Jet Airways turned me down?????
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Jet Airways turned me down?????
JET terms and cond
I was just told from contract company that I would not be getting a contract for the ATR position, that the DCGA would not give security clearance because I did not have 2000 hours of PiC. I was offered the job at the interview and the contract company was advised I passed. The t&c that was given at the sim session and interview states a min of 3000 hrs w/total of 500 hrs as pic OR a total 2000 hrs pic with 100 hrs in command on type. I have over 4000 hrs with 1300 hrs PIC on ATR. Can anybody clarify, I was looking forward to the flying in India. No jobs in the states.
I was just told from contract company that I would not be getting a contract for the ATR position, that the DCGA would not give security clearance because I did not have 2000 hours of PiC. I was offered the job at the interview and the contract company was advised I passed. The t&c that was given at the sim session and interview states a min of 3000 hrs w/total of 500 hrs as pic OR a total 2000 hrs pic with 100 hrs in command on type. I have over 4000 hrs with 1300 hrs PIC on ATR. Can anybody clarify, I was looking forward to the flying in India. No jobs in the states.
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Sorry to hear that fahlguy. The DGCA can be quite capricious, and the airlines can't do anything about it. It sounds like they just changed the rules on em' mid-stroke as is often the case. The DGCA is very responsive to the Indian pilots' demands and their unions' wishes. THEY determine need for pilots, and what experience levels those pilots need, and apparently, it just went up for ATR captains. Unfortunately this would rule out a job with other Indian carriers as well.
I spent a year with Jet, and when I left they were paying expat ATR captains the same as 777 widebody guys as they were in such short supply. Kind of made me wish I was an ATR driver.
Keep your eyes peeled, there are other jobs out there, Asia, Africa, etc.
I spent a year with Jet, and when I left they were paying expat ATR captains the same as 777 widebody guys as they were in such short supply. Kind of made me wish I was an ATR driver.
Keep your eyes peeled, there are other jobs out there, Asia, Africa, etc.
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The DGCA can be quite capricious
(For that matter, the overall need for expats here will drop as well, which is why I'm circling around with the low fuel light on, looking for a place to land - although my company is taking good care of me).
Keep your eyes peeled, there are other jobs out there, Asia, Africa, etc.
Then again, with a name like "FALL GUY", what do you expect?
Kind of made me wish I was an ATR driver
Last edited by Rotorhead1026; 29th Oct 2008 at 06:30. Reason: addenda
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Expats at Jetairways are being terminated. It is not fleet specific. The DGCA is not issuing FATA's for new joiners and will not be renewing them either. This means that all expats in India will be axed over time. It's due to political pressure and from the cadre of Indian pilots who have been for long complaining about the presence of the expat pilot. Most recently, was an article in Times of India where it was stated (incorrectly) that expats were making close to 10 laks a month and that expats were taking flying away from young Indian Co-pilots. How absurd? But it did the trick and Jet has fallen for it. The others won't be far behind. It does not make any difference if your airline has good folks etc and that your airline wants you. They can renew your contract-the DGCA will say NO.
So if you are an expat Capt in India, without trying to sound like John the Baptist (i.e the voice in the wilderness) this is the time to send out your CV and get a job elswhere. DO IT TODAY! It may take a few months to get a position. Explore all your options.
Best wishes to all.
So if you are an expat Capt in India, without trying to sound like John the Baptist (i.e the voice in the wilderness) this is the time to send out your CV and get a job elswhere. DO IT TODAY! It may take a few months to get a position. Explore all your options.
Best wishes to all.
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and from the cadre of Indian pilots who have been for long complaining about the presence of the expat pilot
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Interesting...
It would be very interesting, following the NGFellow "rationale", see what would happens to all Indians working in USA, EU, Asia etc should a recession turn them "surplus" and enough qualified nationals be available to fill all the places.
Globalization, it must be reminded, is a two way lane. Certainlly this is very unbalanced in favor of Indian workers, which may account some hundreds thousands working abroad for each expat working in India...
Just a thought.
Globalization, it must be reminded, is a two way lane. Certainlly this is very unbalanced in favor of Indian workers, which may account some hundreds thousands working abroad for each expat working in India...
Just a thought.
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I did hear from someone who was just hired by Jet. Sadly, this person along with a few others at Jet were called in the office to be told that their contracts were being terminated effective immediately. So there is some truth to NGfellows post. Spicejet has maintained the expat force thus far.
