Malaysia based flying academy
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Malaysia based flying academy
If you were given a chance to choose any one of these Malaysia based flying academy, which 1 will you choose to be enrolled with?
I am actually doing this survey for some reason. I've heard tonnes of bad testimonial about Malaysia flying school. As for me, I'm a newbie planning to be a self-funded pilot and hopefully this survey could help me isolate some of the "GOOD" and "BAD" schools.
IT WOULD BE GREAT IF EVERYONE CAN GIVE REASON WHY THEY CHOOSE THAT PARTICULAR SCHOOL AND WHY NOT OTHERS.
Thank you.
- -Malaysia Flying Academy (MFA) www.mfa.edu.my
- -Asia Pacific Flight Training (APFT) www.asiapacificflighttraining.com
- -Gulf Golden International Flying Academy (GGIFA) www.ggifa.org
- -HM Aerospace (HMA) www.hmaerospace.com
- -Integrated Aviation Academy (IAA) www.integrated-avac.com
- -Subang Flying Club (SFC) www.subanghighflyers.com
I am actually doing this survey for some reason. I've heard tonnes of bad testimonial about Malaysia flying school. As for me, I'm a newbie planning to be a self-funded pilot and hopefully this survey could help me isolate some of the "GOOD" and "BAD" schools.
IT WOULD BE GREAT IF EVERYONE CAN GIVE REASON WHY THEY CHOOSE THAT PARTICULAR SCHOOL AND WHY NOT OTHERS.
Thank you.
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Malaysia Aviation Discussion
Hello klumpur,
Ah...long time never hear about these Malaysian Flight Schools!
There are many F.I. from these flight schools in this forum and those negetive discussion threads (related to these Malaysian flight schools) were pushed back.
Believe it or not, if you do a search, you will notice that these threads were no longer discussed. They were done on purpose, so that newbies (who wanted to fly in Malaysia) are unable to read those bad things about Malaysian Flight schools!
By the way, SFC is not an APFT school. It is a club.
Ah...long time never hear about these Malaysian Flight Schools!
There are many F.I. from these flight schools in this forum and those negetive discussion threads (related to these Malaysian flight schools) were pushed back.
Believe it or not, if you do a search, you will notice that these threads were no longer discussed. They were done on purpose, so that newbies (who wanted to fly in Malaysia) are unable to read those bad things about Malaysian Flight schools!
By the way, SFC is not an APFT school. It is a club.
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The story of the Malaysian Schools is a serie of avatars since MFA explodes in 2002.
It could have been brilliant, unfortunately Business men expecting a fast return on investment or short in cash flow with exagerated ambitions, have invaded this activity. I will stay generic.
The Ground Schools are generally in order, however a trend to work only the examination questions and not to teach the subjects. All the notes are -more or less- updated versions of MFA notes, themselves "inspired" by the deceased british school PPSC. The CA6/CA2 system (plus DCAT) monitored by UK CAA need to be updated and Malaysian DCA is expecting to go JAR (or close to) at some times but obviously the schools are far to be ready for this improvement and most of Groundies are underestimating the work to be done to be at JAR level, believing it is just a slight enhancement of UK-CAA International system.
But compared to neighbours,- (most on Basic ICAO/FAA ground studies) the Malaysians Ground Schools can -for most of them- be considered as OK.
In the Malaysian FTOs, the main issue is the Flying Side: in general not enough Flight Instructors, poor "standardisation", poor activity management, botched instrument Rating phase, very poor utilisation of simulators by the instructors.
In some schools, Militaries - without any clues of Civil Aviation culture- are dominating. To explain the issue, I will compare with a restaurant: a chinese "Chef" is very good for chinese cooking, a french "chef" is very good for western cooking but if you ask the french "chef" to prepare chinese cooking without a 'bridging" training, the result will be quite poor (and vice versa for the chinese "chef"). On this specific issue, UK CAA has edited a "flight training guide" for military pilots who want to join civil aviation activities. This document is a good base to organise "bridging courses". Unfortunately, too much arrogance makes people deaf and blind.
Some schools are recruiting flight Instructors in a panic due to the flooding of their flying school, there is no standardisation and some instructors are notoriously ' far below what we can expect.
Another point is often the chaotic organisation of the fleet maintenance: have you ever seen 70% of a fleet grounded for scheduled maintenance? yes, it can happen in some Malaysian FTOs. What about control of some maintenance operations? How the work of a LAME (Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer) can be checked if there is only one LAME in the school?
