Air Japan
2XL,
For what it's worth to you, I went for/missed out on my PARC AJX interview back in May.
Some interesting candidates applying from BAE146 (NJS), 737 (AN) to 777 (EK).
My jet flying ceased 10 yrs ago - probably explaining my failure.
I didn't think the package offered was unreasonable at all and at the end of the day, the choice is yours. I've worked for PARC before and they've always been fair and reasonble and in the contract world are highly regarded when compared to some.
Bear in mind, neither they, nor ANA wish to **** people off to the point that they're unhappy in their work. The cost of a 6 month ground school must be incentive enough for them to want to hang onto you for as long as possible.
I applied for an F/O position, due to the recency issue and during the interview -upgrades were heartily encouraged by the ANA interviewers - in the order of 3 years into the contract, as was contract extension past 5 years. This is obviously a way for ANA to improve bottom line, rather than paying high local salaries so they do have a vested interest in maintaining ex-pat staff morale, not just for the min. contract term.
This would obviously extend to the commuting/airfare issue.
In short, make up your own mind and look at the whole picture, not just from someone else's eyes.
Fourteen years ago I had the opportunity to take up a job with CX along with another good mate. He took the job and I was talked out of it. He's now a 74-400 skipper with a BN base and I'm not even close to it.
If you're in the least interested - go for it. Either way you look at it, it's serious money, a great aeroplane, a free endorsement and all with an Aussie base.
For what it's worth to you, I went for/missed out on my PARC AJX interview back in May.
Some interesting candidates applying from BAE146 (NJS), 737 (AN) to 777 (EK).
My jet flying ceased 10 yrs ago - probably explaining my failure.
I didn't think the package offered was unreasonable at all and at the end of the day, the choice is yours. I've worked for PARC before and they've always been fair and reasonble and in the contract world are highly regarded when compared to some.
Bear in mind, neither they, nor ANA wish to **** people off to the point that they're unhappy in their work. The cost of a 6 month ground school must be incentive enough for them to want to hang onto you for as long as possible.
I applied for an F/O position, due to the recency issue and during the interview -upgrades were heartily encouraged by the ANA interviewers - in the order of 3 years into the contract, as was contract extension past 5 years. This is obviously a way for ANA to improve bottom line, rather than paying high local salaries so they do have a vested interest in maintaining ex-pat staff morale, not just for the min. contract term.
This would obviously extend to the commuting/airfare issue.
In short, make up your own mind and look at the whole picture, not just from someone else's eyes.
Fourteen years ago I had the opportunity to take up a job with CX along with another good mate. He took the job and I was talked out of it. He's now a 74-400 skipper with a BN base and I'm not even close to it.
If you're in the least interested - go for it. Either way you look at it, it's serious money, a great aeroplane, a free endorsement and all with an Aussie base.
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In short, make up your own mind and look at the whole picture, not just from someone else's eyes.....Couldn't agreee more Ultra.
This thread has offered a good variety of comments. At the end of the day it is up to the individual to decide. Over all a good package, but with any package always room for improvement. For those who are single or currently looking for work go for it...if you can get past that damn medical.
This thread has offered a good variety of comments. At the end of the day it is up to the individual to decide. Over all a good package, but with any package always room for improvement. For those who are single or currently looking for work go for it...if you can get past that damn medical.
As these positions involve aircraft type training, has anyone asked about any “training bond”?? There is one (albeit a token bond) with the “Parc/Jex” contract, which most guys only found out about while reading their contract! Too late if you’ve just quit a good job!
Travel from Japan seems to be cheaper using local travel agents than normal staff ID. Fares to Oz return range from 75,000 yen to 120,000 yen depending on the time of year, and which travel agent. OK, these maybe economy tickets, but at least they are positive space during peak times – August, December and May. Look at these sites..
http://www.jp-tour.com/english-site/flihom.html
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/travel/e/index_e.htm
And just to check out Air Japan's home page for their schedules..
http://www.air-japan.co.jp/ http://www.kansai-airport.or.jp/index-e.html
The other question for HACS/PARC is: - what about a work visa for Japan?? As I imagine that immigration will begin to ask questions, after a couple of months as to your reasons for entering Japan continually, after your days off. If they find they find that you’ve been working from Japan, then the proverbial might hit the fan. However if Air Japan brings you in under some scheme where your name appears on the GD, surely then they would have to organise and pay for the ticket. Once you have a work visa, you must pay Japanese tax, which then avoids Oz tax (double tax agreement).
It sounds like an interesting job, which will improve when they get a few more destinations, but I’m going to sit tight for the moment until a few questions are answered.
