Article-Big Big Losses for Airlines in India
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'India is the last choice of expats for a long haul'-India-The Times of India
some learn from others mistake
some learn from the mistakes
some continue doing mistakes and contiue learning.
some learn from others mistake
some learn from the mistakes
some continue doing mistakes and contiue learning.
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Expats ??????????
Did not see anything about "Expat pilots" in that article. Surveys are not the final say on any issue, except for media hype. living as an expat in any country is usually by choice and sometimes career needs.
Most expats don't make lifelong commitments in other countries unless they are retired.
Most expats don't make lifelong commitments in other countries unless they are retired.
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forget about spdrotten
one dead fish can spoil the pond.....
or you all looking to start DNA tests/culture tests.
it will put extra burden on the airlines...
they are taking loads of loans to survive....interest on loan not acounted so far.....
even if fuel cost comes down its hard for airlines and very hard for pilots.not easy no good situation.
one dead fish can spoil the pond.....
or you all looking to start DNA tests/culture tests.
it will put extra burden on the airlines...
they are taking loads of loans to survive....interest on loan not acounted so far.....
even if fuel cost comes down its hard for airlines and very hard for pilots.not easy no good situation.
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flightnight
Expats ??????????
Did not see anything about "Expat pilots" in that article. Surveys are not the final say on any issue, except for media hype. living as an expat in any country is usually by choice and sometimes career needs.
Most expats don't make lifelong commitments in other countries unless they are retired.
you are right
this article is not about pilots
you are the first one to identify.
its abt expats who were in the tea coffee/starsburg/kfc bussiness and so on....
fact is ....tea stalls are selling more coke arround DGCA SINCE LAST 5 YEARS.
earnig more than .....a pilot
Expats ??????????
Did not see anything about "Expat pilots" in that article. Surveys are not the final say on any issue, except for media hype. living as an expat in any country is usually by choice and sometimes career needs.
Most expats don't make lifelong commitments in other countries unless they are retired.
you are right
this article is not about pilots
you are the first one to identify.
its abt expats who were in the tea coffee/starsburg/kfc bussiness and so on....
fact is ....tea stalls are selling more coke arround DGCA SINCE LAST 5 YEARS.
earnig more than .....a pilot
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spd trotten
India doesnt know how to handle aviation
100% agree with Holycow
and they never ever know how to handle
and I didn't understand why many expat comes to the INCREDIBLE INDIA last year
are they didn't knew "what goes UP must comes DOWN" (faster in India) 
............................................................ .................................
how to to handle aviation in india?
share your ideas....
welcomed
you know there are 1 billion people
and you said one a/c is ok.....
thx to some one like ... red5 wo has given some summery. about ur posts...
you must knw if there are one billion people
they will have 2 billion + legs.....
and.......
getsetgo
India doesnt know how to handle aviation
100% agree with Holycow
and they never ever know how to handleand I didn't understand why many expat comes to the INCREDIBLE INDIA last year
are they didn't knew "what goes UP must comes DOWN" (faster in India) ............................................................ .................................
how to to handle aviation in india?
share your ideas....
welcomed
you know there are 1 billion people
and you said one a/c is ok.....
thx to some one like ... red5 wo has given some summery. about ur posts...
you must knw if there are one billion people
they will have 2 billion + legs.....
and.......
getsetgo
Last edited by getsetgo; 10th Aug 2008 at 23:57. Reason: correction
Cool Mod
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OK guys, take a breather.
Some of you are being offensive, some bordering on the extreme. Please refrain and stop using language that offends or is abusive.
These forums are for debating not baiting.
It gets closed unless it stops.
I am sure we can rely on you.
PPP
Some of you are being offensive, some bordering on the extreme. Please refrain and stop using language that offends or is abusive.
These forums are for debating not baiting.
It gets closed unless it stops.
I am sure we can rely on you.
PPP
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Some of you didn't heed PPRuNe Pop's warning .. so all your hard work composing posts has gone to waste.
This thread is about airlines in India, and how they are coping or not coping in todays economic climate.
It's not about a country, and it's people, and how they live. Or for attacking other countries, races, or religions. There are other forums on the net where that is entertained and you can bitch and complain to your hearts content, but not here.
If you can't comment on the thread topic, then please don't bother. If you read this and still can't get it, we can provide you with your own personal thread ban which will ensure that you get a bit of assistance with overcoming your urges. 100% guaranteed to work
Just as a final point, those who accuse others of racism need to reflect on their own postings and comments. It seems it takes one to know one.
This thread is about airlines in India, and how they are coping or not coping in todays economic climate.
It's not about a country, and it's people, and how they live. Or for attacking other countries, races, or religions. There are other forums on the net where that is entertained and you can bitch and complain to your hearts content, but not here.
If you can't comment on the thread topic, then please don't bother. If you read this and still can't get it, we can provide you with your own personal thread ban which will ensure that you get a bit of assistance with overcoming your urges. 100% guaranteed to work
Just as a final point, those who accuse others of racism need to reflect on their own postings and comments. It seems it takes one to know one.
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1. high fuel cost, highest in india.
