Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > South Asia and the Far East
Reload this Page >

The future of the Indonesian Aviation System – Arising from the Ashes?

South Asia and the Far East News and views on the fast growing and changing aviation scene on the planet.

The future of the Indonesian Aviation System – Arising from the Ashes?

Old 9th Apr 2008, 09:57
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Beach in the Tropics
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The future of the Indonesian Aviation System – Arising from the Ashes?

I would like to thank PK-KAR for his many postings and sharing insight about the current situation in Indonesia with the readers of this forum – terima kasih.

It is with a strong sense of disappointment that I have been watching the ongoing meltdown of the Indonesian aviation system. Politicians and local “experts” seem only to attend to the symptoms and fail to address the root cause for the ongoing challenges in the Indonesian aviation system.

De facto, all Indonesian airlines, airports and air navigation services providers have been forced in a “self-regulating mode” due to the inability of the Directorate General of Civil Aviation to meet its international obligations in terms of safety oversight and implementation of international standards and are therefore only in part to blame for the deficiencies in the system. The Department of Transportation's three categories of “safety ratings” (Cat I meets all DGCA safety requirements, Cat II indicates an intent to meet safety requirements and Cat III is given 3 months to address safety concens) for Indonesian airlines is an example of DGCA’s inability to take firm action - an airline either complies with the safety requirements of the DGCA or it does not!

At the Strategic Aviation Safety Summit in Bali in July 2007, the President of the Council of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) concluded that there was an urgent need to implement a concrete, realistic and achievable plan of action and the Indonesian government committed itself, inter alia, to improve the safety of its aviation safety system by implementing a safety programme in accordance with the new provisions of ICAO Annexes 6, 11 and 14. In addition, the government also committed to the implementation of safety management systems by airport operators, airlines and air navigation services providers.

Soon it will be a year since the Strategic Aviation Safety Summit and the expectations of the international community, set by the “positive” outcome of the Strategic Aviation Safety Summit, have so far failed to materialise and progress has been marginal when compared to what is still outstanding in the context of the “Bali Declaration”. It remains therefore to be seen if the Directorate General of Civil Aviation, by itself, is able to demonstrate that it takes safety matters serious or if the “plan of action” will end up somewhere on a shelf in Jakarta gathering dust.

In this forum there has been widespread criticism and bashing of the Indonesian aviation system. It is about time we start discussing an action plan of what is required to bring the Indonesian aviation system back on track. To start this thread, I have outlined below some suggestions that may contribute to a constructive discussion on the future of the Indonesian Aviation System;


1. Indonesia finally needs to demonstrate the political will, leadership and the ability to manage the challenges in its aviation system to the international community;

2. The President is to appoint a fully independent and “clean” Executive with the sole mission to urgently restructure the Indonesian Aviation System including the Directorate General of Civil Aviation. This Executive will report to the President directly and will have the power to act at her/his own discretion albeit with support and advice from ICAO experts and the Air Safety unit of the EU Directorate-General for Energy and Transport;

3. Indonesia has to implement a safety programme before the end of 2008;

4. Indonesia has to implement Safety Management Systems at all its airlines, service providers, certified airports and air navigation services providers as soon as practicable;

5. Indonesia has to develop a Strategic Plan for Civil Aviation comprised of the following components;
(a) Oversight of the aviation system;
(b) Safety policy, rulemaking, and agreements;
(c) Education, promotion, and evaluation;
(d) Qualification of aeronautical products, individuals, and organizations;
(e) Leadership and the ability to manage.


More could obviously be done, but that would be a good start for the future of aviation safety in Indonesia.
Elohssanaig is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2008, 14:10
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Elohssanaig

All very pretty words and sure to support an even larger political-government-industry infrastructure.

but without any measurements are truly as worthless as the payscales of many CEO's
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2008, 02:10
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Singapore
Age: 62
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Elohssanaig, I can't argue with any of your points and suggestions as action that clearly needs to be taken. I'm guessing that you have lived in Indonesia, if not actually Indonesian, so I am sure it will come as no surprise to you when I make the point that the whole of Indonesian society needs to change, before this will happen.

The airline industry is a direct consequence of the KKN that pervades the whole country, its legal framework, its banking system, its schooling and its business practices. Money talks and nothing else.