There is however a distinct difference. At Spicejet, expats are not paid while on leave (other than given a travel allowance). So the company can tell an expat to extend his leave (another word for being temporarily furloughed) and then call them back when needed assuming they want to come back. The expat force at Spicejet is quite small in comparison to Jet. I think we have around 70 expat Capts. On any given day usually 20-25 guys are on leave.
So the active (on payroll) expat force is around 45. The TOI article on the 26th is plagued with certain inaccuracies. For one it states that the expat pilots is taking flying away from young Indian pilots. The young Indian pilots are first-officers and occupy the right seat. The expat is a Capt and occupies the left seat. They don't affect each other in terms of hours flown. There was mention made of expat capts earning 10 lakhs while the Indians only earn 6 lakhs. Let me just say that in the 18 months I have been here I have never even come close to the amount given. Even on the months where I flew close to 120 hrs. It is true that the overall flying has dropped and we now fly around 60-65 hrs. The complaint about the expat making more now (15-20%) because of the strong dollar. Well, that is currently true, but what about when the expat was losing 15-20% when the dollar had dropped over the past 18 months? No one seemed too bothered then.
I think there will continue to be an opportunity for the expat Capt in India for a limited time and in limited quantities. As NG pointed out the airline might want you but the DGCA can squash that in an instant. It is quite probable that the DGCA will insist on all expats out by July 2010 regardless of the consequences to the airlines or they might put a maximum percentage value on the FATA's issued per airlines.
There is however a distinct difference. At Spicejet, expats are not paid while on leave (other than given a travel allowance). So the company can tell an expat to extend his leave (another word for being temporarily furloughed) and then call them back when needed assuming they want to come back. The expat force at Spicejet is quite small in comparison to Jet. I think we have around 70 expat Capts. On any given day usually 20-25 guys are on leave.
So the active (on payroll) expat force is around 45. The TOI article on the 26th is plagued with certain inaccuracies. For one it states that the expat pilots is taking flying away from young Indian pilots. The young Indian pilots are first-officers and occupy the right seat. The expat is a Capt and occupies the left seat. They don't affect each other in terms of hours flown. There was mention made of expat capts earning 10 lakhs while the Indians only earn 6 lakhs. Let me just say that in the 18 months I have been here I have never even come close to the amount given. Even on the months where I flew close to 120 hrs. It is true that the overall flying has dropped and we now fly around 60-65 hrs. The complaint about the expat making more now (15-20%) because of the strong dollar. Well, that is currently true, but what about when the expat was losing 15-20% when the dollar had dropped over the past 18 months? No one seemed too bothered then.
I think there will continue to be an opportunity for the expat Capt in India for a limited time and in limited quantities. As NG pointed out the airline might want you but the DGCA can squash that in an instant. It is quite probable that the DGCA will insist on all expats out by July 2010 regardless of the consequences to the airlines or they might put a maximum percentage value on the FATA's issued per airlines.
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I did hear from someone who was just hired by Jet. Sadly, this person along with a few others at Jet were called in the office to be told that their contracts were being terminated effective immediately
) but these fellows had just joined. Yes, they had signed a contract, but they weren't on line yet. Unfortunate, but a far cry from calling in an employee of long-standing and telling him he's history ...Before it's all over we might see that sort of thing. My point is we aren't QUITE there yet.
Last edited by Rotorhead1026; 30th Oct 2008 at 03:21. Reason: rephrase
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The individual(s) I mentioned were new hires at JetAirways who were not on line as yet. I have no knowledge of long standing employees who have had their FATA or contract terminated. As Rotorhead has stated we are not quite there yet.
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I couldn't agree with you more.It would be interesting to see the reaction in India once a similar move was made by the govts. of other countries.The Indian economy would crumble,that's for sure.
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Hmmm, sorry for that Fahlguy 
But there are ATR jobs in other nice parts of this planet don't be sad
It is going to be much more ¨fun¨ here in India next year. Is it true that KFA has to return some A320 due to unpaid leasing ?
Keep your hats in this strong wind, guys !
But there are ATR jobs in other nice parts of this planet don't be sad
It is going to be much more ¨fun¨ here in India next year. Is it true that KFA has to return some A320 due to unpaid leasing ?
Keep your hats in this strong wind, guys !