Travel from Japan seems to be cheaper using local travel agents than normal staff ID. Fares to Oz return range from 75,000 yen to 120,000 yen depending on the time of year, and which travel agent. OK, these maybe economy tickets, but at least they are positive space during peak times – August, December and May. Look at these sites..
http://www.jp-tour.com/english-site/flihom.html
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/travel/e/index_e.htm
And just to check out Air Japan's home page for their schedules..
http://www.air-japan.co.jp/ http://www.kansai-airport.or.jp/index-e.html
The other question for HACS/PARC is: - what about a work visa for Japan?? As I imagine that immigration will begin to ask questions, after a couple of months as to your reasons for entering Japan continually, after your days off. If they find they find that you’ve been working from Japan, then the proverbial might hit the fan. However if Air Japan brings you in under some scheme where your name appears on the GD, surely then they would have to organise and pay for the ticket. Once you have a work visa, you must pay Japanese tax, which then avoids Oz tax (double tax agreement).
It sounds like an interesting job, which will improve when they get a few more destinations, but I’m going to sit tight for the moment until a few questions are answered.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Gents, if you feel that you are being unreasonable in asking for CONFIRMED First or Business Class travel for your days off - at NO COST TO YOU - consider how CHEAP you are, when compared to a Japanese captain:
Multiply the USD10,500 by 2 or 3, to arrive at his salary;
Consider that a Japanese captain gets ALL of his uniform (shirt, trousers, jackets, tie) dry cleaned/laundered for FREE, all year;
In Japan, Japanese crew are transported TO and FROM work by limousine taxi, regardless of the length of duty (ie. day return, or multi-day trip);
Japanese crew, and Japanese in general, get 3 days "Summer Vacation" every year, and a massive 42 days cumulative sick leave;
ALL Japanese captains - regardless of length of time on type - are automatically Training captains once following check out, and receive a handsome "training allowance".
These are just a few of the little known perks that YOU will NOT receive!
Now ask yourself, and PARC/HACS, "Considering how cheap I am, WHY won't you provide me, foc, with positive space, First/Business Class travel to allow me to spend my days off at home?"
As a further piece of "advice" for F/O's - if you don't have the promise of an upgrade IN WRITING, forget it - it ain't gunna happen!!, regardless of the insinuations/verbal assurances!
Multiply the USD10,500 by 2 or 3, to arrive at his salary;
Consider that a Japanese captain gets ALL of his uniform (shirt, trousers, jackets, tie) dry cleaned/laundered for FREE, all year;
In Japan, Japanese crew are transported TO and FROM work by limousine taxi, regardless of the length of duty (ie. day return, or multi-day trip);
Japanese crew, and Japanese in general, get 3 days "Summer Vacation" every year, and a massive 42 days cumulative sick leave;
ALL Japanese captains - regardless of length of time on type - are automatically Training captains once following check out, and receive a handsome "training allowance".
These are just a few of the little known perks that YOU will NOT receive!
Now ask yourself, and PARC/HACS, "Considering how cheap I am, WHY won't you provide me, foc, with positive space, First/Business Class travel to allow me to spend my days off at home?"
As a further piece of "advice" for F/O's - if you don't have the promise of an upgrade IN WRITING, forget it - it ain't gunna happen!!, regardless of the insinuations/verbal assurances!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Gents, if you feel that you are being unreasonable in asking for CONFIRMED First or Business Class travel for your days off - at NO COST TO YOU - consider how CHEAP you are, when compared to a Japanese captain:
Multiply the USD10,500 by 2 or 3, to arrive at his salary;
Consider that a Japanese captain gets ALL of his uniform (shirt, trousers, jackets, tie) dry cleaned/laundered for FREE, all year;
In Japan, Japanese crew are transported TO and FROM work by limousine taxi, regardless of the length of duty (ie. day return, or multi-day trip);
Japanese crew, and Japanese in general, get 3 days "Summer Vacation" every year, and a massive 42 days cumulative sick leave;
ALL Japanese captains - regardless of length of time on type - are automatically Training captains once following check out, and receive a handsome "training allowance".
These are just a few of the little known perks that YOU will NOT receive!
Now ask yourself, and PARC/HACS, "Considering how cheap I am, WHY won't you provide me, foc, with positive space, First/Business Class travel to allow me to spend my days off at home?"
As a further piece of "advice" for F/O's - if you don't have the promise of an upgrade IN WRITING, forget it - it ain't gunna happen!!, regardless of the insinuations/verbal assurances!
Multiply the USD10,500 by 2 or 3, to arrive at his salary;
Consider that a Japanese captain gets ALL of his uniform (shirt, trousers, jackets, tie) dry cleaned/laundered for FREE, all year;
In Japan, Japanese crew are transported TO and FROM work by limousine taxi, regardless of the length of duty (ie. day return, or multi-day trip);
Japanese crew, and Japanese in general, get 3 days "Summer Vacation" every year, and a massive 42 days cumulative sick leave;
ALL Japanese captains - regardless of length of time on type - are automatically Training captains once following check out, and receive a handsome "training allowance".