For Klumpur, if really you want to become a good professional, I recommand to get a full JAR licence in one of the worldwide schools training in the JAR system and then to make a conversion in Malaysian License. From some feedback, I have understood MAS is fully obstructed by political pressures but the secret wish of MAS executives is to train their cadets...abroad.
This is my 3 cents on the Malaysian FTOs
It could have been brilliant, unfortunately Business men expecting a fast return on investment or short in cash flow with exagerated ambitions, have invaded this activity. I will stay generic.
The Ground Schools are generally in order, however a trend to work only the examination questions and not to teach the subjects. All the notes are -more or less- updated versions of MFA notes, themselves "inspired" by the deceased british school PPSC. The CA6/CA2 system (plus DCAT) monitored by UK CAA need to be updated and Malaysian DCA is expecting to go JAR (or close to) at some times but obviously the schools are far to be ready for this improvement and most of Groundies are underestimating the work to be done to be at JAR level, believing it is just a slight enhancement of UK-CAA International system.
But compared to neighbours,- (most on Basic ICAO/FAA ground studies) the Malaysians Ground Schools can -for most of them- be considered as OK.
In the Malaysian FTOs, the main issue is the Flying Side: in general not enough Flight Instructors, poor "standardisation", poor activity management, botched instrument Rating phase, very poor utilisation of simulators by the instructors.
In some schools, Militaries - without any clues of Civil Aviation culture- are dominating. To explain the issue, I will compare with a restaurant: a chinese "Chef" is very good for chinese cooking, a french "chef" is very good for western cooking but if you ask the french "chef" to prepare chinese cooking without a 'bridging" training, the result will be quite poor (and vice versa for the chinese "chef"). On this specific issue, UK CAA has edited a "flight training guide" for military pilots who want to join civil aviation activities. This document is a good base to organise "bridging courses". Unfortunately, too much arrogance makes people deaf and blind.
Some schools are recruiting flight Instructors in a panic due to the flooding of their flying school, there is no standardisation and some instructors are notoriously ' far below what we can expect.
Another point is often the chaotic organisation of the fleet maintenance: have you ever seen 70% of a fleet grounded for scheduled maintenance? yes, it can happen in some Malaysian FTOs. What about control of some maintenance operations? How the work of a LAME (Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer) can be checked if there is only one LAME in the school?
For Klumpur, if really you want to become a good professional, I recommand to get a full JAR licence in one of the worldwide schools training in the JAR system and then to make a conversion in Malaysian License. From some feedback, I have understood MAS is fully obstructed by political pressures but the secret wish of MAS executives is to train their cadets...abroad.
This is my 3 cents on the Malaysian FTOs
Last edited by Passenger 07; 22nd Dec 2007 at 22:58.
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Wow Passanger 07, you hit it direct on the nose. I was trained abroad so I can say that it is true. Even MAS cadets nowadays the standards are dropping , but when they get the experience, a lot will be leaving MAS and going to middle east. Real soon more from MAS and AK will also be leaving. I heard from a friend told me that AK does not have to pay their co pilot good money due to they are not "Marketable". See what will he say after this. MAS co pilot also will leave due to being stuck for few years in the wide body. Well bottom line is, more money over there.
I still think the best training school here in Malaysia is MAS training center, where they trained co pilot till they get 1500 to 3000 hrs, and the co pilot migrated outside.
For training school to get your ATPL, I guest, better check the Kelantan trainning school. Too many horror stories about Melaka. About Langkawi, I'm not sure.
I still think the best training school here in Malaysia is MAS training center, where they trained co pilot till they get 1500 to 3000 hrs, and the co pilot migrated outside.
For training school to get your ATPL, I guest, better check the Kelantan trainning school. Too many horror stories about Melaka. About Langkawi, I'm not sure.
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You really want to be asking yourself where you can get the training to be a good pilot, not just a license to get employed. Your basics will always be with you.
Get a broader perspective. Widen your search.
biased
...go "down under" The real home of aviation
....like i said....I'm biased!
Get a broader perspective. Widen your search.
biased
...go "down under" The real home of aviation....like i said....I'm biased!
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its true. the training down under is for more better and more streamlined compared to malaysian flying schools.and with more airports and lesser traffic and many many little aerodromes spread all through out the rock,the experience you get is excellent.
and the $$$ is really not that much different compared to local trg.
and the $$$ is really not that much different compared to local trg.
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Enough of sabotage: there is a "Learning Curve" which has to be respected: all proper Instructors and teachers know this fact.