The Indonesian people have to say enough is enough: it *should* be the most successful economy in SE Asia, it has more natural resources than anyone else (oil, gas, coal, timber, minerals, uranium), Java is perhaps the most fertile strip of land on the planet, yet they have to import rice FFS!. It has 220+million people who are smart, attractive (OK OK my mrs is Indonesian ), the level of English is better than say Thailand, yet the place is a basket case. Why? Because for 60 years, the haves have been systematically raping the country's wealth, and no-one can stop them. SBY is trying, and I believe he is a good guy, but he is fighting against too many people with a vested interest in the status quo.
Rush2112 is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2008, 03:27
  #4 (permalink)  
ZFT
N4790P
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Asia
Age: 73
Posts: 2,265
Received 10 Likes on 4 Posts
Rush2112,

the haves have been systematically raping the country's wealth, and no-one can stop them
Unfortunately the same can be said for just about everywhere in S E Asia.
ZFT is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2008, 03:31
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: NSW,Australia
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Angel

A dramatic and fudamental "Cultural Change" would have to occur first.!!
I am not holding my breath.
capt.cynical is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2008, 06:54
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Singapore
Age: 62
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ZFT,

Rush2112,


Quote:
the haves have been systematically raping the country's wealth, and no-one can stop them
Unfortunately the same can be said for just about everywhere in S E Asia.

Very true. We lived for three years in Bangkok, very similar in many ways but at least things happen there - the skytrain, the underground, the new airport (ok, not the best example of the three LOL).

What Indonesia needs is another strong leader, like Soeharto.
Rush2112 is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2008, 17:49
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sinjon
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Where do the Garuda pilots train ? Any cadet pilots ?

What's the future there like as an LAE ?
Hermie is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2008, 18:46
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Jungle
Posts: 638
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Rush2112
What Indonesia needs is another strong leader, like Soeharto.
I thought he and Tommy were one of the ones who raped the country?

And what's Tommy's connection with Sempati Air again?
smiling monkey is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2008, 18:52
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Jungle
Posts: 638
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Elohssanaig
In this forum there has been widespread criticism and bashing of the Indonesian aviation system. It is about time we start discussing an action plan of what is required to bring the Indonesian aviation system back on track. To start this thread, I have outlined below some suggestions that may contribute to a constructive discussion on the future of the Indonesian Aviation System;
I think we all know what's required ... they key question is HOW?
smiling monkey is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2008, 04:05
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ...
Posts: 937
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
GA pilots "training" is dismal and extreamly poor...the overall safety culture has to come from the CEO;s of the airlines who need to approve training budgets...
Left Wing is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2008, 05:54
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Singapore
Age: 62
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
SM: there is little doubt that in general Indonesians were better off under Soeharto. Yes, he fostered the cronyism, yes, he creamed a fair whack off, but the economy was better, the Islamic fundies were stamped on and it was booming. His biggest error was not controlling his kids: once Mrs S died they were completely out of control. Tommy is a gangster, pure and simple. Rather like a certain Crown Prince in a country somewhere north of Indonesia (allegedly).
Rush2112 is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2008, 07:56
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Somewhere in the Tropics UTC+7 to 9
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
OK, this is a brief response (just about to head off for lunch).
1. It is happening. Current head of DGAC is doing his job, it's been a while since we had a proper director general. A lot of the airlines and members of DGAC don't like him and are stalling.

2. This started off with the TimNas EKKT/NETTSS(National Evaluation Team for Transportation Safety and Security) in 2006-2007. This put on record all deficiencies found. This then paved the way for the heads of the DGAC, DCAT (Directorate of Certification of Air Transport) and the NTSC. Having a totally independent DGAC in Indonesia would be nice and ideal, but the reality is that it'll end up as a lame duck and subject to obey the airlines. The current structure with people who are doing their job (finally) is trying to reform the whole system, working out legal framework to support their work and applying new rules for airlines.

3. Mission Impossible. The President has given June 2008 as a "deadline" in time for his visit to go to Europe, which will be cancelled if the DGAC fails to perform, and the names of those who are stalling the safety reform process will probably end up in jail *Yeehaa!* The NTSC and DGAC has been finalizing a new safety reporting system and various safety programs. The problem here is the legal framework and mindset, the major obstacle here is that those reports if found by the employer can be used as grounds for dismissal due to "negligent" (despite being ordered so by the company) and then put the guy under criminal law. Sure we need a safety program, but we don't want prosecutors and the police to become "vigilantes" and abuse it.

4. SMS has only now been assessed, and airlines are better prepared to apply SMS. The DGAC's concern seems to be with airports as the weak link in the chain. Behind the scenes, there are heaps of discussions and exchanges of information and documentation regarding SMS.