These are just a few of the little known perks that YOU will NOT receive!
Now ask yourself, and PARC/HACS, "Considering how cheap I am, WHY won't you provide me, foc, with positive space, First/Business Class travel to allow me to spend my days off at home?"
As a further piece of "advice" for F/O's - if you don't have the promise of an upgrade IN WRITING, forget it - it ain't gunna happen!!, regardless of the insinuations/verbal assurances!
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Interesting post Firewall, confirms all my suspicions and the rumours that I'd heard. I also have to agree with Kaptin M's summation of this contract. It's the beginning of a new drive to see how little we'll work for and also I think a symptom of there being several crewing agencies dealing with Air Japan and all cutting each other's throats to get the cheapest crew possible. Compared to Skymark this is a second rate contract and if they get the crew they want the next one will be even less. I might have considered it with decent travel arrangements, but I can see this being expensive and unworkable.
Kaptin M,
I just have to reply after your fairly one-eyed view of the big picture in the name, I presume, of maintaining some employment standard among the global ex-pat community. I guess in relation to this, my shoe is now firmly on your foot.
To all other readers: please forgive me for straying off track a little, but I promise, in conclusion - you may find the paradox amazing....
Approx. 18 months ago, I was beating my chest at how some of your friends, Kaptin, namely Whiskery et al, could leave their well heeled overseas positions, tax-free allowances, (obviously 1st class travel included, if I am to derive any indication from the above reply), and return to Australia, accepting well below industry conditions to fly for the unscrupulous, yet misguidedly, well-regarded owner of Impulse Airlines. I understand that the thought of accompanying them, crossed your mind once or twice as well. These same people have now excelled to monumental heights with a 10 year contract flying for QF, for no other reason but sheer good luck. In doing so, they overtook both their domestic and regional counterparts for positions to which they had absolutely no entitlement. Don't you think they caused a degredation to pre-existing conditions and worse, reduced promotional opportunity for those full-time employees within QF prior, in a similar fashion to what you are now saying any AJX prospect would do?
When I applied for the AJX postion, I applied as a regional QF Capt on $72K gross and operating ~820 stick hrs/annum. The reason for my application was to mostly counteract the predicament I then found myself in, namely dashed hopes for promotion to a larger type/better income/lifestyle, with my employer, as a direct result of your colleagues' equally "selfish" actions.
Please enlighten me as to how you believe the AJX contract is a poor comparison?
"Worth crawling over broken glass for", was the concept that flooded my mind.
I think you need to come out of the forest you've lived in for a while and look at what some of your exceptionally less fortunate cousins are currently struggling through on a daily basis, often with no choice in the matter....
Again, if anyone's in the least bit interested, show some fortitude and go for it.
I can't believe all the negatives about Visa's, travel and all that other crap some of you are coming out with. For goodness sake! WHO'S TAKING THE RISK, regarding your entry/exit rights into Japan? You or AJX/PARC !!
Do you honestly think they'd waste their time or money if they couldn't take care of the smallest detail of getting you to/from work! Honestly, some of you blokes wouldn't work in an iron lung.
Again, why would they spend time/money on poltical/industrial representations to get through an abundance of initial obstacles, then the 6 month ground school, the ever-difficult medical process, a free 767 endorsement, 5 year contract etc., just to **** you off, because you couldn't get to/from home for 8 days/month? If the "lousy" conditions are that "good" for ANA, don't you think they'd be doing everything in their power to hang onto you for as long as possible?
Do the maths and just think about it !
Please don't disservice yourselves by turning it into a pre-employment industrial stand-off, in the hope of contract betterment, as in the SQ scenario, this is far from the same thing.
Just ask "Fatty Falcons", what he'd be offering, had he won the contract!
It's worth travelling in economy to see family/Aus once a month, don't you think?
Just ask Kaptin M, he knows all about home-sickness I'm sure.
I just have to reply after your fairly one-eyed view of the big picture in the name, I presume, of maintaining some employment standard among the global ex-pat community. I guess in relation to this, my shoe is now firmly on your foot.
To all other readers: please forgive me for straying off track a little, but I promise, in conclusion - you may find the paradox amazing....
Approx. 18 months ago, I was beating my chest at how some of your friends, Kaptin, namely Whiskery et al, could leave their well heeled overseas positions, tax-free allowances, (obviously 1st class travel included, if I am to derive any indication from the above reply), and return to Australia, accepting well below industry conditions to fly for the unscrupulous, yet misguidedly, well-regarded owner of Impulse Airlines. I understand that the thought of accompanying them, crossed your mind once or twice as well. These same people have now excelled to monumental heights with a 10 year contract flying for QF, for no other reason but sheer good luck. In doing so, they overtook both their domestic and regional counterparts for positions to which they had absolutely no entitlement. Don't you think they caused a degredation to pre-existing conditions and worse, reduced promotional opportunity for those full-time employees within QF prior, in a similar fashion to what you are now saying any AJX prospect would do?