2. fuel waisted in holdings,highest in india
3. falling passengers loads ,loads are dropping. nothing going according to the industry plans/forecasts(5 years back)
4. debt/borrowings, and interest overhead
5.infrastruture woes
6.funding problems
7. unpaid dues to the handling agencies
8.accumulated losses over the years
9. pilots who went on leave told not to come till called
means a very polite bye bye and at the same time option to call them back,
hope they got all money due to them .
next one year or more no good signs for aviation,and india.
2. fuel waisted in holdings,highest in india
3. falling passengers loads ,loads are dropping. nothing going according to the industry plans/forecasts(5 years back)
4. debt/borrowings, and interest overhead
5.infrastruture woes
6.funding problems
7. unpaid dues to the handling agencies
8.accumulated losses over the years
9. pilots who went on leave told not to come till called
means a very polite bye bye and at the same time option to call them back,
hope they got all money due to them .
next one year or more no good signs for aviation,and india.
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I think the airlines in India hurt themselves. Overhyped everything. Mass marketing, ridiculous aircraft orders. then they were short staffed so they took on expat crews and paid them more than they probably wanted. Running the cadet program probably didnt help either and then of course high interest rates and cost of fuel, i mean come on what planet were they living on?
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free flights
with a/c diliveries cancelled/postphoned, dollor touching 44Rs
routes trimmed
fleet size frozen.
no passengers.
only free flying pax available...joy rides....bcz by now they are used to discounted tickets only...prefferably free
means jobs are
SJ sending pilots on leave(no money) means bye bye.....
licence gets fungus.
espacially for expat pilots even if industry recovers in due course still there won"t be jobs in india.
one year is enough to reorganise the industry which headed aimlessly thinking big time ahead.
routes trimmed
fleet size frozen.
no passengers.
only free flying pax available...joy rides....bcz by now they are used to discounted tickets only...prefferably free
means jobs are
SJ sending pilots on leave(no money) means bye bye.....
licence gets fungus.
espacially for expat pilots even if industry recovers in due course still there won"t be jobs in india.
one year is enough to reorganise the industry which headed aimlessly thinking big time ahead.
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vinayak
in airline bussiness when a/c takes off with empty seats its loss.
its perishable item so its called free tickets......empty seat or free seat or free ticket.
all make losses,airline, marketing dept,and so the pilots, when flight is cancelled bcz of uneconomical operation.
in airline bussiness when a/c takes off with empty seats its loss.
its perishable item so its called free tickets
......empty seat or free seat or free ticket.all make losses,airline, marketing dept,and so the pilots, when flight is cancelled bcz of uneconomical operation.
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GLORIFIED DONKEY
I think the airlines in India hurt themselves. Overhyped everything. Mass marketing, ridiculous aircraft orders. then they were short staffed so they took on expat crews and paid them more than they probably wanted. Running the cadet program probably didnt help either and then of course high interest rates and cost of fuel, i mean come on what planet were they living on?
Amazing hindsight on your part donkey. You must have graduated from the Harvard or Oxford business school. You're obviously not a pilot, maybe an expat hater, but you definitely live up to your name.
Now give us the benefit of your brilliance and tell us whats going to happen next, on this planet.
I think the airlines in India hurt themselves. Overhyped everything. Mass marketing, ridiculous aircraft orders. then they were short staffed so they took on expat crews and paid them more than they probably wanted. Running the cadet program probably didnt help either and then of course high interest rates and cost of fuel, i mean come on what planet were they living on?
Amazing hindsight on your part donkey. You must have graduated from the Harvard or Oxford business school. You're obviously not a pilot, maybe an expat hater, but you definitely live up to your name.
Now give us the benefit of your brilliance and tell us whats going to happen next, on this planet.
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most of airlines were trying to jump the bad wagon !..... in dreams of giving EK,BA, SQ a run for their money...domestic airlines had no clue since day one...IndiGO ordered 100 A320's....
........who would fly them, fix them or even sell seats...shortage is not just pilot or mech, huge shortage of airline managment....
and now there are some 1000+ local CPL holders with no jobs...the 1990's are back !
........who would fly them, fix them or even sell seats...shortage is not just pilot or mech, huge shortage of airline managment.... and now there are some 1000+ local CPL holders with no jobs...the 1990's are back !
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bussiness aviation
RDR glorified donkey is correct
when airlines ordered so many planes also correct.
that time a/c purchase was cheapest bcz of global aviation at all time low.
LLC airlines gave discounted tkts ,below the levels of sustainabilty bcz the were looking at 1 billoin people putting 1rs in the bussiness( 1billion Rs industry)
and small LLC were taken care of by biggies, paid big time to take over.
imagine if 1 billion people put one dollor in the aviation industry
that time $ was less than 40rs so it was cheaper to hire expats.
now if $ goes above 44rs you see the calculations .
and no new a/cs coming in near future.
give time to this industry to get things in order.
i think 2010 june is too far.
when airlines ordered so many planes also correct.
that time a/c purchase was cheapest bcz of global aviation at all time low.
