SIA Singapore Cargo
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SIA Singapore Cargo
Hello everyone,
I have 3 questions for the European pilots flying with SIA! and others!
1) Are there any pilots based in Europe? If yes where?
Are they really operating from base or are they commuting every time with Singapore/network?
2) Have you seen many fast left seat upgrades with reasonably experienced Narrow body jet Cpt (6000hrs on type)? How long would you expect in average to go from the cruse Cpt position to the left seat?
3) How much is a bond in this case?
Regards
Icare
I have 3 questions for the European pilots flying with SIA! and others!
1) Are there any pilots based in Europe? If yes where?
Are they really operating from base or are they commuting every time with Singapore/network?
2) Have you seen many fast left seat upgrades with reasonably experienced Narrow body jet Cpt (6000hrs on type)? How long would you expect in average to go from the cruse Cpt position to the left seat?
3) How much is a bond in this case?
Regards
Icare
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Icare about your questions
1.- Base just Singapore , no time for commuting if you go America or Europe and you have to pay a ticket,........ discount? yes but is almost the same price as full fare and subload.
2.- Fast upgrade?, at least 3 years and then move to local term and get into the pool. (think about 5 years)
3.- Bond? Same as everybody 23k
If you are looking for info go to another thread About SQ cargo on pprune a lot of answer there.
cheers
1.- Base just Singapore , no time for commuting if you go America or Europe and you have to pay a ticket,........ discount? yes but is almost the same price as full fare and subload.
2.- Fast upgrade?, at least 3 years and then move to local term and get into the pool. (think about 5 years)
3.- Bond? Same as everybody 23k
If you are looking for info go to another thread About SQ cargo on pprune a lot of answer there.
cheers
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Icare
You dont seem to have been given the direct answers to your questions.
I dont know the answer to question 3 exactly but the answer to question 1 is -- There are no basings and no one is based outside of Singapore.
Question 2--There has not been a single right to left seat upgrade in SIACargo so any answer to that question is supposition.
Hope that clears it up a bit.
You dont seem to have been given the direct answers to your questions.
I dont know the answer to question 3 exactly but the answer to question 1 is -- There are no basings and no one is based outside of Singapore.
Question 2--There has not been a single right to left seat upgrade in SIACargo so any answer to that question is supposition.
Hope that clears it up a bit.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Q1 No! Everyone is SIN based. Some try to commute but given the roster disruption it can be stressful and expensive.
Q2. I have been here 3 years. Number of upgrades in that time. Zero, nil nada, Zip!
Q3. The bond is SIN$142,000 over 5 years. You have to put SIN$56,000 of that up as a bank guarantee (for which the banks will charge up to SIN$5,000 on day 1) and the 5 years doesn't start until completion of conversion.
Q4 (the question you haven't asked) Its ok for an expat Captain if it suits your personal circumstances but I would strongly suggest that, as an F/O, you look in the direction of the sandpit if you want a quick command on expat terms and a career as opposed to an adventure.
Its Captains we are short of now, not F/Os, and until the package goes up substantially that will remain the case.
Q2. I have been here 3 years. Number of upgrades in that time. Zero, nil nada, Zip!
Q3. The bond is SIN$142,000 over 5 years. You have to put SIN$56,000 of that up as a bank guarantee (for which the banks will charge up to SIN$5,000 on day 1) and the 5 years doesn't start until completion of conversion.
Q4 (the question you haven't asked) Its ok for an expat Captain if it suits your personal circumstances but I would strongly suggest that, as an F/O, you look in the direction of the sandpit if you want a quick command on expat terms and a career as opposed to an adventure.
Its Captains we are short of now, not F/Os, and until the package goes up substantially that will remain the case.
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First and most important step is to get all your admin absolutely spot on - otherwise you will be turned away at the door.
A fairly short interview with a couple of management pilots then a free go in either the B744 or B777 sim. Normal take Off, SID, steep turns, STAR, ILS Land. Another take off, V1 cut, around the pattern. Land. If all went well on Day 1 you will be invited to stay for the medical on day 2.
I would not recommend SIA Cargo as an F/O expat position though. No real possibility of command, expensive cost of living, especially if you have children and there are much better F/O positions available elsewhere.
A fairly short interview with a couple of management pilots then a free go in either the B744 or B777 sim. Normal take Off, SID, steep turns, STAR, ILS Land. Another take off, V1 cut, around the pattern. Land. If all went well on Day 1 you will be invited to stay for the medical on day 2.
I would not recommend SIA Cargo as an F/O expat position though. No real possibility of command, expensive cost of living, especially if you have children and there are much better F/O positions available elsewhere.