When I applied for the AJX postion, I applied as a regional QF Capt on $72K gross and operating ~820 stick hrs/annum. The reason for my application was to mostly counteract the predicament I then found myself in, namely dashed hopes for promotion to a larger type/better income/lifestyle, with my employer, as a direct result of your colleagues' equally "selfish" actions.
Please enlighten me as to how you believe the AJX contract is a poor comparison?
"Worth crawling over broken glass for", was the concept that flooded my mind.
I think you need to come out of the forest you've lived in for a while and look at what some of your exceptionally less fortunate cousins are currently struggling through on a daily basis, often with no choice in the matter....
Again, if anyone's in the least bit interested, show some fortitude and go for it.
I can't believe all the negatives about Visa's, travel and all that other crap some of you are coming out with. For goodness sake! WHO'S TAKING THE RISK, regarding your entry/exit rights into Japan? You or AJX/PARC !!
Do you honestly think they'd waste their time or money if they couldn't take care of the smallest detail of getting you to/from work! Honestly, some of you blokes wouldn't work in an iron lung.
Again, why would they spend time/money on poltical/industrial representations to get through an abundance of initial obstacles, then the 6 month ground school, the ever-difficult medical process, a free 767 endorsement, 5 year contract etc., just to **** you off, because you couldn't get to/from home for 8 days/month? If the "lousy" conditions are that "good" for ANA, don't you think they'd be doing everything in their power to hang onto you for as long as possible?
Do the maths and just think about it !
Please don't disservice yourselves by turning it into a pre-employment industrial stand-off, in the hope of contract betterment, as in the SQ scenario, this is far from the same thing.
Just ask "Fatty Falcons", what he'd be offering, had he won the contract!
It's worth travelling in economy to see family/Aus once a month, don't you think?
Just ask Kaptin M, he knows all about home-sickness I'm sure.
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We'll I am not Japanese so no need to compare, but wouldn't mind earning 7700/10500, even if I had to fly economy. Then again on that package c/w the travel allowance you could afford Business Class. Nah... put me in Economy I'll sleep all the way.
If one was to compare this package with others around the world it would be right up there.
One may not recieve the known perks, but compare this with say AirNZ. Join at 20 S/o for 8 years or so, Command when your about to retire on a command salary of what a F/O will recieve with Air Japan.
If one was to compare this package with others around the world it would be right up there.
One may not recieve the known perks, but compare this with say AirNZ. Join at 20 S/o for 8 years or so, Command when your about to retire on a command salary of what a F/O will recieve with Air Japan.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Ultra, I'll try to reply to your posting aith what I consider a reasoned response, and in GOOD FAITH - whether (or not) you accept it, is your decision. It is however, unforunate that you feel some bitterness towards Whiskery (who, btw, has never flown for Impulse)and me, from your quip:
As an aside to the Air Japan contract, the pilots and other employees who joined Impulse were totally UNAWARE, as were YOU, and all QANTAS and Impulse workers of the impending takeover.
Moving back to Air Japan. This is a NEW contract, and during ANY new contract there will be areas that need to be "ironed out" before the final draught is reached. I am suggesting that you compare APPLES WITH APPLES - that you, Ultra are earning only $72,000 as a regional captain in Australia, bears NO consideration when discussing a 767 pilot working for a Japanese airline out of Japan. Compare what other expats in Japan are earning and have a look at their accomodation and travel entitlements. Then, as I have indicated in my previous post, compare THEIR (by your "crawling over broken glass" analogy) "well-heeled" definition with that received by Japanese pilots, and try to realize that the FEW issues I have raised are of miniscule cost to ANA, when viewed in the overall picture!
To a pilot living and working in Sri Lanka, Nigeria, or Russia, YOUR meagre $72,000 salary would no doubt draw similar comment from him....apples with apples!
I'm reasonably certain there WON'T be any problems with work visas, however it is naivete in the extreme to ask "WHO'S TAKING THE RISK?" - be under NO misapprehension, the PILOT is the one who will carry the can if anything backfires or goes wrong, eg. wrt tax, exit/entry visas. You are only fooling yourself if you believe otherwise - ask the PARC employed Japan-based, JEX pilots what they have been told (by PARC) when the question of National Health Insurance responsibility was raised - in SPITE of what their contract states!
YES!! They care ONLY about their commission, once you are locked in!
They will go to "all that trouble", because of the monthly commission (scalping fee) that the contractor pays them - it will be a minimum of USD1,500 per pilot, per month, for doing NOTHING, once you are signed up and "in the system".
