OMNI aviation philippines
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I went to the ATO a couple of days ago to inquire about the SPL. when we were talking to one of the staff there, he recommended Airworks aviation. he said it was a school that had FAA standards. anyone here know about Airworks?
also, he said that theres a problem with omni. he said that the flight instructors there were fresh graduates who were building up time. would this be bad for training?
also, he said that theres a problem with omni. he said that the flight instructors there were fresh graduates who were building up time. would this be bad for training?
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Airworks in owned by Capt Halili. He handles the ground schooling and flight training by himself and Capt. xavier. So far i find Airworks the best pilot school in Manila. Quite pricey but worth it.
With the vacuum hiring happening in the airlines, yes omni has newbie Instructors, so as most flying schools (except airworks ofcourse). The real question is are they really capable of teaching?
With the vacuum hiring happening in the airlines, yes omni has newbie Instructors, so as most flying schools (except airworks ofcourse). The real question is are they really capable of teaching?
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^we went to airworks aviation, they had just 1 trainer plane. i forgot the model but it wasnt a cesna. they also had very few students. im suspicious as to why they have just a few students even though they have good reputation. the price is about as much as PAL av so its still quite reasonable. im just not so sure why they have so few students.
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You can read more info about Capt. Halili here:
http://www.philskies.net/forum/viewt...0&hilit=halili
http://www.philskies.net/forum/viewt...0&hilit=halili
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Few students cuz the standard is high...remember attitude + skills + knowledge = great pilot!Probably pricy too but good things come with a price dba? Had the opportunity to meet Capt. Halili once in Mactan-Cebu last year. Great & humble guy.
As for OMNI, well I have yet to go there. But met yet another of their cadets here in Dumaguete once on their super long x-country in 2007.
Had the opportunity to meet Capt. Halili once in Mactan-Cebu last year. Great & humble guy. As for OMNI, well I have yet to go there. But met yet another of their cadets here in Dumaguete once on their super long x-country in 2007.
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omni aviation
i might start my ppl phase with omni this sept. do you also know where are some of its recent graduates at right now? flying as FI? flying for airlines? thanks.
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to quote from another pilot:
"Instructors everywhere don't earn much. They are just building time, and many instructors are not teachers, don't even speak well in public, can't explain anything other than what they (can barely) read in user manuals, and often pass on all their bad habits and aviation myths onto their students.
But there are some really good instructors, who really know aerodynamics, truly understand why p-factor happens or what the difference is between an over-the-top spin entry and a Christmas tree. They read about airplanes and procedures all the time, they know their CARs well, and they respect their craft. THERE ARE A FEW OF THEM AT OMNI."
"Instructors everywhere don't earn much. They are just building time, and many instructors are not teachers, don't even speak well in public, can't explain anything other than what they (can barely) read in user manuals, and often pass on all their bad habits and aviation myths onto their students.
But there are some really good instructors, who really know aerodynamics, truly understand why p-factor happens or what the difference is between an over-the-top spin entry and a Christmas tree. They read about airplanes and procedures all the time, they know their CARs well, and they respect their craft. THERE ARE A FEW OF THEM AT OMNI."
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for onedelacrz
the problem is that the omni of today is different from the omni of yesterday. they have very poor groundies because of the young inexperienced instructors. Moreover, they have become a factory producing commercial licenses in exchange for passing their training plan. And money of course. Hehe
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A New Home Flying in Crosswinds
the FBO referred here is omni. just thinking, if they treat this guy like that, what more to students?
Two words. STAY AWAY
the FBO referred here is omni. just thinking, if they treat this guy like that, what more to students?
Two words. STAY AWAY
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Amazing how many urban myths and rumors there are in aviation.
Airworks is not a simple flying school. They specialize in instrument training, multi-engine rating, rotary wing (Meynard trains Philippine Navy helicopter pilots) and aerobatic training.
They don't do primary training. (Primary training is the initial training a student pilot goes through.) They simply don't do that. They are a graduate school of flying.
They have a Bellanca Super Decathlon for aerobatics and tail dragger endorsements, an R-22 helicopter, and a twin-engine Beech Baron. They also have a Frasca 132 instrument simulator. The chief instructor is also the President, Meynard Halili.