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Having said that...current employment plans require a number of Direct Entry Capts, plus the "quick Commands" are up to bat. Cargo hired a small number or narrow body (previous command time) pilots a while back with a plan to convert these guys to Capt after some time in the RHS. "Batter Up!" It's time for those guys now. They do have to change from Expat terms to Local, but some seem to be accepting of that change...guess it depends on what a guy feels is right for himself. So there are a few chances to change seats here but it's a slow process. Cheers...
LC
LC
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Hi LC,
Not oftens I disagree with you but here goes.
There 'may' be the odd opportunity for a command course but, if that is to be the case, it strikes me as odd that we have just offered DEC positions to guys who don't meet the previously established criteria to even apply.
SIA Cargo is totally cost focussed and it therefore makes sense (to them) to recruit DECs and carry out one conversion rather than carry out long command courses and have to recruit an F/O to replace the command candidate - thereby paying for 2 courses.
And the idea of transferring to local terms to even be considered for a command is not an 'offer' I recommend any F/O avails himself of. It gives SIA Cargo total control of your life.
You want a quick command? Go to the sandpit. Three years - tops!
Pistols at dawn LC?
Not oftens I disagree with you but here goes.
There 'may' be the odd opportunity for a command course but, if that is to be the case, it strikes me as odd that we have just offered DEC positions to guys who don't meet the previously established criteria to even apply.
SIA Cargo is totally cost focussed and it therefore makes sense (to them) to recruit DECs and carry out one conversion rather than carry out long command courses and have to recruit an F/O to replace the command candidate - thereby paying for 2 courses.
And the idea of transferring to local terms to even be considered for a command is not an 'offer' I recommend any F/O avails himself of. It gives SIA Cargo total control of your life.
You want a quick command? Go to the sandpit. Three years - tops!
Pistols at dawn LC?
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 2nd Apr 2008 at 08:38. Reason: spellin
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Hey...Can I choose the weapons? I do know of one or two guys (only) who have been tagged for the command...previously promised the deal....But who knows if they will take it?
BTW...you have to wait 'til I get back...you choose the time!
Cheers
LC
BTW...you have to wait 'til I get back...you choose the time!
CheersLC
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BB,
Anyone thinks that ANY business, airline or otherwise isn't cost driven is kidding themselves.
The criteria for employment, once CAAS requirements for the position are met, are purely a function of supply!
If cargo feels the most cost effective means of filling left seats is promote from within, then that's what they will do.
Conversion from within at this point makes sense given the annual bonus is forthcoming. Otherwise, able bodied f/o's are off to the sandpit. If Cargo has enough replacements, don't expect any in house conversions.
In any event, it will be interesting. It always is this time of year!
Anyone thinks that ANY business, airline or otherwise isn't cost driven is kidding themselves.
The criteria for employment, once CAAS requirements for the position are met, are purely a function of supply!
If cargo feels the most cost effective means of filling left seats is promote from within, then that's what they will do.
Conversion from within at this point makes sense given the annual bonus is forthcoming. Otherwise, able bodied f/o's are off to the sandpit. If Cargo has enough replacements, don't expect any in house conversions.
In any event, it will be interesting. It always is this time of year!
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For the sake of the guys that were fed 'assurances' at interview and subsequently, I hope that you are correct. But how can it be cheaper to run 2 conversions (necessary if promoting from within) rather than just the one for a DEC?
Of course all businesses are cost driven, but the smart ones realise that a little money spent now (for example on significant improvements to Terms and Conditions in line with inflation and market rate) will save a lot of money later by not having to replace pilots that resign to take better Ts and Cs at other airlines or leave in search of the very promotions that you speak of.
I agree with your sentiments - I just can't see it happening.
Of course all businesses are cost driven, but the smart ones realise that a little money spent now (for example on significant improvements to Terms and Conditions in line with inflation and market rate) will save a lot of money later by not having to replace pilots that resign to take better Ts and Cs at other airlines or leave in search of the very promotions that you speak of.
I agree with your sentiments - I just can't see it happening.
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BB,
The assumption I am making on conversions is that if Capts. leave through "normal" attrition (retire,sick) and the company never promotes f/o's, the f/o's will leave for greener pastures. Result, 2 training cycles.
If the company "promotes from within", as you correctly pointed out, 2 training cycles are also produced.
The choice facing the company is the availability of applicants and their qualifications.
The dilemma of promote from within really doesn't have to be faced until the first batch of f/o's who were cadets gain enough experience for command conversion. Market forces (pilot availability) may dictate otherwise but that situation doesn't appear to be happening in the expat f/o ranks.
Unfortunately, for all expats, as long as there is an ample pool of qualified candidates any leverage for promotion or increase in benefits is minimal to non-existant.
The lack of leverage doesn't mean improvements can't be requested. It just means they can't be demanded.
The assumption I am making on conversions is that if Capts. leave through "normal" attrition (retire,sick) and the company never promotes f/o's, the f/o's will leave for greener pastures. Result, 2 training cycles.
If the company "promotes from within", as you correctly pointed out, 2 training cycles are also produced.