Unfortunately Ultra, you have been blinded by the USD10,500 for Captains and USD7,000 for F/O's, when compared with your USD3,180 (AUD6,000)! The point is, under the CURRENT contract, there is no GUARANTEE that you WILL be able to get home once a month to see your family, unless you are willing to buy a FULL FARE ticket, and even then there will be several months of the year that EY will be fully booked.
Japanese enjoy travelling - check out the Gold Coast and ask yourself HOW they got there.
They didn't drive or swim!
[ 28 August 2001: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]
Approx. 18 months ago, I was beating my chest at how some of your friends, Kaptin, namely Whiskery et al, could leave their well heeled overseas positions, tax-free allowances, (obviously 1st class travel included......These same people have now excelled to monumental heights with a 10 year contract flying for QF, for no other reason but sheer good luck. In doing so, they overtook both their domestic and regional counterparts for positions to which they had absolutely no entitlement. Don't you think they caused a degredation to pre-existing conditions and worse, reduced promotional opportunity for those full-time employees within QF prior, in a similar fashion to what you are now saying any AJX prospect would do?
When I applied for the AJX postion,........as a direct result of your colleagues' equally "selfish" actions.
When I applied for the AJX postion,........as a direct result of your colleagues' equally "selfish" actions.
Moving back to Air Japan. This is a NEW contract, and during ANY new contract there will be areas that need to be "ironed out" before the final draught is reached. I am suggesting that you compare APPLES WITH APPLES - that you, Ultra are earning only $72,000 as a regional captain in Australia, bears NO consideration when discussing a 767 pilot working for a Japanese airline out of Japan. Compare what other expats in Japan are earning and have a look at their accomodation and travel entitlements. Then, as I have indicated in my previous post, compare THEIR (by your "crawling over broken glass" analogy) "well-heeled" definition with that received by Japanese pilots, and try to realize that the FEW issues I have raised are of miniscule cost to ANA, when viewed in the overall picture!
I think you need to come out of the forest you've lived in for a while and look at what some of your exceptionally less fortunate cousins are currently struggling through on a daily basis, often with no choice in the matter....
I can't believe all the negatives about Visa's, travel and all that other crap some of you are coming out with. For goodness sake! WHO'S TAKING THE RISK, regarding your entry/exit rights into Japan? You or AJX/PARC !!
Do you honestly think they'd waste their time or money if they couldn't take care of the smallest detail of getting you to/from work!
Again, why would they spend time/money on poltical/industrial representations to get through an abundance of initial obstacles, then the 6 month ground school, the ever-difficult medical process, a free 767 endorsement, 5 year contract etc., just to **** you off, because you couldn't get to/from home for 8 days/month? If the "lousy" conditions are that "good" for ANA, don't you think they'd be doing everything in their power to hang onto you for as long as possible?
Do the maths and just think about it !
Please don't disservice yourselves by turning it into a pre-employment industrial stand-off, in the hope of contract betterment, as in the SQ scenario, this is far from the same thing........
It's worth travelling in economy to see family/Aus once a month, don't you think
Please don't disservice yourselves by turning it into a pre-employment industrial stand-off, in the hope of contract betterment, as in the SQ scenario, this is far from the same thing........
It's worth travelling in economy to see family/Aus once a month, don't you think
Japanese enjoy travelling - check out the Gold Coast and ask yourself HOW they got there.
They didn't drive or swim!
[ 28 August 2001: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]
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People, excellent dialogue which is the essence of PPRUNE. Our various opinions draw new points to the table.
Some people have mentioned Skymark, but what is their backing and future viability ? I would consider an ANA backed airline to be a better bet surely ?
I have spoken to numerous travel agents now re the travel arrangements. Business class flights from Sydney to Osaka/Tokyo return will be around AUD$4500 per trip. Economy will be around AUD$1500-1850 depending on the season. Now these were quoted as QF fares, but it was stressed that the flights can be quite full. Business class is generally full they told me.
I have asked this question earlier, but would appreciate further comments. What happens at the end of the 5 years ? Will Air Japan continue with expats or move to Japanese nationals who are far more expensive ? Has anyone asked the question about contract renewal yet ?
Finally to drag up another old post, what do you all consider the tax situation then ? Will everyone be liable for full Australian/NZ tax.
Email me at [email protected] if you would rather.
Some people have mentioned Skymark, but what is their backing and future viability ? I would consider an ANA backed airline to be a better bet surely ?
I have spoken to numerous travel agents now re the travel arrangements. Business class flights from Sydney to Osaka/Tokyo return will be around AUD$4500 per trip. Economy will be around AUD$1500-1850 depending on the season. Now these were quoted as QF fares, but it was stressed that the flights can be quite full. Business class is generally full they told me.