Brief but revealing articles about Meynard:
Meynard the Medicine Man Flying in Crosswinds
Aerobatic Pilot Flying in Crosswinds
As you can see, Meynard isn't just an instructor. He was a cigarette vendor. He uplifted himself and eventually became an executive at Philippine Airlines. He retired and started a freight forwarding business that is thriving today. He learned to fly at the age of 40+. And when he did, he did it all in one single year. PPL, CPL, FI, ATPL, powered and unpowered aerobatics, glider, rotary wing, amphibian.
Airworks is the diamond of flying schools. If you go there, you should be
1. Already done with primary training
2. Ready for a grueling, demanding, challenging and intense education
3. Willing to pay.
It's like joining the Navy SEALs. The washout rate is not low.
Eyeglasses
The only CAAP requirement for a student pilot license is 20/20 corrected and zero color blindness. Those are also the only requirements for a private pilot license.
Flying schools generally do not have any requirement for vision. Why would they turn money down? They only need to adhere to the CAAP requirement.
The requirement for 20/20 UNcorrected vision is an AIRLINE requirement, and if varies from airline to airline. When a company hires you, they are legally required (in the Philippines and most countries) to keep you employed despite future changes in your medical condition. They are legally required to keep you employed even after your eyesight deteriorates. Wearing glasses is not a disability. The CAAP allows it. So they cannot fire you for deteriorating vision.
SO, the airlines make it a requirement that you must be 20/20 UNcorrected when they hire you. Why would they hire someone whose vision is already deteriorated? You would do the same -- hire someone who is at the peak of health, because later in his employment you would have to provide medical benefits and insurance.
So, it is an AIRLINE requirement. Not an OMNI requirement or a CAAP requirement.
Fatal
The word FATAL always has and always will mean there was a fatality. A fatal accident means someone died. Legally, grammatically and colloquially, FATAL means someone died. So if no one died, an accident is not a FATAL accident. There were no fatalities. It may be an expensive accident, it may be a major accident, a bloody accident, a catastrophic accident, a financially ruinous accident, a stupid accident, a moronic accident, an idiotic accident, a weather accident, whatever, but if no one died, it was not a fatal accident.
Omni
Consider this:
Omni charged a friend of mine PhP3,500 (US$75) to "facilitate" the renewal of his National Telecommunications Commission radio license for pilots. I did it myself in single morning, no bribes, no fixer, for less than P500 (US$12) for a 3-year license.
Omni charged a friend of mine over PhP20,000 (US$500) for CAAP licensing fees. The actual cost of an SPL is less than PhP600 (US$15) for a student pilot license and the accompanying medical exam. When my friend, dumbfounded, asked why it was so expensive, they said it included his check ride.
Note that my friend had not yet even enrolled in the private pilot course, never mind completing it, and they were already charging him for the private pilot check ride which could be a year or more away.
Besides, the check ride takes one hour. An hour in a Cessna 152 costs just P8,000-9,000 pesos.
"Expensive" does not even begin to cover Omni's fees. Try "exorbitant" or "outlandish".
Airworks is not a simple flying school. They specialize in instrument training, multi-engine rating, rotary wing (Meynard trains Philippine Navy helicopter pilots) and aerobatic training.
They don't do primary training. (Primary training is the initial training a student pilot goes through.) They simply don't do that. They are a graduate school of flying.
They have a Bellanca Super Decathlon for aerobatics and tail dragger endorsements, an R-22 helicopter, and a twin-engine Beech Baron. They also have a Frasca 132 instrument simulator. The chief instructor is also the President, Meynard Halili.
Brief but revealing articles about Meynard:
Meynard the Medicine Man Flying in Crosswinds
Aerobatic Pilot Flying in Crosswinds
As you can see, Meynard isn't just an instructor. He was a cigarette vendor. He uplifted himself and eventually became an executive at Philippine Airlines. He retired and started a freight forwarding business that is thriving today. He learned to fly at the age of 40+. And when he did, he did it all in one single year. PPL, CPL, FI, ATPL, powered and unpowered aerobatics, glider, rotary wing, amphibian.