The choice facing the company is the availability of applicants and their qualifications.
The dilemma of promote from within really doesn't have to be faced until the first batch of f/o's who were cadets gain enough experience for command conversion. Market forces (pilot availability) may dictate otherwise but that situation doesn't appear to be happening in the expat f/o ranks.
Unfortunately, for all expats, as long as there is an ample pool of qualified candidates any leverage for promotion or increase in benefits is minimal to non-existant.
The lack of leverage doesn't mean improvements can't be requested. It just means they can't be demanded.
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Why is it that whenever I think of a request for 'more' anything made to SIA I get this image of the film 'Oliver Twist' in my head?
The latest 'request' for an inflation matching pay rise has, in real terms, resulted in the Bananas family being $900 per month worse off than they were this time last year.
It's not rocket science. SIA Cargo is steadily driving quality and experience out and recruiting guys (30 Captains short already I believe) who (always with one or two exceptions) are prepared to work for peanuts. And does SIA Cargo care? No, as long as they have a bum on a seat, of course not. But when another approach incident becomes a smoking hole in the ground, then they might realise that safety costs.
That reason alone is giving many people good cause to look around.
The latest 'request' for an inflation matching pay rise has, in real terms, resulted in the Bananas family being $900 per month worse off than they were this time last year.
It's not rocket science. SIA Cargo is steadily driving quality and experience out and recruiting guys (30 Captains short already I believe) who (always with one or two exceptions) are prepared to work for peanuts. And does SIA Cargo care? No, as long as they have a bum on a seat, of course not. But when another approach incident becomes a smoking hole in the ground, then they might realise that safety costs.
That reason alone is giving many people good cause to look around.
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 19th Apr 2008 at 09:40.
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SIA CARGO Latest ?
Looking for straight and honest answers regarding the following scheduling practices at SIA CARGO:
1- How many days in SIN each month?
2- How many flight hours/mth?
3- On 3 or 4 men crew, how is the flight time calculated for pay, 100% or less?
4- Deadheading counts for 50 or 100%?
5- Can annual leave be taken in slices of 7/14/21days or must be taken in full once a year?
6- Does anyone make overtime?
7- How about industry ID tickets for SIA Cargo division?
Thank you very much to anyone who can provide the latest on these working conditions at the CARGO division.
1- How many days in SIN each month?
2- How many flight hours/mth?
3- On 3 or 4 men crew, how is the flight time calculated for pay, 100% or less?
4- Deadheading counts for 50 or 100%?
5- Can annual leave be taken in slices of 7/14/21days or must be taken in full once a year?
6- Does anyone make overtime?
7- How about industry ID tickets for SIA Cargo division?
Thank you very much to anyone who can provide the latest on these working conditions at the CARGO division.
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Some answers
1. 6 to 12 days in SIN. Avarage about 10 (contract says 8).
2. Some get 40 h others 60-70 hours a month it differs.
3. 100%
4. If you travel out of SIN to start your flight in some other place 0%
and some month you do 40h paxing on SIA.DH on freighter gives 50%
5.You can split your days off.
6. No overtime
7. ID tickets is very bad, better to buy regular tickets.
Nice flying but very unstable roster, difficult for a family at least for captains.
1. 6 to 12 days in SIN. Avarage about 10 (contract says 8).
2. Some get 40 h others 60-70 hours a month it differs.
3. 100%
4. If you travel out of SIN to start your flight in some other place 0%
and some month you do 40h paxing on SIA.DH on freighter gives 50%
5.You can split your days off.
6. No overtime
7. ID tickets is very bad, better to buy regular tickets.
Nice flying but very unstable roster, difficult for a family at least for captains.
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Hi Icare,
To answer your question, there are a few narrow body (737, 320) captains in SIA/SIA Cargo. They came in as DEC without any widebody time at all (as capt/fo). So if you have anything more than 3000 PIC on these jets, it is worth trying.
To answer your question, there are a few narrow body (737, 320) captains in SIA/SIA Cargo. They came in as DEC without any widebody time at all (as capt/fo). So if you have anything more than 3000 PIC on these jets, it is worth trying.
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Hi, Just found out that SIA mainline will look at narrow body command time for consideration for DEC, but Cargo wants wide body time for DEC applications. The narrow body guys at cargo start as FO with a sort of fastrack to command program. But it may be on local terms for the upgrades at Cargo...some small rumour that IT might change...but it's ONLY a rumour...Hope that helps
Cheers
LC
Cheers
LC
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I also heard a rumour that the rumour was spread so as to entice expat FO's not to quit after they get their bonus and also to encourage current FO's to extend their contracts.
My advice is not to make any career decisions based on rumours and false promises. Alot of folks have been sorely dissapointed.
My advice is not to make any career decisions based on rumours and false promises. Alot of folks have been sorely dissapointed.