Indian Atpl renewal-Help!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Somewhere between MSL and the Stratosphere
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indian Atpl renewal-Help!
Hey guys,
An Indian buddy of mine was hired by Silk Air as a Captain on A320 some years ago.He was given the endorsment by Silk Air itself for which he was bonded for his contract period.Now due the downturn,when his contract came up for renewal,he was shown the door.Contract not renewed.Was a very good pilot in good books of the managment,but a downturn's a downturn! So,he's left high n dry.
My question is that since his original ATPL was Indian,with a 737NG endorsment as Captain,he would like to have the 320 endorsed on the indian atpl for a job back home in india.'A320 endorsed' because thats the airplane that he's been flying for the last 5 years,although in Sin,but nevertheless.And thats the airplane he's got all his international hours on.
Can anyone help how he might go about doing that.He's really in dire straits.Oh btw he had'nt gone back to india throughout his tenure in Sin for the purpose of doing an Indian medical.So his last INDIAN medical was some 5 years ago.
Need ALL the help I can get....
Many thanks in advance
An Indian buddy of mine was hired by Silk Air as a Captain on A320 some years ago.He was given the endorsment by Silk Air itself for which he was bonded for his contract period.Now due the downturn,when his contract came up for renewal,he was shown the door.Contract not renewed.Was a very good pilot in good books of the managment,but a downturn's a downturn! So,he's left high n dry.
My question is that since his original ATPL was Indian,with a 737NG endorsment as Captain,he would like to have the 320 endorsed on the indian atpl for a job back home in india.'A320 endorsed' because thats the airplane that he's been flying for the last 5 years,although in Sin,but nevertheless.And thats the airplane he's got all his international hours on.
Can anyone help how he might go about doing that.He's really in dire straits.Oh btw he had'nt gone back to india throughout his tenure in Sin for the purpose of doing an Indian medical.So his last INDIAN medical was some 5 years ago.
Need ALL the help I can get....
Many thanks in advance
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Big Blue Yonder
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe a good idea to talk to an A 320 operator in India and see if they can help him in the process.Airlines are still on the look out in India for experienced crew.But the Mid East has many jobs for guys like him..guess he should look there.Surprising that he was shown the door at Silk Air for as far as I know they did take in some new guys recently....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Somewhere between MSL and the Stratosphere
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I tried telling him the same.That he should look out for and get a job in the ME. But this guy seems hell bent on landing something in india.Says he knows of friends who've done the same.Just does'nt know how.Of course he'll probably have all the answers once he's in the mess called Dgca,India.....!!
The reason he wants to find work in india is a) He's originally from there and holds his original licence from India. b)Got all his relatives/friends/parents/property back in india.So the question of getting him to work as an expat again just does'nt arise.
I'm sure u see why i wrote this thread......
Thx anyways.....
The reason he wants to find work in india is a) He's originally from there and holds his original licence from India. b)Got all his relatives/friends/parents/property back in india.So the question of getting him to work as an expat again just does'nt arise.
I'm sure u see why i wrote this thread......
Thx anyways.....
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Far Side
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know what his overall license situation is overall, but yeah, I'd take care of the homie business first, if he can afford some time off and can go through the process relatively quickly. Hmmm, knowing the DGCA ... and you said he's in "dire straits". It's certainly best to have all your type ratings on at least one of your licenses, though.
Some management pilot type at Indigo, Kingfisher, et al. will almost certainly talk to him and let him know what's required. He might as well get an Indian medical, too. If the process is really time-consuming it may convince him to stay international. If by some miracle it's relatively painless, then it's a good situation for him and he can proceed. With luck one of the Indian carriers will snap him right up and put him through the process, which is what it sounds like he wants. International might seem to be best for most of us, but home is home. Believe me, I understand!
Yup! Bottom line - start calling Indian A320 operators. No disrespect intended, but if you've got to get a job in India it's kind of a no-brainer ... 
Some management pilot type at Indigo, Kingfisher, et al. will almost certainly talk to him and let him know what's required. He might as well get an Indian medical, too. If the process is really time-consuming it may convince him to stay international. If by some miracle it's relatively painless, then it's a good situation for him and he can proceed. With luck one of the Indian carriers will snap him right up and put him through the process, which is what it sounds like he wants. International might seem to be best for most of us, but home is home. Believe me, I understand!