Airworks is the diamond of flying schools. If you go there, you should be
1. Already done with primary training
2. Ready for a grueling, demanding, challenging and intense education
3. Willing to pay.
It's like joining the Navy SEALs. The washout rate is not low.
Eyeglasses
The only CAAP requirement for a student pilot license is 20/20 corrected and zero color blindness. Those are also the only requirements for a private pilot license.
Flying schools generally do not have any requirement for vision. Why would they turn money down? They only need to adhere to the CAAP requirement.
The requirement for 20/20 UNcorrected vision is an AIRLINE requirement, and if varies from airline to airline. When a company hires you, they are legally required (in the Philippines and most countries) to keep you employed despite future changes in your medical condition. They are legally required to keep you employed even after your eyesight deteriorates. Wearing glasses is not a disability. The CAAP allows it. So they cannot fire you for deteriorating vision.
SO, the airlines make it a requirement that you must be 20/20 UNcorrected when they hire you. Why would they hire someone whose vision is already deteriorated? You would do the same -- hire someone who is at the peak of health, because later in his employment you would have to provide medical benefits and insurance.
So, it is an AIRLINE requirement. Not an OMNI requirement or a CAAP requirement.
Fatal
The word FATAL always has and always will mean there was a fatality. A fatal accident means someone died. Legally, grammatically and colloquially, FATAL means someone died. So if no one died, an accident is not a FATAL accident. There were no fatalities. It may be an expensive accident, it may be a major accident, a bloody accident, a catastrophic accident, a financially ruinous accident, a stupid accident, a moronic accident, an idiotic accident, a weather accident, whatever, but if no one died, it was not a fatal accident.
Omni
Consider this:
Omni charged a friend of mine PhP3,500 (US$75) to "facilitate" the renewal of his National Telecommunications Commission radio license for pilots. I did it myself in single morning, no bribes, no fixer, for less than P500 (US$12) for a 3-year license.
Omni charged a friend of mine over PhP20,000 (US$500) for CAAP licensing fees. The actual cost of an SPL is less than PhP600 (US$15) for a student pilot license and the accompanying medical exam. When my friend, dumbfounded, asked why it was so expensive, they said it included his check ride.
Note that my friend had not yet even enrolled in the private pilot course, never mind completing it, and they were already charging him for the private pilot check ride which could be a year or more away.
Besides, the check ride takes one hour. An hour in a Cessna 152 costs just P8,000-9,000 pesos.
"Expensive" does not even begin to cover Omni's fees. Try "exorbitant" or "outlandish".
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omni's PPL moneymaking racket
PRIVATE PILOT LICENSE COSTS
Ground School 90 hrs 300.00/hr 27,000.00
Dual/Solo C152 40 hrs (min) 6,000.00/hr 240,000.00
Operational Charges & Landing Fees 17,050.00
Books and Materials 16,500.00
Licensing Fees 32,000.00
COURSE TOTAL PHP 332,550.00
WOW. Can someone explain to me "Operational Charges & Landing Fees" and"Licensing Fees"? They are a business, not a school.
Ground School 90 hrs 300.00/hr 27,000.00
Dual/Solo C152 40 hrs (min) 6,000.00/hr 240,000.00
Operational Charges & Landing Fees 17,050.00
Books and Materials 16,500.00
Licensing Fees 32,000.00
COURSE TOTAL PHP 332,550.00
WOW. Can someone explain to me "Operational Charges & Landing Fees" and"Licensing Fees"? They are a business, not a school.
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Where did you get your cost.
To the poster claiming Omni Charges 8-9,000 Peso's per hour....They do not charge that much for a C-152, please get your facts correct before you post.
Second, the flying school is not a "Money Making Racket", it is a business, actually every school is a business unless it is a Gov't funded school. You pay fees to attend University, would you call Harvard or Cambridge "Money making Rackets"? If a school loses money it will close, just like any other business, so you get what you pay for.