I have asked this question earlier, but would appreciate further comments. What happens at the end of the 5 years ? Will Air Japan continue with expats or move to Japanese nationals who are far more expensive ? Has anyone asked the question about contract renewal yet ?
Finally to drag up another old post, what do you all consider the tax situation then ? Will everyone be liable for full Australian/NZ tax.
Email me at [email protected] if you would rather.
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Ultra,
Once again I must agree with Kaptin M. I'm not sure you understand the way the crewing agencies work.Once they have you signed up, they sit there accumulating large amounts of cash for virtually nothing. There are now lots of crewing agencies popping up for the obvious reason that it's all easy money.
All they have to do to get the contracts and/or approval from the airline concerned is to offer them the best deal i.e. get pilots for cheapest rate which means in turn they offer pilots less to ensure their cut is intact. I believe this was the case recently with Vietnam Airlines, though others could tell you more about that.
By the time the bills are paid "en locale", a firm seat has been bought, taxes paid, there will not be as much left as you might think.
For many expat/offshore pilots it is not the perks or taxfree or pay that are concerns, but simply that due to age or other things ,there are no places in home countries for them. There is no choice but to remain offshore and that is why you will always see healthy discussion over forums such as this to advise each other of contracts, their pitfalls, or in this case, declining conditions offered by the crewing agencies.
Looking at this contract on its own from the point of view of an Australian resident,you may think it's very good. The people already in the offshore market are looking at this contract in comparison to other offshore contracts and we are seeing a decline in the conditions, especially in the area of time with families. The point has already been made that Air Japan will not want to see turnover of crews once they have selected who they want, but they may not be aware of the promises being made on their behalf by Parc,HAS etc about promotions and home travel. There will be no quicker way to ensure unhappy crew than to have them spending precious days off in a Tokyo hotel because no space was available to them to get home. That is why I think the crewing companies are telling Air Japan one thing, the applicants another, hoping it will all work out and they can sit in the middle for years to come on commission.
[ 29 August 2001: Message edited by: ditchy ]
Once again I must agree with Kaptin M. I'm not sure you understand the way the crewing agencies work.Once they have you signed up, they sit there accumulating large amounts of cash for virtually nothing. There are now lots of crewing agencies popping up for the obvious reason that it's all easy money.
All they have to do to get the contracts and/or approval from the airline concerned is to offer them the best deal i.e. get pilots for cheapest rate which means in turn they offer pilots less to ensure their cut is intact. I believe this was the case recently with Vietnam Airlines, though others could tell you more about that.
By the time the bills are paid "en locale", a firm seat has been bought, taxes paid, there will not be as much left as you might think.
For many expat/offshore pilots it is not the perks or taxfree or pay that are concerns, but simply that due to age or other things ,there are no places in home countries for them. There is no choice but to remain offshore and that is why you will always see healthy discussion over forums such as this to advise each other of contracts, their pitfalls, or in this case, declining conditions offered by the crewing agencies.
Looking at this contract on its own from the point of view of an Australian resident,you may think it's very good. The people already in the offshore market are looking at this contract in comparison to other offshore contracts and we are seeing a decline in the conditions, especially in the area of time with families. The point has already been made that Air Japan will not want to see turnover of crews once they have selected who they want, but they may not be aware of the promises being made on their behalf by Parc,HAS etc about promotions and home travel. There will be no quicker way to ensure unhappy crew than to have them spending precious days off in a Tokyo hotel because no space was available to them to get home. That is why I think the crewing companies are telling Air Japan one thing, the applicants another, hoping it will all work out and they can sit in the middle for years to come on commission.
[ 29 August 2001: Message edited by: ditchy ]
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Re promotion from FO to Cpt; I spoke to someone today who suggested that the expat contract pilots who are flying the 747's for ANA are being upgraded to command. They signed FO contract's with a verbal comment re upgrades, and they are happening. Perhaps someone who is on the 747's may wish to comment on this ?
Re the travel, if Air Japan promise via contract a minimum of 8 consecutive days off each month in Australia surely you can presume this to be the case. If the travel arrangements (ID50's etc) are not working surely the Company would want changes. Whilst you need to be very careful of the contracts , both you AND they have responsibiliy surely ? Air Japan may decide to start your roster with you flying Brisbane to Osaka, and end your roster with Tokyo to Sydney like Korean etc - now there is a thought.
[ 29 August 2001: Message edited by: 2XL ]
Re the travel, if Air Japan promise via contract a minimum of 8 consecutive days off each month in Australia surely you can presume this to be the case. If the travel arrangements (ID50's etc) are not working surely the Company would want changes. Whilst you need to be very careful of the contracts , both you AND they have responsibiliy surely ? Air Japan may decide to start your roster with you flying Brisbane to Osaka, and end your roster with Tokyo to Sydney like Korean etc - now there is a thought.
