Air India Express Lifestyle?
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Air India Express Lifestyle?
I'm thinking of joining Air India Express as an ex-pat Capt on the 737NG so would appreciate any info on such things as Hours / Rest periods / Hotels / Days off per week / Reserve (Standby) etc etc.
Thanks guys.
Thrush
Thanks guys.
Thrush
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I have been reading that there are carriers in India reducing staff, including crewmembers. You may want to check to see if your carrier is affected.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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I went into the Air India offices and asked many of these questions. An expat Captain was able to answer most of them.
Schedule 6 weeks on 2 weeks off anytime in a 2 month period.
work 6 on 1 off
no standby days, every day is a work day
maximum flight time per week per DGCA rules is 30hrs in 7 days.
Captain complained that hotel in Kochin was a 2 hour ride to the airport, food was bad at hotel so 3 pilots flew while suffering "loose motion" , no reserves meant that flight would cancel if pilots called in sick.
I have heard that many of the flight are late at night. Scheduling will swap you between day and night flights.
I think they may still need pilots as the conditions are not very good compared to Jet airways or Spicejet.
Effective pay is low as you are responsible for all taxes.
Schedule 6 weeks on 2 weeks off anytime in a 2 month period.
work 6 on 1 off
no standby days, every day is a work day
maximum flight time per week per DGCA rules is 30hrs in 7 days.
Captain complained that hotel in Kochin was a 2 hour ride to the airport, food was bad at hotel so 3 pilots flew while suffering "loose motion" , no reserves meant that flight would cancel if pilots called in sick.
I have heard that many of the flight are late at night. Scheduling will swap you between day and night flights.
I think they may still need pilots as the conditions are not very good compared to Jet airways or Spicejet.
Effective pay is low as you are responsible for all taxes.
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This is an outfit with a very tight budget. Big players like Kingfisher and Jet have announced merger. Will be a good idea to hold on to your present job and ride the storm for a while.Lots of changes on the cards mate!
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I would not consider going to India right now. Too many knee jerk decisions being made which could affect you negatively. Consider the Far-East or the Middle-East instead. Skymark, ANA, Korean,LionAir, FlyDubai, Oman Air etc would be a much better choice. Some however (Dubai/Oman) are not commutable contracts. Also look into an outfit named ARAMCO in Saudi Arabia. Not sure if they are hiring anymore though.
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Thanks guys. I may put it on hold for a while....... Don't like the sound of 6 days on then only 1 Day Off!!! How does that work - all the crews must be absolutely exhausted if this is the norm. I certainly couldn't do it for 2 months!
Can anyone out in India throw any more light on this?
Thrush
Can anyone out in India throw any more light on this?
Thrush
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When there is a shortage of crews, airlines tend to have to maximize utilization. The rules here are 35/7, 120/month, 1000/year. Expats are flown hard because most take the rotating leave and never have to worry about the 1000/yr rule. If AI express or anyone else is short, you will most definitely fly 5-6 days a week. You can expect to fly the maximum number of hours in a week or month. We did that at Spicejet a year or so ago when there was a shortage. We don't have that problem anymore, and average 60 hrs/month.
When you are flying the max you will find yourself increasingly fatigued. You almost have to take your breaks just to recover. You will feel like a robot coming/going to work. Similar to the movie ground hog day, except a lot less amusing! We had a few F/O's at Spicejet who went to AI express on deputation (TDY). They were not too happy about the rostering and a few decided to come back because they were being rostered for illegal assignments (in their opinion).
When you are flying the max you will find yourself increasingly fatigued. You almost have to take your breaks just to recover. You will feel like a robot coming/going to work. Similar to the movie ground hog day, except a lot less amusing! We had a few F/O's at Spicejet who went to AI express on deputation (TDY). They were not too happy about the rostering and a few decided to come back because they were being rostered for illegal assignments (in their opinion).
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Air Inidia Express
Travel:
Business class: but is subject to Bookings and even though confirmed, can be denied boarding buy station.
Hotel:
Air India will only pay for Launder of one complete uniform per day.
Therefor the launder of all other clothing is your responsibility. this can be quite expensive. Air India has spies at the hotels you stay at, and will report to the operations any time they see any evidence of alcohol use. This in turn triggers the doctor to make a call when you come in for your flight to administer the Alcohol test.
So drink discreetly and get rid of the evidence discreetly and quickly.
