Near Misses In Third World Airspace.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Near Misses In Third World Airspace.
Examples abound but after a near miss of my own yesterday I got to wondering.........
Tracking Male-Bahrain in the Mumbai FIR when a Tupolev(?) appeared out of nowhere, not showing on TCAS. I'd elected to offset one mile right and I'm convinced he was one mile left of us coming from the opposite direction. Maximum vertical separation? About 200'.
My first time along that particular route so no idea if it's a 'normal' occurence. Any regulars or locals care to comment?
Tracking Male-Bahrain in the Mumbai FIR when a Tupolev(?) appeared out of nowhere, not showing on TCAS. I'd elected to offset one mile right and I'm convinced he was one mile left of us coming from the opposite direction. Maximum vertical separation? About 200'.
My first time along that particular route so no idea if it's a 'normal' occurence. Any regulars or locals care to comment?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UTC +8
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since IL76 and B742 midair near DEL, Indian airspace requires operative TCAS; and if TCAS has failed then crew is required to report to ATC and will be instructed to vacate RVSM airspace.
If you offset you must also advise ATC.
You don't say if you've heard other traffic on your assigned frequency on your airway.
You don't say if you called ATC about your "near miss," or if you had filed an ASR.
You don't say your altitude nor if your "near miss" was day or night.
As you must be aware that at higher altitudes the "1000" baro separation will have a "true" separation of less than that; and unless your traffic is within 2 miles or so it's difficult to visually judge altitude separation. More visually confusing if you or the other airplane is in a turn.
I've been traversing busy Indian airspace for many years and have not encountered any miss assigned altitude snafus.
If you offset you must also advise ATC.
You don't say if you've heard other traffic on your assigned frequency on your airway.
You don't say if you called ATC about your "near miss," or if you had filed an ASR.
You don't say your altitude nor if your "near miss" was day or night.
As you must be aware that at higher altitudes the "1000" baro separation will have a "true" separation of less than that; and unless your traffic is within 2 miles or so it's difficult to visually judge altitude separation. More visually confusing if you or the other airplane is in a turn.
I've been traversing busy Indian airspace for many years and have not encountered any miss assigned altitude snafus.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well no 1 on the list of airman ship considerations is lookout of course, i.e. mark one eye ball. Doesn't seem to be taught like it used to. "VFR on instruments" it is now I think. It just proves that TCAS cannot be relied upon totally.
Before RVSM came in, there were flights that used to go from West to East in the area you refer at about those latitudes and lower, that cruised at the "unused" FL's, transponder off, frequently at night so no lights and no contact with ATC. Part of the reason was the difficultly of obtaining overflight clearances through said airspace, for cargo declared. You would be surprised at the frequency of these flights that are government (especially Eastern block) sanctioned. Been happening in Africa for years and will continue. FL +/- 500 feet and the chances of hitting someone is quiet remote. That's the theory!
So keep up the lookout!
Before RVSM came in, there were flights that used to go from West to East in the area you refer at about those latitudes and lower, that cruised at the "unused" FL's, transponder off, frequently at night so no lights and no contact with ATC. Part of the reason was the difficultly of obtaining overflight clearances through said airspace, for cargo declared. You would be surprised at the frequency of these flights that are government (especially Eastern block) sanctioned. Been happening in Africa for years and will continue. FL +/- 500 feet and the chances of hitting someone is quiet remote. That's the theory!
So keep up the lookout!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks for the list Glueball but we'd complied and the opposite traffic didn't. Like wot I wrote, he was approximately one mile away. Close enough to see silhouettes of the crew in the cockpit. We and a stream of aircraft ahead and behind were all at the correct FL. No RT from him on HF or VHF (we were working Mumbai on HF), no transponder output from him and a sudden attack of deafness from Mumbai when we called them to enquire. Wonder why? Then again they were about as much use as tits on a fish both on our way out and back so why should I be surprised?
As for the MkI eyeball, how do you think I spotted him?
weido. Funny you should write that eastern bloc aircraft were sneaking around what with this being a Tupolev. My suspicions are firming up.
As for the MkI eyeball, how do you think I spotted him?
weido. Funny you should write that eastern bloc aircraft were sneaking around what with this being a Tupolev. My suspicions are firming up.