5. Already done, but once they started, they ran into a legal minefield so it's being reworked.

Despite that now, the desire to improve towards safety is greater than ever, forces outside and inside aviation are stalling the process by seeking vengeance through threats of penal legal action on violators etc.

The govt. of Australia and Japan are already working together with the DGAC, DCAT and NTSC into going around the legal minefield that is slowing everyone down, and providing training for them.

This is the challenge, because, as Rush2112 said, the whole society needs to change its mindset! For safety to improve, we need to depart from the "who's at fault for a mistake" mindset. The biggest problem at the moment is the parliament... the parliamentary transportation commission is OK, but everyone else isn't.

Money talks, but its days are numbered or changing. We can only change so much at a particular timeframe because the whole country is tarred with corruption. The recent arrest of the illegal logging mafia in west Kalimantan shows the size of each problem the country faces (suspects ranged from business people to members of the local govt to the police), and the government has to process the prosecution in Jakarta for fear of local politics interfering (as has happened in Northern Sumatra)). This, is just one case... it's gonna take a looong time.

One thing through, as long as we continue moving forward...

PK-KAR
PK-KAR is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2008, 14:50
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: tropicana
Age: 69
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
PK-KAR seems to have a great knowledge bout this archipelago's country.

The ban for Indonesian airlines to enter europe reminds us like in the 90's when Indonesian Aircraft Industries (IPTN)failed to get FAA certification, If not mistaken one of the FAA's personnel commented something like "As long as the IPTN does not respect the DGAC, the FAA will not give any certification..." . Don't you think the airlines in Indonesia right now (especially: GARUDA AND LION) do exactly the same thing as the IPTN personnel did 10 yrs ago, do not give enoughrespect the authority (DGAC)?.

heard that 90% of Garuda line ,instructors, or examiners pilots refuse to be checked by DGAC or at least give the DGAC staff hard time because of seniority/qualification issue etc.,(Is it true that DGAC inspector are not allowed to suspend a pilot license in Indonesia) so there is no adequate authority control over them. IN case of Lion air - money talk..enough said

I think between the authority and the airlines (start from the crew) in Indonesia must start to give mutual respect and to have positive thinking toward each others, no matter how bad the authority or the airlines current condition is, in order for the nation to start moving forward, as you guys stated:

"the whole society needs to change its mindset! For safety to improve, we need to depart from the "who's at fault for a mistake" mindset.
DC10LOVER is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2008, 14:56
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: tropicana
Age: 69
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
PK-KAR seems to have a great knowledge bout this archipelago's country.

The ban for Indonesian airlines to enter europe reminds us like in the 90's when Indonesian Aircraft Industries (IPTN)failed to get FAA certification, If not mistaken one of the FAA's personnel commented something like "As long as the IPTN does not respect the DGAC, the FAA will not give any certification..." . Don't you think the airlines in Indonesia right now (especially: GARUDA AND LION) do exactly the same thing as the IPTN personnel did 10 yrs ago, do not give enoughrespect the authority (DGAC)?.

heard that 90% of Garuda line ,instructors, or examiners pilots refuse to be checked by DGAC or at least give the DGAC staff hard time because of seniority/qualification issue etc.,(Is it true that DGAC inspector are not allowed to suspend a pilot license in Indonesia) so there is no adequate authority control over them. IN case of Lion air - money talk..enough said

I think between the authority and the airlines (start from the crew) in Indonesia must start to give mutual respect and to have positive thinking toward each others, no matter how bad the authority or the airlines current condition is, in order for the nation to start moving forward, as you guys stated:

"the whole society needs to change its mindset! For safety to improve, we need to depart from the "who's at fault for a mistake" mindset.
DC10LOVER is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2008, 10:19
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Beach in the Tropics
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs up

DC10LOVER

Affirmative, PK-KAR is well aware of what’s going on in the emerald archipelago and shares great insight with us.

PK-KAR
Trims again for your valuable input and for your status report.

1. We should all support the courageous efforts of Pak Suyitno.

3. Unfortunately and in view of progress made so far, I am afraid that, for the time being, SBY will have to postpone his trip to Europe.

4. SMS; your observations about the airports being the weak links in the chain are 100% correct and I would add the air navigation services providers to the same category. So far, I have seen no evidence that any of the Indonesian airlines or service providers have effectively implemented an SMS.