Rostering:
Very erratic. Mostly 6 days per week. Sometimes can flow into the seventh day. Day. 's off are not scheduled but are placed between rest period. Therefore you actually fly 7 days per week with a revolving "24hr" window for a break Day off.
(e.g you will start your trip Calicut, Kochi, Dubai, Calicut. Late on the 6th day and arrive home on your 7th day, they consider this legal. because of your duty and flight time you will need 22 hrs off and but by the time you show up for your flight the next day will have just had you 24 hr day off) And similar for flight time, if you exceed your 30hrs while on the trip then you are considered legal to finish.!
Schedules:
There are no weekly or monthly schedules. Most of the scheduling is done the old fashion way, with a pencil an eraser and a large paper book. All Schedules are produced Daily usually in the evening time. There fore Alcohol use is discouraged.
You will be asked to do them favors. And after that be expected to do that same favor every time.
Taxes:
Your responsibility. And if you dont produce any proof of paying taxes your visa will not be renewed.
You must also register with the government within 2 weeks. If you don not register you will be arrested.
Sigmar:
A company based in Dublin Ireland, but registered in the Isle of Man.
The really are more like a "Pimp" once you are on the Property they cut you lose and they get Paid on the 25th of every month of the month before. But dont pay you till 40 days later. Any issues with Air India are your responsibility, You are totally on your own.
If you leave or give your month notice. they will hold your last paycheck.
Licenses:
You will be give a validation called a "FATA" for 1 year which is tied to your work permit. However you will have to go up to Delhi and do an oral examination with the DGCA officials there (who dont speak "proper English" them selves, but can deny you the validation based on their opinion of you Accent.
If approved you will be allowed to fly for 3 months within which time you have to do the Air Law exam.
Training:
You will be given a checkride in the sim when you arrive,(there is no training given) you will be given some one on one familarision with the Policy manual and ETOPS. but no testing.
So think carefully abut going to AIE. And be careful of any indian who swings there head from left to right. That is code for they are up to something.
Best of Luck
Business class: but is subject to Bookings and even though confirmed, can be denied boarding buy station.
Hotel:
Air India will only pay for Launder of one complete uniform per day.
Therefor the launder of all other clothing is your responsibility. this can be quite expensive. Air India has spies at the hotels you stay at, and will report to the operations any time they see any evidence of alcohol use. This in turn triggers the doctor to make a call when you come in for your flight to administer the Alcohol test.
So drink discreetly and get rid of the evidence discreetly and quickly.
Rostering:
Very erratic. Mostly 6 days per week. Sometimes can flow into the seventh day. Day. 's off are not scheduled but are placed between rest period. Therefore you actually fly 7 days per week with a revolving "24hr" window for a break Day off.
(e.g you will start your trip Calicut, Kochi, Dubai, Calicut. Late on the 6th day and arrive home on your 7th day, they consider this legal. because of your duty and flight time you will need 22 hrs off and but by the time you show up for your flight the next day will have just had you 24 hr day off) And similar for flight time, if you exceed your 30hrs while on the trip then you are considered legal to finish.!
Schedules:
There are no weekly or monthly schedules. Most of the scheduling is done the old fashion way, with a pencil an eraser and a large paper book. All Schedules are produced Daily usually in the evening time. There fore Alcohol use is discouraged.
You will be asked to do them favors. And after that be expected to do that same favor every time.
Taxes:
Your responsibility. And if you dont produce any proof of paying taxes your visa will not be renewed.
You must also register with the government within 2 weeks. If you don not register you will be arrested.
Sigmar:
A company based in Dublin Ireland, but registered in the Isle of Man.
The really are more like a "Pimp" once you are on the Property they cut you lose and they get Paid on the 25th of every month of the month before. But dont pay you till 40 days later. Any issues with Air India are your responsibility, You are totally on your own.
If you leave or give your month notice. they will hold your last paycheck.
Licenses:
You will be give a validation called a "FATA" for 1 year which is tied to your work permit. However you will have to go up to Delhi and do an oral examination with the DGCA officials there (who dont speak "proper English" them selves, but can deny you the validation based on their opinion of you Accent.
If approved you will be allowed to fly for 3 months within which time you have to do the Air Law exam.
Training:
You will be given a checkride in the sim when you arrive,(there is no training given) you will be given some one on one familarision with the Policy manual and ETOPS. but no testing.
