your dealings with trainers during your conversion, despite what your long stern and well built experience had told you that some instructions may not be the best suggestions or not even worth listening to. NOW you can understand how some will suffer more than others as there are chaps that I just could not convince to accept this small humility even though they were in need of their jobs.
My final advice? Be sincere in wanting to really listen to what the trainer has to say, if he (no she so far, sorry Chris777) is mean spirited and wishes to give you hard time; you can't escape anyway. So might as well just carry on to make sure that the flight is as safe as your PIC experience tells you to do so in the most pleasant manner you could think of, whilst accommodating as amicably as you can to any corrective statements from the trainer by swallowing your pride. I'm sure Batsky2000 will tell you even this does not work with some from where he has gone to before. But I can assure you, in most part of ASIA; you should do just fine.
Of course right after you have checked out on line flying, it's a different story all together.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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batsky
so you do have prior asian training experience and airline Captain experience as well....funny, I must have missed that
my apologies.......I'll keep my opinions/advice to myself in the future lest I demean your obviously superior experience level.
so you do have prior asian training experience and airline Captain experience as well....funny, I must have missed that
my apologies.......I'll keep my opinions/advice to myself in the future lest I demean your obviously superior experience level.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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commuting part
FOs commute on coach upgradable to business to duty and only coach when returning back to their home base.
How does it work in practice. Do they really give you the business class on the way there.
Why don't they give you the same on your way back as it does not cost the company anything if the seats are available.
Capt fly on business/first both ways. And why the 3 days commuting for them. Are they slow movers or live more far than FO's
Discriminating isn't it?
Did somebody tried to change the contract on that before signing. Any other agency has something different?
I was not born in the C class, but working long haul for 4 years already and commuting every month, I really need some stretch...
How does it work in practice. Do they really give you the business class on the way there.
Why don't they give you the same on your way back as it does not cost the company anything if the seats are available.
Capt fly on business/first both ways. And why the 3 days commuting for them. Are they slow movers or live more far than FO's
Discriminating isn't it?
Did somebody tried to change the contract on that before signing. Any other agency has something different?
I was not born in the C class, but working long haul for 4 years already and commuting every month, I really need some stretch...
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Is that last post for real? If you don't like coach, just let them know at interview. That way you'll cut through a lot of wasted time. Think of it like this: you'd assist the Koreans appreciate how unfair their privilege and ranking system really is. Or not...
Batsky, take it easy. No-one is anti-Batsky. Just listen up, swallow your pride, put your hard-earned ideas aside and join KAL if you get the chance. In reality, and in KAL, B737 experience may see you into a B737. Good luck
Batsky, take it easy. No-one is anti-Batsky. Just listen up, swallow your pride, put your hard-earned ideas aside and join KAL if you get the chance. In reality, and in KAL, B737 experience may see you into a B737. Good luck
Join Date: Sep 2002
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4PW, do you think it is fair?
I am not crying about it, I simply ask how does it work and is it changeable?
I have been working for Asian Carriers for years, and real life is quite different from what they want you to sign in the contract...sometimes better but usually worse.
I am not crying about it, I simply ask how does it work and is it changeable?
I have been working for Asian Carriers for years, and real life is quite different from what they want you to sign in the contract...sometimes better but usually worse.