If a FAA licence can be done in one year, a standard JAR CPL/IR with MCC requires a minimum of 70 working weeks. (Holidays to be added)
The "dry" FAA licence is notoriously insufficient by itself. The only time, USA have tried to train Ab-Initio cadets for their own needs was in 2000 under a Clinton project. Unfortunately it has derailed due to September 11 events. USA have no Ab Initio Cadets scheme and no real experience on that. The FAA licence is inappropriate -alone- , it requires experience + University Grades:
==>Today, major US require experience (General Aviation/Military) and Aeronautical/Aviation University diplomas in plus of the FAA Licence .
But there are some famous US schools doing the JAR system (one of them has even trained the British Airways Cadets) as well as some Australian and sure all the European schools (and even a Thai school is starting on the Jar system); you have a worldwide choice if you want an adapted and proper ab-initio training giving you a maximum of chances to join an Airlines with a low hour log book and a professional profile so that, later on, your employer will not hesitate to promote you as a commander when you will reach the required seniority level.
If one day you need a FAA licence, as a JAR licence holder, it will be quite easy to pass through the examinations, there are several threads on this topic.....
"A walk in a park" as one JAR licensed ppruner was describing the FAA test...
You can find on Internet the Canadian Authority study (600 pages or more) which has motivated the shift of the Canadian system in 2002/2003 from a FAA similar system to a JAR close one; the invoked main reason was the Airline claims that the skills and knowledge of new pilots were not at the level Airlines needs.....
---------------------------------------
Extract of Wilkipedia Encyclopedia
The concept of the learning curve was introduced by the 19th-century German psychologist Hermann Ebbinghaus in his study of the efficiency of memorization. Ebbinghaus tested his long-term memory by attempting to memorize a series of nonsense syllables. He found that the more he repeated the series, the more of it he could remember, until finally he could recall the whole list. (In the same context, Ebbinghaus also introduced the term "forgetting curve".[4])
In 1936, Theodore Paul Wright described the effect of learning on labor productivity in the aircraft industry and proposed a mathematical model of the learning curve[5].
If a FAA licence can be done in one year, a standard JAR CPL/IR with MCC requires a minimum of 70 working weeks. (Holidays to be added)
The "dry" FAA licence is notoriously insufficient by itself. The only time, USA have tried to train Ab-Initio cadets for their own needs was in 2000 under a Clinton project. Unfortunately it has derailed due to September 11 events. USA have no Ab Initio Cadets scheme and no real experience on that. The FAA licence is inappropriate -alone- , it requires experience + University Grades:
==>Today, major US require experience (General Aviation/Military) and Aeronautical/Aviation University diplomas in plus of the FAA Licence .
But there are some famous US schools doing the JAR system (one of them has even trained the British Airways Cadets) as well as some Australian and sure all the European schools (and even a Thai school is starting on the Jar system); you have a worldwide choice if you want an adapted and proper ab-initio training giving you a maximum of chances to join an Airlines with a low hour log book and a professional profile so that, later on, your employer will not hesitate to promote you as a commander when you will reach the required seniority level.
If one day you need a FAA licence, as a JAR licence holder, it will be quite easy to pass through the examinations, there are several threads on this topic.....
"A walk in a park" as one JAR licensed ppruner was describing the FAA test...
You can find on Internet the Canadian Authority study (600 pages or more) which has motivated the shift of the Canadian system in 2002/2003 from a FAA similar system to a JAR close one; the invoked main reason was the Airline claims that the skills and knowledge of new pilots were not at the level Airlines needs.....
---------------------------------------
Extract of Wilkipedia Encyclopedia
The concept of the learning curve was introduced by the 19th-century German psychologist Hermann Ebbinghaus in his study of the efficiency of memorization. Ebbinghaus tested his long-term memory by attempting to memorize a series of nonsense syllables. He found that the more he repeated the series, the more of it he could remember, until finally he could recall the whole list. (In the same context, Ebbinghaus also introduced the term "forgetting curve".[4])
In 1936, Theodore Paul Wright described the effect of learning on labor productivity in the aircraft industry and proposed a mathematical model of the learning curve[5].
Last edited by Passenger 07; 25th Dec 2007 at 01:51.