LLC airlines gave discounted tkts ,below the levels of sustainabilty bcz the were looking at 1 billoin people putting 1rs in the bussiness( 1billion Rs industry)
and small LLC were taken care of by biggies, paid big time to take over.
imagine if 1 billion people put one dollor in the aviation industry
that time $ was less than 40rs so it was cheaper to hire expats.
now if $ goes above 44rs you see the calculations .
and no new a/cs coming in near future.
give time to this industry to get things in order.
i think 2010 june is too far.
Last edited by getsetgo; 28th Aug 2008 at 15:14. Reason: add
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The only point that donkey got right was that the high oil prices did not help. A bit of an understatement though. The high oil prices have forced the carriers to reinvent themselves and try to get rid of bureaucratic slumber, waste, lack of any planning and apply market forces to their operation.
Mass marketing, ridiculous aircraft orders
The current Indian middle class, numbers the ENTIRE population of Europe, OR the US. Count the number of domestic airlines/aircraft in these two continents. Of course there is a market in India, a big big big one. And don't forget the 9-10% annual growth.
International, why do tiny countries like Singapore,UAE, UK, US etc handle 75% of Indian passenger traffic? Now isn't this a great market for Jet, Kingfisher and possibly 2-3 more DISCIPLINED Indian carriers to mass market through huge aircraft orders?
What is left to be seen is if the Indian public support their own carriers instead of donating money to foreign ones in the long run.
short staffed so they took on expat crews and paid them more than they probably wanted
The aviation scenario is here to stay in India, inspite of downturns, closures, layoffs etc. The expats will be needed for many more years until the nation developes the necessary infrastructure, culture and discipline required. The difference in this industry is that there is no second best/haramse. Without them, there is no Jet, Fisher, Spice or any others. On the contrary, you will see many very good Indian widebody pilots leave if their expectations are not met.
Also, name me one person in the world who says he is paid too much. When you convert the expat salary to rupees, it does look a lot for India. But it is not for foreign countries where the cost of living is much much higher. The expats have also been hard hit by the falling dollar value which may question their intentions to sacrifice time away from their families for lesser returns.
Running the cadet program probably didnt help either and then of course high interest rates and cost of fuel
I think every airline should have a cadet programme. This will consolidate the necessary culture and discipline. I do believe that 5000 or so aspiring pilots are doing or finished their CPL. How many of them have the passion for aviation as opposed to those who entered the fray for other reasons?
How many have the political clout to get a job, or the means to reject a hire on the right seat of a BN-3/ATR, prefering a jet or nothing? A cadet programme is a must, to weed out the unsuitable candidates championed daily by the newspapers. The wrong people can cause havoc to a safety first industry.
Interest rates?? I'm no economist, but I have seen a downward slide over the past 3 years.
There will always be hiccups, but things will settle down in the right direction over time. How long?? Anyone care to take a guess??
Mass marketing, ridiculous aircraft orders
The current Indian middle class, numbers the ENTIRE population of Europe, OR the US. Count the number of domestic airlines/aircraft in these two continents. Of course there is a market in India, a big big big one. And don't forget the 9-10% annual growth.
International, why do tiny countries like Singapore,UAE, UK, US etc handle 75% of Indian passenger traffic? Now isn't this a great market for Jet, Kingfisher and possibly 2-3 more DISCIPLINED Indian carriers to mass market through huge aircraft orders?
What is left to be seen is if the Indian public support their own carriers instead of donating money to foreign ones in the long run.
short staffed so they took on expat crews and paid them more than they probably wanted
The aviation scenario is here to stay in India, inspite of downturns, closures, layoffs etc. The expats will be needed for many more years until the nation developes the necessary infrastructure, culture and discipline required. The difference in this industry is that there is no second best/haramse. Without them, there is no Jet, Fisher, Spice or any others. On the contrary, you will see many very good Indian widebody pilots leave if their expectations are not met.
Also, name me one person in the world who says he is paid too much. When you convert the expat salary to rupees, it does look a lot for India. But it is not for foreign countries where the cost of living is much much higher. The expats have also been hard hit by the falling dollar value which may question their intentions to sacrifice time away from their families for lesser returns.
Running the cadet program probably didnt help either and then of course high interest rates and cost of fuel
I think every airline should have a cadet programme. This will consolidate the necessary culture and discipline. I do believe that 5000 or so aspiring pilots are doing or finished their CPL. How many of them have the passion for aviation as opposed to those who entered the fray for other reasons?
How many have the political clout to get a job, or the means to reject a hire on the right seat of a BN-3/ATR, prefering a jet or nothing? A cadet programme is a must, to weed out the unsuitable candidates championed daily by the newspapers. The wrong people can cause havoc to a safety first industry.
Interest rates?? I'm no economist, but I have seen a downward slide over the past 3 years.
There will always be hiccups, but things will settle down in the right direction over time. How long?? Anyone care to take a guess??
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International, why do tiny countries like Singapore,UAE, UK, US etc handle 75% of Indian passenger traffic? Now isn't this a great market for Jet, Kingfisher
India is India, no comparison, This 5 years no international flights rule is not at any other place,to protect national carrier.
amazing country, discover india ,as advertised.
India is India, no comparison, This 5 years no international flights rule is not at any other place,to protect national carrier.
amazing country, discover india ,as advertised.