[ 29 August 2001: Message edited by: 2XL ]
Kaptin M, Ditchy,
Thank you for your reasoned responses and I will reply further.
Ditchy, to the contrary, I do understand the way crewing companies work and yes you are right, they're popping up everywhere.
As with many organisations however, only the shrewd will survive and I'd suggest PARC is among the premium in world players. They were similarly qualified in 1990 when I last worked for them and I'm led to believe that their standards haven't slipped too much recently from general industry feedback.
While contract companies have the option to take the money and run once you're entrapped by the piece of paper, they are still contract bound to be the service providers.
If degraded conditions led to a majority of disgruntled, disillusioned individuals, presenting for work every day, wouldn't you expect AJX, in this case, to make issue with PARC?. Ergo, it's in PARC's own interest to ensure some level of contract agreement continuity for their own long term interests.
Naive on my part? I think not.
The travel allowance offered was c. US 1100/month, ie. enough to buy an economy full-fare air ticket. I guess an apology's warranted if you'd hoped to capitalise further on some saving there. I suppose PARC did their sums perfectly.
I can't believe that a little careful planning wouldn't ensure seat availabilty on any one of a number of airlines servicing Aust.
Finally, Kaptin, I don't like to see others stray off the subject in these pages and would certainly not like to be accused of same. My reference to Impulse was to draw the parallel of outsiders infiltrating an established system to the detriment of the current incumbents, similar to what the "desperados" are now perceived as being guilty of in the AJX example. I see no difference here.
Their falling on their feet with QF, of course, had no relevance and I apologise for venting my spleen.
I beg to differ and am now thoroughly confused by your refutation of Whiskery's association.
From the number of interchanges I've had with him on the topic, he leaves no doubt of my claim.
2XL, Draw the 2 columns on your notepad and make your entries honestly with your head firmly screwed in place.
All the very best with your decision...Ultra.
I don't suppose I'll have the last word, but it's really all I have spare time for at the moment.
Best regards Kaptin, Ditchy...
Thank you for your reasoned responses and I will reply further.
Ditchy, to the contrary, I do understand the way crewing companies work and yes you are right, they're popping up everywhere.
As with many organisations however, only the shrewd will survive and I'd suggest PARC is among the premium in world players. They were similarly qualified in 1990 when I last worked for them and I'm led to believe that their standards haven't slipped too much recently from general industry feedback.
While contract companies have the option to take the money and run once you're entrapped by the piece of paper, they are still contract bound to be the service providers.
If degraded conditions led to a majority of disgruntled, disillusioned individuals, presenting for work every day, wouldn't you expect AJX, in this case, to make issue with PARC?. Ergo, it's in PARC's own interest to ensure some level of contract agreement continuity for their own long term interests.
Naive on my part? I think not.
The travel allowance offered was c. US 1100/month, ie. enough to buy an economy full-fare air ticket. I guess an apology's warranted if you'd hoped to capitalise further on some saving there. I suppose PARC did their sums perfectly.
I can't believe that a little careful planning wouldn't ensure seat availabilty on any one of a number of airlines servicing Aust.
Finally, Kaptin, I don't like to see others stray off the subject in these pages and would certainly not like to be accused of same. My reference to Impulse was to draw the parallel of outsiders infiltrating an established system to the detriment of the current incumbents, similar to what the "desperados" are now perceived as being guilty of in the AJX example. I see no difference here.
Their falling on their feet with QF, of course, had no relevance and I apologise for venting my spleen.
I beg to differ and am now thoroughly confused by your refutation of Whiskery's association.
From the number of interchanges I've had with him on the topic, he leaves no doubt of my claim.
2XL, Draw the 2 columns on your notepad and make your entries honestly with your head firmly screwed in place.
All the very best with your decision...Ultra.
I don't suppose I'll have the last word, but it's really all I have spare time for at the moment.
Best regards Kaptin, Ditchy...
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Could someone clarify the Ozzie tax situation please. Various accountants have different views so what do you think ;
If you spend 200+ days a year working out of Australia you would not be liable for Australian tax ?
What are the tax rates in Japan ?
If you spend 200+ days a year working out of Australia you would not be liable for Australian tax ?
What are the tax rates in Japan ?
EPIRB – I understand from one of the agents, that Air Japan has set a medical benchmark, 50% above the JCAB required standard – thus the high failure rate – didn’t know they were looking for Olympic athletes. I have heard the medical described as a 2-day ordeal, with probes being stuck in orifices, not known to have previously existed!!
As for the travel, it looks like buying a ticket is cheaper from an agent in Japan than in OZ, as the majority of tourists originate in Japan. It also looks like a discount ticket is better value, than a supposedly ID 50 “positive space”, as you get frequent flyer points as well!!