Maybe a good idea to talk to an A 320 operator in India
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Somewhere between MSL and the Stratosphere
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thx rotor....
will advise accordingly.
Thx Google....
I'm quite sure his Instrument rating on his caas licence is current.He,obviously left WITH currency.Indian medical,well thats another story.
But that should'nt be an issue should it? I'm sure he needs indian medical for renewal.But since he's flown the 320 on caas licence would it hold good with Dgca india?
will advise accordingly.
Thx Google....
I'm quite sure his Instrument rating on his caas licence is current.He,obviously left WITH currency.Indian medical,well thats another story.
But that should'nt be an issue should it? I'm sure he needs indian medical for renewal.But since he's flown the 320 on caas licence would it hold good with Dgca india?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: DME6, Rad110
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He can fly in India on a FATA. Which will be valid till mid 2010 max.
And even if he begins the DGCA process today, it will take him 3-4 months least to obtain his FATA.
But when he does get the FATA, he can take is own sweet time to get his Indian license current and updated.
Like mentioned above, Indigo are desperate for A320 Captains/TRI/TRE.
Should give them a call and they will put in his paperwork with the DGCA.
And even if he begins the DGCA process today, it will take him 3-4 months least to obtain his FATA.
But when he does get the FATA, he can take is own sweet time to get his Indian license current and updated.
Like mentioned above, Indigo are desperate for A320 Captains/TRI/TRE.
Should give them a call and they will put in his paperwork with the DGCA.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Somewhere between MSL and the Stratosphere
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
spedfast,
I thought FATA was issued on the basis of a pilot having an airplane endorsment on his/her licence of origin.That is to say a pilot with an Faa endorsment for example would fly on a Fata in india.But in this case his Caas atp itself was issued originally on the basis of his indian atp to begin with.Quite a catch 22 situation!Now he would like to fly BACK in his country of origin being given due credit for airplane type and hours logged in singapore.
THAT my dear watson is the issue here.....
But i think maybe u have a point there...
I thought FATA was issued on the basis of a pilot having an airplane endorsment on his/her licence of origin.That is to say a pilot with an Faa endorsment for example would fly on a Fata in india.But in this case his Caas atp itself was issued originally on the basis of his indian atp to begin with.Quite a catch 22 situation!Now he would like to fly BACK in his country of origin being given due credit for airplane type and hours logged in singapore.
THAT my dear watson is the issue here.....
But i think maybe u have a point there...
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: DME6, Rad110
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its crazy with all the permutations that are possible.
But as long as his CAAS license is valid and up to date, I see no reason why he will not be issued with the FATA.
FATA is based on a valid ICAO fligh crew license, it will not matter how his CAAS license was obtained in the first place.
I know of an Indian FO who went overseas to convert his DGCA license to ICAO.
Cleared ICAO ATPL. Came back to India and got a FATA issued on the basis of that ATPL. He is now a captain and is attempting to clear the DGCA ATPL conversion exams.
But as long as his CAAS license is valid and up to date, I see no reason why he will not be issued with the FATA.
FATA is based on a valid ICAO fligh crew license, it will not matter how his CAAS license was obtained in the first place.
I know of an Indian FO who went overseas to convert his DGCA license to ICAO.
Cleared ICAO ATPL. Came back to India and got a FATA issued on the basis of that ATPL. He is now a captain and is attempting to clear the DGCA ATPL conversion exams.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Somewhere between MSL and the Stratosphere
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow.....
That's a new 'never heard before' story.Really smart, this F/O.
Wish we were so smart in the days of yore.....
.
Would love to get to know him.Am quite certain he'd have an answer to my buddy's issues......lolol.
Many thx for trying so hard spedfast.Shall await some more replies,before i break the bad news to him....
Cheers now
That's a new 'never heard before' story.Really smart, this F/O.
Wish we were so smart in the days of yore.....
.Would love to get to know him.Am quite certain he'd have an answer to my buddy's issues......lolol.