I have both Transport Canada and FAA Airman certificates and I would say that Omni is as good as it get's in the Philippines. They have a large fleet of well maintained aircraft and they have been constantly training new instructors in a professional development course because they are losing so many of them to the airlines. If they are bad, why would the airlines be hiring them? They, along with PAL and Clark Aviation were the only schools to gain CAAP approval within one week, the other's are still trying to gain approvals, and a few are, slowly. The Philippines just went through a major exercise in overhauling their ATO and forming the CAAP so many schools failed to meet standards. Omni DID meet the new standards. As for the quality of training, it is very good and they do not allow 'Cheating', meaning that you actually have to fly the hours that you put in your log book. Many schools here cheat by filling a 172 with three students and having all of them log PIC time with only one of them flying, which is why many have been closed by the CAAP. Omni has good classrooms and good facilities and you have to earn your ratings and certificates, no cheating at all. Omni just expanded their facilities and have a large building at Subic Bay which is very well equiped, they are in the process of providing Glass Cockpit simulators for the G1000 and have recently leased an Advanced Simulator from the US that can emulate both a C-172 and a PA34 Twin, with full wrap around visuals and force feedback controls.
The reason I know this is because I did my conversion of my FAA license to a Philippines license with Omni and I also am part of the company that manufactures the FAA AATD simulators in the USA that Omni will be using. We do our due dilligency before we partner with anyone. PAL is a closed shop, although they do have a couple of C-172s fitted with G-1000, but expensive to use. Clarke Aviation is no longer training students for their PPL, CPL, Inst, Multi ratings, they have farmed this out to Omni and they are now simply using their A-320 full motion Simulator for training the local and regional airline crews. The CAE Provided Sim is operating from 7am to 4am daily.
Lastly, the reasons aircraft engines fail are many, including bad fuel, catstrophic failure of parts etc, the fact that the aircraft engine failed is not in question, the fact that the student pilots managed to make an emergency landing in a rice plantation without killing themselves or others on the ground should be testament to the quality of the training provided by the school. I suggest that you look up the US NTSB for a list of flying school aircraft crashes and incedents before you make claims about Omni's record. With a larger training fleet than anyone else in the Philippines they are bound to have a proportionate rate of flying hours to aircraft system failures etc. Do the math.
Second, the flying school is not a "Money Making Racket", it is a business, actually every school is a business unless it is a Gov't funded school. You pay fees to attend University, would you call Harvard or Cambridge "Money making Rackets"? If a school loses money it will close, just like any other business, so you get what you pay for.
I have both Transport Canada and FAA Airman certificates and I would say that Omni is as good as it get's in the Philippines. They have a large fleet of well maintained aircraft and they have been constantly training new instructors in a professional development course because they are losing so many of them to the airlines. If they are bad, why would the airlines be hiring them? They, along with PAL and Clark Aviation were the only schools to gain CAAP approval within one week, the other's are still trying to gain approvals, and a few are, slowly. The Philippines just went through a major exercise in overhauling their ATO and forming the CAAP so many schools failed to meet standards. Omni DID meet the new standards. As for the quality of training, it is very good and they do not allow 'Cheating', meaning that you actually have to fly the hours that you put in your log book. Many schools here cheat by filling a 172 with three students and having all of them log PIC time with only one of them flying, which is why many have been closed by the CAAP. Omni has good classrooms and good facilities and you have to earn your ratings and certificates, no cheating at all. Omni just expanded their facilities and have a large building at Subic Bay which is very well equiped, they are in the process of providing Glass Cockpit simulators for the G1000 and have recently leased an Advanced Simulator from the US that can emulate both a C-172 and a PA34 Twin, with full wrap around visuals and force feedback controls.
The reason I know this is because I did my conversion of my FAA license to a Philippines license with Omni and I also am part of the company that manufactures the FAA AATD simulators in the USA that Omni will be using. We do our due dilligency before we partner with anyone. PAL is a closed shop, although they do have a couple of C-172s fitted with G-1000, but expensive to use. Clarke Aviation is no longer training students for their PPL, CPL, Inst, Multi ratings, they have farmed this out to Omni and they are now simply using their A-320 full motion Simulator for training the local and regional airline crews. The CAE Provided Sim is operating from 7am to 4am daily.