2XL, remember this is a contract, and what you sign is what you get! What is not stated/omitted in the contract, don’t even try and suggest that it should be there. Always keep a hard copy of what the agents promise, and compare it to the contract when you get it. If its not included – don’t sign it. If F/O upgrade is not listed in the contract, despite what promises are made by agents/airline, don’t expect an upgrade. If you sign the contract as an F/O, expect to be an F/O for 5 years, and be happy with that, and expect no more. If you get an upgrade later, you have had a big win!!
The fact that Parc & HACS keep advertising for this contract, suggests that deal is not good enough to attract the numbers that they need. And they agents will be trying to maximise their profits. As I understand, the Jex/Parc commuters are getting US$9K WITH TAX PAID, a tiny apartment provided, and positive business class travel each month, just for flying a light twin – 737!! So this Air Japan contract falls short in comparison, and they will have to lift the deal to get more drivers, in my opinion.
As for the travel, it looks like buying a ticket is cheaper from an agent in Japan than in OZ, as the majority of tourists originate in Japan. It also looks like a discount ticket is better value, than a supposedly ID 50 “positive space”, as you get frequent flyer points as well!!
2XL, remember this is a contract, and what you sign is what you get! What is not stated/omitted in the contract, don’t even try and suggest that it should be there. Always keep a hard copy of what the agents promise, and compare it to the contract when you get it. If its not included – don’t sign it. If F/O upgrade is not listed in the contract, despite what promises are made by agents/airline, don’t expect an upgrade. If you sign the contract as an F/O, expect to be an F/O for 5 years, and be happy with that, and expect no more. If you get an upgrade later, you have had a big win!!
The fact that Parc & HACS keep advertising for this contract, suggests that deal is not good enough to attract the numbers that they need. And they agents will be trying to maximise their profits. As I understand, the Jex/Parc commuters are getting US$9K WITH TAX PAID, a tiny apartment provided, and positive business class travel each month, just for flying a light twin – 737!! So this Air Japan contract falls short in comparison, and they will have to lift the deal to get more drivers, in my opinion.
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I think you will find that HACS and PARC are continuing to look for pilots for 2 reasons
1. There are three courses scheduled for early next year = 24 pilots and;
2. Look at the attrition rate with not only the medical at 50% or more,but the failure rate of the interview and sim evaluation. Also with HACS they have a screening interview as well.
The medical actually consists of visiting 8 specialists over 2 days to a standard of not less than that of a NASA Space shuttle astronaut.
2XL...I have heard that they are talking about upgrades even though not in black in white. Not to bad though if you compare with say an AirNZ S/O, in the high chair for 5-8 years before even getting to the wheel.
What you get is what you get in the contracting world. If you want to travel Business class to and from work then don't take this job. The decision is up to the individual. If you are looking for a quick command it may or may not happen, that is a chance you will have to take. Just try and get past that medical, things might be decided for you
[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: eyes wide shut ]
1. There are three courses scheduled for early next year = 24 pilots and;
2. Look at the attrition rate with not only the medical at 50% or more,but the failure rate of the interview and sim evaluation. Also with HACS they have a screening interview as well.
The medical actually consists of visiting 8 specialists over 2 days to a standard of not less than that of a NASA Space shuttle astronaut.
2XL...I have heard that they are talking about upgrades even though not in black in white. Not to bad though if you compare with say an AirNZ S/O, in the high chair for 5-8 years before even getting to the wheel.
What you get is what you get in the contracting world. If you want to travel Business class to and from work then don't take this job. The decision is up to the individual. If you are looking for a quick command it may or may not happen, that is a chance you will have to take. Just try and get past that medical, things might be decided for you
[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: eyes wide shut ]
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
The message coming through wrt the Air Japan contract,is that it ie WELL BELOW the present market standard, in terms of income - remember that the money quoted is BEFORE tax, and YOU are responsible for making the income tax payments to the government you atr LEGALLY REQUIRED to pay. Avoid/evade this at YOUR risk!
The travel is below the current market level currently given to ALL foreign pilots employed in Japan, be they Skymark, Air Do, JAL Express, etc.
These would be two of the major sticking points that make this a second rate contract. If you are REALLY interested in taking a slot (and can get through the medical), then FORCE PARC/HACS to improve the conditions to bring them up to the same level as the other pilots - unless you consider yourself a lesser pilot!
The travel is below the current market level currently given to ALL foreign pilots employed in Japan, be they Skymark, Air Do, JAL Express, etc.
These would be two of the major sticking points that make this a second rate contract. If you are REALLY interested in taking a slot (and can get through the medical), then FORCE PARC/HACS to improve the conditions to bring them up to the same level as the other pilots - unless you consider yourself a lesser pilot!