For your info, 11 months ago, I kicked-off a voluntary aviation safety pilot project (at no costs to the users and/or the airport operator) at one of the airports in the North-East of the emerald archipelago. This pilot project includes implementation of a fully integrated SMS (as the first airport in Indonesia) and is fully supported by the airport users as well as the TNI AU. I was however, unable to obtain commitment and support from the local airport operator. The general manager stated that there was no requirement for such a “western system” at the airport (whereas I am only implementing an ICAO standard). Although I have not given up my project, I am currently obliged to postpone my efforts until the airport general manager retires or gets replaced.
Elohssanaig is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 13:19
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Somewhere in the Tropics UTC+7 to 9
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
3. Unfortunately and in view of progress made so far, I am afraid that, for the time being, SBY will have to postpone his trip to Europe.
I called someone in GA the other day, and told him if SBY wants to go to Europe tomorrow, he should use the 738s wet leased from Europe.

From your story, the airport must be Balikpapan or Manado... but then, I could be off by a long shot.

So far, I have seen no evidence that any of the Indonesian airlines or service providers have effectively implemented an SMS
Gonna have a look at one charter operator's SMS docs later this month...
I hear Mandala's looking into it, but haven't heard how they're progressing on that front.

For me, I still have to look at the SMS requirements, as several potential startups are interested in applying a full safety system from the start (because we think it's impossible to apply it later in Indonesia... bad habits really die hard).

PK-KAR
PK-KAR is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 16:30
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The 'Bat Cave' @ HLP in the Big Durian Indo
Age: 61
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think things are slowly changing for the better but people have always got their hands out for the simplest task in any aspect of business whether its buying or selling parts , getting a permit , and not just because I'm a 'bule' my Indonesian buddies have the same problem.

Every small step takes a tremendous amount of effort and negotiation. What takes days overseas takes weeks or months here.

Another problem is the amount of parts theft going on , I get offered stuff every week and I won't buy it no matter how tempting . It's a bit suspicious when a guy on a motorbike rolls up with a brand new part worth $30,000 and says it's his but he hasn't got any paperwork or log card.


"Why make things easy when you can make it hard" seems to be the motto

Here's some examples I've things that I have personally experienced :

1. When you buy an engine or other component it still costs another $100 to get the logbooks and log cards , otherwise its 'tidak tau logbook dimana' (I dont know where the logbook is) even though I personally read the logbook and it could be found the day before. Sorry guys , maybe it's funny for the staff and its a big joke but when its said in front of a buyer it makes you look unprofessional.

2. I've had a captians seat 'kidnapped' from one jet aircraft I sold and that cost me $50 to get it back , not big money but embarassing when I have to tell a buyer we can't find the seat for his aircraft , nobody in the hangar saw anything as usual , I paid some money and 2 days later the seat was back in the aircraft .

3. Being quoted $500 by the sellers engineering dept to borrow the company owned flexi borescope for ONE HOUR so a buyer's engineer could inspect an engine (the overseas engineer refused to pay $500 to hire a $4,000 borescope and it made a bad impression , I ended up buying my own borescope so this doesn't happen in the future)

4. In another instance I purchased a bunch of avionics from an aircraft that was being broken up , the INU , HF and radar transceiver went missing from the time I paid for it until the time I went to remove it the next day

I told the guys on site that they had 2 choices , I would pay $500 for someone to find out who took it and file a police report or give them $500 to get those items back . They took option 2 and 3 days later the missing items were returned.

That's just the reality of doing business here but these examples are just a fraction of what happens every day which adds to the inefficiency and gives the aviation industry here a bad reputation

The point of my post is that 'business sabotage' , corruption and extreme self interest where departments within the same company dont communicate due to ego , internal politics or 'who got the money' is endemic in the industry from the bottom to the top

The end result is expensive spare parts cost between 50% and 300% more here than what they should further adding to the cost of safe aviation

When someone wants to sell an aircraft it's value is 30% to 50% less than if it was operated in a country where games don't get played on foreigners wishing to purchase an aircraft , which again adds to the cost of doing business (expensive aircraft in , cheap aircraft out).

Why is the aircraft cheap when selling out of Indonesia ? Because log cards are not up to date or lost , component substitution or parts removed from aircraft while they are parked waiting for sale. Airport 'preman' threatening buyers that if he doesn't get paid the aircraft wont be allowed to move or they cant gaurantee that security will be maintained on that aircraft etc.