So think carefully abut going to AIE. And be careful of any indian who swings there head from left to right. That is code for they are up to something.
Best of Luck
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fully agree with human cargo... Sigmar is a ****ty agency... simply they don't care about us and they try always to cheat or not saying the truth... DON'T GO in Air India ... is a ****ty company as well....
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What to expect working for AICL......
Latest Worlds Corruption Index (CPI), India scores 2.9.
The lowest score is held by Chad at 1.9.
On the Worlds Business Confidence Index, India scores 2.7.
The lowest score is held by Bangladesh with a 1.7.
NOTE: CPI Score relates to perceptions of the degree of corruption as seen by business people and country analysts and ranges between 10 (highly clean) and 0 (highly corrupt).
My experience working there supports these numbers!
The lowest score is held by Chad at 1.9.
On the Worlds Business Confidence Index, India scores 2.7.
The lowest score is held by Bangladesh with a 1.7.
NOTE: CPI Score relates to perceptions of the degree of corruption as seen by business people and country analysts and ranges between 10 (highly clean) and 0 (highly corrupt).
My experience working there supports these numbers!
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Three degrees south of Zero on the CPI index is where I would rate Air India AND Air India Express on the corruption scale.And believe me,I know what i'm talking about!!
The Captain's rostering is headed by a certain Mr R who would'nt move his pencil in your favour without a MINIMUM of a bottle of the best scotch in the Dxb duty free.And that's for every visit to the scheduling office!
And if his not so subtle demands are not met,then every time u ask for a flight towards the east u will inevitably end up westward ho,flying on new years,working on xmas,and flying back from a flight so as to catch ur confirmed flight back to home base within the hour(if u want to make it on the Jfk non stop that is).
Four of my closest buddies have just put in their papers with AIE due similar issues.
Think long,think hard.......and then some more!
The Captain's rostering is headed by a certain Mr R who would'nt move his pencil in your favour without a MINIMUM of a bottle of the best scotch in the Dxb duty free.And that's for every visit to the scheduling office!
And if his not so subtle demands are not met,then every time u ask for a flight towards the east u will inevitably end up westward ho,flying on new years,working on xmas,and flying back from a flight so as to catch ur confirmed flight back to home base within the hour(if u want to make it on the Jfk non stop that is).
Four of my closest buddies have just put in their papers with AIE due similar issues.
Think long,think hard.......and then some more!
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Originally Posted by HAWK21M
Only AIX has been profitable in the last qtr
Originally Posted by AIEXPATS
Latest Worlds Corruption Index (CPI), India scores 2.9
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@AIEXPATS
That would indeed be damning...if you bothered to get your figures right.
India got 3.4. The lowest is Somalia at 1. Chad is at 1.6 btw.
2008/cpi/surveys_indices/policy_research
Anyway, I'm not here to sing praises of the Indian system. What I'm saying is - live with it. You got employment in India because you couldn't land a job/were not offered better terms in your home country. If you're not happy(and you clearly are not), then quit ! If you find that the whole bureaucracy bogs you down, hand in your letter of resignation.
It really comes across in bad taste when you(and others like yourself) criticize one of the few countries that give you employment.
That would indeed be damning...if you bothered to get your figures right.
India got 3.4. The lowest is Somalia at 1. Chad is at 1.6 btw.
2008/cpi/surveys_indices/policy_research
Anyway, I'm not here to sing praises of the Indian system. What I'm saying is - live with it. You got employment in India because you couldn't land a job/were not offered better terms in your home country. If you're not happy(and you clearly are not), then quit ! If you find that the whole bureaucracy bogs you down, hand in your letter of resignation.
It really comes across in bad taste when you(and others like yourself) criticize one of the few countries that give you employment.
Last edited by Arcane; 20th Mar 2009 at 12:59.
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@ AIREXPATS
If working in India is so much of a hassle for you, Why the hell are you even working here ?
We could do well without intellectually challenged individuals like you......
If working in India is so much of a hassle for you, Why the hell are you even working here ?
We could do well without intellectually challenged individuals like you......
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much time
i am Pilot Kaptan from last air india course London. they have told us we needed soon by told Rishworth something else. now told in aug. other guys now look for a different thing. they waiting long time and other company like them. 29 for course, 15 arrive london. india make it to long no peoples wait.
moja rada to: nie bierz tej pracy.
moja rada to: nie bierz tej pracy.