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Emm...just to be ready..What do you guys think that will happen to us (me)..an Expat F/O.
I´m still flying here in India, and my FATA will expire in January.
Because if the Captains are facing problems...
I must say that I do not fly for Jet, KFA, Spice...Guess who´s mine?
Regards!
I´m still flying here in India, and my FATA will expire in January.
Because if the Captains are facing problems...
I must say that I do not fly for Jet, KFA, Spice...Guess who´s mine?
Regards!
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What do you guys think that will happen to us (me)..an Expat F/O.
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Well guys--John the Baptist here again. The Indian Govt has just announced that they WILL NOT be giving any ATF price reduction to the airlines. That will essentially put the nail on the coffin. If the struggling airlines cannot get ATF relief, then they will not break even. Airfares will remain high and load factors will drop.
Why this stance? My friends, it's all politics and remnants of a socialist government. The Govt wants to keep a "war chest" and by not reducing prices they will be able to do just that. Furthermore, the AirIndia lobby will have prevailed in strongarming the government to reduce the competition.
AI was never happy about privatization to begin with. They want to continue the status quo of years of inefficient operation with a monopply.
Goldman Saks in India will be laying off over 200 employees very soon. Other corporates will follow suit. Some will continue to point the finger at the expensive expat pilot as a contributing cause of the losses at the airlines. John Q Public will believe what they read and see on the news.
I will say this again. You don't have to leave right away. Just be ready to exercise other options. If you apply elsewhere now, you have a chance to be employed in the next 90 days. Another airline in the UK just shut down.
So there will be another 100 odd qualified NG pilots out there. Early bird gets the worm lads!
Why this stance? My friends, it's all politics and remnants of a socialist government. The Govt wants to keep a "war chest" and by not reducing prices they will be able to do just that. Furthermore, the AirIndia lobby will have prevailed in strongarming the government to reduce the competition.
AI was never happy about privatization to begin with. They want to continue the status quo of years of inefficient operation with a monopply.
Goldman Saks in India will be laying off over 200 employees very soon. Other corporates will follow suit. Some will continue to point the finger at the expensive expat pilot as a contributing cause of the losses at the airlines. John Q Public will believe what they read and see on the news.
I will say this again. You don't have to leave right away. Just be ready to exercise other options. If you apply elsewhere now, you have a chance to be employed in the next 90 days. Another airline in the UK just shut down.
So there will be another 100 odd qualified NG pilots out there. Early bird gets the worm lads!
Last edited by NGFellow; 30th Oct 2008 at 14:18.
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Hi fahlguy,
Cebu Pacific in the Philippines is in dire (and I do mean dire) need of ATR72 captains. Just do a search on this forum for Sam Avila, the airline's equipment chief pilot. He posted something a while back about needing captains. Your hours are more than the minimum required so he just might have you. I know of an expat (American, not Filipino-American) who is now training for the left seat. The pay may not be the same as India (or the US for that matter), but if you live in the Philippines you should be very comfortable. And what the hey, the Philippines is a great place to live in.
Cebu Pacific in the Philippines is in dire (and I do mean dire) need of ATR72 captains. Just do a search on this forum for Sam Avila, the airline's equipment chief pilot. He posted something a while back about needing captains. Your hours are more than the minimum required so he just might have you. I know of an expat (American, not Filipino-American) who is now training for the left seat. The pay may not be the same as India (or the US for that matter), but if you live in the Philippines you should be very comfortable. And what the hey, the Philippines is a great place to live in.
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NG............
for some strange reason,I sense that you seem to hate the expat working in India............
.....
Wonder why make it so obvious.......
for some strange reason,I sense that you seem to hate the expat working in India............
.....Wonder why make it so obvious.......
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You have it wrong. I cannot possibly be one to hate the expat pilot in India, considering that I am an EXPAT and have been here almost 3 years! I am simply stating that this a a good time for many of us to explore other options. Perhaps you are not affected on the B777 as you are a TRE. I am truly happy for you and I wish you continued employment in India. As they say, the best time to look for a job is when you have one. Once unemployed the hours, days, months seem to drag, and somehow calls never get returned. With Jet laying off NG guys, Sterling shutting down, plus the US downturn there will be probably 200 plus NG guys looking for employment. Would you rather be in the front of the line or the back? It's all up to the individual to decide.
Last edited by NGFellow; 30th Oct 2008 at 16:12.