This country has so many opportunities for aviation and there are overseas investors looking for opportunities but after a few bad experiences on their fact finding trips they walk away with the impression that it is all too hard

Last edited by aseanaero; 16th Apr 2008 at 04:31.
aseanaero is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2008, 17:10
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs up

Don't worry dear bro Indon neighbours.. there are openings all over and HKA/HKE have accepted your bro's from various Indon outfits with simple and easy interview process
Capt Vertigo is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2008, 16:46
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Far Away
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Question Interview

there are openings all over and HKA/HKE have accepted your bro's from various Indon outfits with simple and easy interview process
Do they even have one in the first place ........mate??????
NotHere is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2008, 19:27
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Somewhere in the Tropics UTC+7 to 9
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Aseanaero,
Halim and Cabe is rife with what you say! Let's say, it's up to a ridiculous level.

The big problem here is that a lot of Part 135 and 91 operators don't even know that things are being nicked from them left right and center. Lack of parts records and control is also blamed on the owners, leaving the parts preman to do his misdeeds.

We've heard stories of some cases where it was cheaper to limp the plane up to Singapore, fix it there, and fly it back rather than try to repair it in Halim/Cabe. Nuts!

LOL, the $500 boroscope hire... that reminds me of me trying to hire a GPU to test run some DC equipment on the aircraft. $100 an hour to borrow the air force's GPU, but that's not always available, or I can borrow from one of the operators for $300 that's always available. A quick look at that GPU and we decided to make our own GPU. A truck battery, the right sockets, a 200m electrical extension, and it did the job, and it was as good as the air force GPU (the engineer marvelled at our little invention and said it was more stable than that GPU someone tried to rip us off on)... and it costs... <$100 ! LOL.

Another one was sheltering the aircraft from lightning. With precious electronics, if rainstorms were predicted, someone said we should put it in someone's hanggar... $200 a night. Borrowing space at the air force's hanggar costs a fraction of that per night, but we can only put it there between 4pm and 6am. Well, a nice long copper wire and a grounding hook did it's job. One morning we found the CB popped on the wire, but the aircraft's system was all fine. Cost? $20!

A lot of "guys" in Halim hated us for our cost saving methods (a former foreign CAA inspector helped us in designing the tools for free)...

But then, the crew and operator is vulnerable to "commercial pressures". Once we were doing test flights for our equipment, the flying school realized they can get a ride for their students due for ME/IR checks for free. The instructor asked the crew, luckily he said OK if I was OK. There was the instructor trying to smartass his way around, I told him to bring the students the next day and I'd interview them one by one. Of 6, 4 were his "best students" and 2 was "not recommended". I found out from the students that the instructor had charged them money for the opportunity for the free ride. The 4 "best students" were actually dismal (I am not a licensed pilot but heck I can shoot and describe an NDB approach better than them), and the 2 "not recommended" guys were actually outstanding... and they were "not recommended" because they only paid the instructor what was asked, while the other four doubled what was asked. So, I approved those 2 guys.

The next day the instructor was waiting for me at the apron in anger, asking why I approved the two "not recommended" guys. A few questions about instrument procedures on the instructor and he went back to his place with his tail between his legs. The next day he found out I was not a licensed pilot and thought he could outsmart me again, he failed, and I explained that the equipment I had on board was worth more than the aircraft, and his flying school's fleet put together, and that I'd approve the other 4 if the school's directors would sign an agreement that if my airplane was lost or the equipment damaged that they would pay for repairs and replacement. He agreed, but after describing the details of the equipment, he finally backed down in fear of a disaster.

And that instructor, last year, tried to extort a couple of hundred bucks from his students from Indo Papua to go for medical checks. *shakes head*

Again, airports are often the weak link in the chain. Upon landing at an airport, we were immediately asked to submit copies of our CoA, permits, and flight approvals. It took 3 hours explaining that flight approvals for our ops was not required on a case-by-case basis and that the general approval is enough. We had to pull out copies of the DGAC's policies until the airport OK-ed it. *shakes head*... we then met with the airport chief (former air force guy and very familiar with our type of ops), and he said "What? Who asked you that?"

Theft in 121 operators were bad a few years back. I had a friend walking into his 732 wondering why there was a crowd of engineers in the cockpit. Someone nicked the F/O's HSI in the middle of the night... another case, a GPS unit went missing. At one stage, engineers had to chain lock their air stairs to the light post to prevent someone using it to nick stuff from the flight deck. Luckily, those days are long gone from CGK (unless...).

Well, at least we know why GMF has it's own fence and gate in CGK despite being airside.

Don't worry dear bro Indon neighbours.. there are openings all over and HKA/HKE have accepted your bro's from various Indon outfits with simple and easy interview process
A couple of them are already there... eh... interview process? *grin* Was it an interview?

PK-KAR
PK-KAR is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.