Lastly, the reasons aircraft engines fail are many, including bad fuel, catstrophic failure of parts etc, the fact that the aircraft engine failed is not in question, the fact that the student pilots managed to make an emergency landing in a rice plantation without killing themselves or others on the ground should be testament to the quality of the training provided by the school. I suggest that you look up the US NTSB for a list of flying school aircraft crashes and incedents before you make claims about Omni's record. With a larger training fleet than anyone else in the Philippines they are bound to have a proportionate rate of flying hours to aircraft system failures etc. Do the math.
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Wannabe
With your attitude toffee , you wouldn't go far in aviation. We work in a relatively close world where attitude , respect and decency are as important as flying skills. Hundreds of us at Pal, Bupak and others read this thread. We won't tolerate guys like you in the cockpit. Go fly a kite! And stay at the wannebees area.
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Facts, Facts, Facts
I also am part of the company that manufactures the FAA AATD simulators in the USA that Omni will be using.
PAL is a closed shop, although they do have a couple of C-172s fitted with G-1000,
Clarke Aviation is no longer training students for their PPL, CPL, Inst, Multi ratings, they have farmed this out to Omni
Facts, facts, facts ... .
You missed the point re the P8,000-9,000.
Omni charges over P20,000 as "licensing fees". Imagine! P20,000++ just to get your student license! The actual legitimate CAAP fees for the medical tests and license processing add up to less than P800, but Omni charges students P20,000++.
Omni justifies their P20,000++ by saying it includes the cost of the (far in the future) PPL checkride. But a one-hour checkride in a Cessna 152 doesn't get you from P800 to P20,000.
So if, as you say, the cost of an hour in a 152 is less than what I said, you actually reinforce my point -- that Omni is charging exorbitantly for licensing fees. How do they justify P20,000?! A one-hour check ride, as you say, is not that expensive.
(I am now told they charge over P35,000, not P20,000.)
They swindled one of their best friends for years. You should read his story. Flying in Crosswinds. It turns out they were not authorized to maintain airplanes. Including their own. Caught by an ICAO audit.
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20k License fee
It's actually 32k. Let's say that the check ride cost 6k and that license cost 800, which is actually a huge difference but come-on guys. This IS business, they do need to include operational cost plus it's not like others are any lower! Of course they will try to make money of you! From what I hear they have a pretty good reputation, their training is up in the top 3 schools in the Phil and they got the new CAAP license within weeks. If paying 32k for a license fee that will insure me that I get one of the best trainings to fly, why not?
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specify engine quitting
i have friends with omni and not once have they mentioned anything about a plane's engine quitting IN FLIGHT. the next worse thing about women spreading rumors are the pilots spreading rumors.. be it true or not, something like an engine quitting would definitely be an interesting topic of conversation. and i, as a very interested soon-to-be (not wannabe), listen very carefully.
my friends tell me of instances where their engines sputter during their engine run-up (or for the laymen, engine check) because of low rpm when checked for the lower limits. any engine with a low idling rpm would sputter and die, that includes cars' engines as well.
if this is the case, i would rather fly with a pilot that checks his plane's performance while on the ground than for it to happen while in flight.
they have not heard of any of OMNI'S engines quitting in flight... and they are there nearly 24/7.
most of these rumors are malicious and destructive and most probably from a bitter rival flying school.
for those that are shopping around for flying schools, do what most of my friends did.. they didnt talk to the staff (because they'll try to sell the school of course), they talked to the students.. old and new.
my friends tell me of instances where their engines sputter during their engine run-up (or for the laymen, engine check) because of low rpm when checked for the lower limits. any engine with a low idling rpm would sputter and die, that includes cars' engines as well.
if this is the case, i would rather fly with a pilot that checks his plane's performance while on the ground than for it to happen while in flight.
they have not heard of any of OMNI'S engines quitting in flight... and they are there nearly 24/7.
most of these rumors are malicious and destructive and most probably from a bitter rival flying school.
for those that are shopping around for flying schools, do what most of my friends did.. they didnt talk to the staff (because they'll try to sell the school of course), they talked to the students.. old and new.