Many thx for trying so hard spedfast.Shall await some more replies,before i break the bad news to him....
Cheers now
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Big Blue Yonder
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He must have obtained the very difficult FAA ATP....I would find it hard to call him smart.But anyway yeah your buddy can fly on FATA in India till he gets his Indian paperwork out of the way.Hope he hasn't burned too many bridges while he was in India...And in the earlier days the Indian DGCA didnt allow you to do such stuff..but now due to the "Acute Shortage" they do..
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: DME6, Rad110
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I should add, as a FO, he was already flying with a captain who had examiner approval from that ICAO country.
So on passing the ATPs, he sat a checkride with him on the sim.
As you would surely agree, it does help to know the right people at the right time!
So on passing the ATPs, he sat a checkride with him on the sim.
As you would surely agree, it does help to know the right people at the right time!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ubiquity
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CIVIL AVIATION REQUIREMENTS
SECTION 7 FLIGHT CREW STANDARDS
SERIES ‘G’ PART I
ISSUE I, 27
SECTION 7 FLIGHT CREW STANDARDS
SERIES ‘G’ PART I
ISSUE I, 27
th JULY, 1999 Effective : Forthwith
SUBJECT:
REQUIREMENTS FOR ISSUE OF INDIAN LICENCES AND
AIRCRAFT RATINGS TO PILOTS HOLDING LICENCES
AND AIRCRAFT RATINGS ISSUED BY CONTRACTING
STATES.
AIRCRAFT RATINGS TO PILOTS HOLDING LICENCES
AND AIRCRAFT RATINGS ISSUED BY CONTRACTING
STATES.
1.
PURPOSE
Many requests are received for issue of Indian pilot’s licences on the basis of
licences issued by other Contracting States. Some applicants have faced
difficulties in obtaining Indian licences or aircraft ratings as they did not
comply fully with the Indian requirements while obtaining licences or ratings
abroad. In order to clarify the applicable requirements and to streamline the
procedure for issue of Indian licences and aircraft ratings, this Civil Aviation
Requirement is issued under the provision of Rules 41 &133A of the Aircraft
Rules, 1937.
This CAR supersedes AIC 13/1991 dated 25
licences issued by other Contracting States. Some applicants have faced
difficulties in obtaining Indian licences or aircraft ratings as they did not
comply fully with the Indian requirements while obtaining licences or ratings
abroad. In order to clarify the applicable requirements and to streamline the
procedure for issue of Indian licences and aircraft ratings, this Civil Aviation
Requirement is issued under the provision of Rules 41 &133A of the Aircraft
Rules, 1937.
This CAR supersedes AIC 13/1991 dated 25
th July, 1991.
2.
PROCEDURE FOR OBTAINING INDIAN PILOT’S LICENCES
AND RATINGS
AND RATINGS
An applicant desirous of obtaining Indian pilot’s licence or rating on the basis
of licence or rating issued by a Contracting State, should make an application
to DGCA (Attn. – Director, Training & Licensing) and submit all the necessary
documents as required under the applicable provisions of Schedule II of the
Aircraft Rules 1937 and this CAR along with the necessary fees in the form of
of licence or rating issued by a Contracting State, should make an application
to DGCA (Attn. – Director, Training & Licensing) and submit all the necessary
documents as required under the applicable provisions of Schedule II of the
Aircraft Rules 1937 and this CAR along with the necessary fees in the form of
CIVIL AVIATION REQUIREMENTS SECTION 7
SERIES ‘G’ PART I 27
SERIES ‘G’ PART I 27
TH JULY, 1999
Rev. 2, 10
th March 2007
2
a bank draft payable at any scheduled bank/I.P.O. in favour of the Accounts
Officer, Central Pay & Accounts Office, DGCA, New Delhi. The documents
submitted by the applicant should show that the applicant meets the
requirement for grant of the licence or rating and has acquired the desired
level of proficiency. Where applicable, the documents should be within the
laid down validity period. The syllabi prescribed by DGCA for passing oral
examination, written examination, flying training, skill tests etc. in accordance
with the provisions of Schedule-II of the Aircraft Rules 1937, shall be
applicable for passing examinations and tests stipulated in this CAR.
In addition to the above, the applicant shall also submit the Verification/
authentication in respect of foreign license/ certificate/ ratings issued by
contracting States while submitting the papers in DGCA. Only the verifications
issued by the State of issue will be accepted for the purpose of conversion/
issue of licences and ratings on the basis of foreign license/certificate/ratings.
No application for conversion / issue of license/ ratings on the basis of foreign
license/ certificate/ rating will be entertained without the appropriate
verification/ authentication from the respective contracting state.
I hope this helps.I believe your friend would need all his course papers alongwith a course completion certificate from wherever he got his rating.As far as medical he will have to do an initial medical again in Iam Bangalore or CME Delhi.He better send an application for this soon as sometimes it takes ages to get a date.For further details look here CIVIL AVIATION REQUIREMENTS
As per my knowledge DGCA is acting very difficult to issue new FATA's.It would be better if he can take the rating on his Indian license itself.Hope he gets back flying soon.Good luck
Officer, Central Pay & Accounts Office, DGCA, New Delhi. The documents
submitted by the applicant should show that the applicant meets the
requirement for grant of the licence or rating and has acquired the desired
level of proficiency. Where applicable, the documents should be within the
laid down validity period. The syllabi prescribed by DGCA for passing oral
examination, written examination, flying training, skill tests etc. in accordance
with the provisions of Schedule-II of the Aircraft Rules 1937, shall be
applicable for passing examinations and tests stipulated in this CAR.
In addition to the above, the applicant shall also submit the Verification/
authentication in respect of foreign license/ certificate/ ratings issued by
contracting States while submitting the papers in DGCA. Only the verifications
issued by the State of issue will be accepted for the purpose of conversion/
issue of licences and ratings on the basis of foreign license/certificate/ratings.
No application for conversion / issue of license/ ratings on the basis of foreign
license/ certificate/ rating will be entertained without the appropriate
verification/ authentication from the respective contracting state.
I hope this helps.I believe your friend would need all his course papers alongwith a course completion certificate from wherever he got his rating.As far as medical he will have to do an initial medical again in Iam Bangalore or CME Delhi.He better send an application for this soon as sometimes it takes ages to get a date.For further details look here CIVIL AVIATION REQUIREMENTS
As per my knowledge DGCA is acting very difficult to issue new FATA's.It would be better if he can take the rating on his Indian license itself.Hope he gets back flying soon.Good luck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Big Blue Yonder
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nope it isn't.I think I know who the person is but wouldn't want to speculate.If it is the same guy,then he has a reputation of burning bridges wherever he goes.Not surprised why Silk Air didn't want him any more.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hotels around the world, mainly Delhi
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
The best and the easiest way is to get a job with an airline in India and let them do the job for you. It is simple and straight forward and you get paid while you work for the airine and your licence is endorsed with new type all at the same time.
All the best.
The best and the easiest way is to get a job with an airline in India and let them do the job for you. It is simple and straight forward and you get paid while you work for the airine and your licence is endorsed with new type all at the same time.
All the best.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Here Today, Gone Tomorrow
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Basic question:
Is his Indian ATPL valid?
How long since it expired, if expired.
If 1 yr to 2 years, Air Regs need to be cleared again.
If more than 2 years all papers need to be cleared.
Medical not an issue. Ask for appointment to renew expired medical. A different procedure than regular renewal.
Then present all the documents or copies submitted to CAAS for type rating and ask for the rating to be transferred to ATPL.
Worst case, appear for A320 Tech, and apply for job to any airline viz indigo.
Better still...
Go Air Arabia.
Is his Indian ATPL valid?
How long since it expired, if expired.
If 1 yr to 2 years, Air Regs need to be cleared again.
If more than 2 years all papers need to be cleared.
Medical not an issue. Ask for appointment to renew expired medical. A different procedure than regular renewal.
Then present all the documents or copies submitted to CAAS for type rating and ask for the rating to be transferred to ATPL.
Worst case, appear for A320 Tech, and apply for job to any airline viz indigo.
Better still...
Go Air Arabia.