My advice to you is check with the Malaysian DCA about whats required with license conversions if you do go down the path of getting a JAA or CASA license (forget about the FAA license). License conversions can be quite involved and costly too. If you want to fly in Malaysia and you are Malaysian, then get the Malaysian license. GGFIA looks very promising and have some experienced instructors from the Langkawi school. Check out their new website with their plans on development; it's very impressive. http://www.ggifa.org/
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only consider GGIFA and APFT. MFA should be your last choice although it's my alma mater the mass exodus of experienced FI there, expect the low quality standard of training there....unlike years before....
APFT has some grueling schedule for cadets. Woke up at 5, cant stay in the hostel even you dont fly that day . Only allowed to be back at hostel after 5pm.But discipline is good isn't it.
APFT has some grueling schedule for cadets. Woke up at 5, cant stay in the hostel even you dont fly that day . Only allowed to be back at hostel after 5pm.But discipline is good isn't it.
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Not so costly the Conversion ...as mainly only the ground School is involved (More some foreign schools -Australia, Thailand for example-, have former Malaysian Ground Instructors in their staff and can prepare you to the Malaysian CA2/CA6, within the "package" ). The Flying side of the conversion is reduced to some tests. It is well known than some european Instructors, JAR licence holders, have passed the Malaysian licence examination -on their own, without any ground training, because the JAR level is highly covering the Malaysian syllabus (Except in few obsolete remnants not yet removed in the Malaysian syllabus and that you have to study again in depth and some very few old questions in which today technology has nullified the good answer).
It is better to be trained as a professional and to get a Job in an airlines than to be useless and unable to reimburse the bank loans: consider twice the situation, the Malaysian market is fuelled with Malaysian CPL/IR most of them of poor quality due to their poor training, ....not every new malaysian CPL/IR will join the first class airlines,.... on contrary a proper professional training will give you a definitive advantage and later on the possibility to get a larger choice: choice of Airlines, not only to be confined to Malaysia....
Check thoroughly GGFIA and the other Malaysian schools, a Website can be an impressive construction of a IT specialist far from the real world.... Internet is the world of "Virtual".
I recommand to check particularly:
-Ratio of students per Flight Instructor, (Overall - Students in the Ground School and in the Flying School-less than 6 students per one Flight Instructor)
-fleet (one aircraft = around 6/7 students per year MAXIMUM),
-maintenance (How many LAME -Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer) . The JAR/FAR states that some operations must be cross checked.... so a bare minimum of 2 LAME, how is done this maintenance? Are the students autorised to fill the technical log book? If the technical log book are fully empty.... it does not mean that the aircraft are correctly maintained, on contrary.... there is probably somewhere a secrete note book....
- Do your contract (Like Airline cadet) comprise an engagement on maximum duration of the training and financial penalties if not respected?
Good Luck
It is better to be trained as a professional and to get a Job in an airlines than to be useless and unable to reimburse the bank loans: consider twice the situation, the Malaysian market is fuelled with Malaysian CPL/IR most of them of poor quality due to their poor training, ....not every new malaysian CPL/IR will join the first class airlines,.... on contrary a proper professional training will give you a definitive advantage and later on the possibility to get a larger choice: choice of Airlines, not only to be confined to Malaysia....
Check thoroughly GGFIA and the other Malaysian schools, a Website can be an impressive construction of a IT specialist far from the real world.... Internet is the world of "Virtual".
I recommand to check particularly:
-Ratio of students per Flight Instructor, (Overall - Students in the Ground School and in the Flying School-less than 6 students per one Flight Instructor)
-fleet (one aircraft = around 6/7 students per year MAXIMUM),
-maintenance (How many LAME -Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer) . The JAR/FAR states that some operations must be cross checked.... so a bare minimum of 2 LAME, how is done this maintenance? Are the students autorised to fill the technical log book? If the technical log book are fully empty.... it does not mean that the aircraft are correctly maintained, on contrary.... there is probably somewhere a secrete note book....
- Do your contract (Like Airline cadet) comprise an engagement on maximum duration of the training and financial penalties if not respected?
Good Luck
Last edited by Passenger 07; 25th Dec 2007 at 09:59.
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Similar discussion
Some of the schools were being discussed at length here:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165062
Cheers
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165062
Cheers
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Dig-Out
Originally Posted by cruisercruiser
Some of the schools were being discussed at length here:http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165062
Cheers
Cheers
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Originally Posted by ssangyongs
only consider GGIFA and APFT. MFA should be your last choice although it's my alma mater the mass exodus of experienced FI there, expect the low quality standard of training there....unlike years before....
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From Charibes to Scylla....
It is the Latin expression which is adequate for the current situation
Thornycactus: This Digging out must be updated... MFA is not the only one to be pointed out now... the situation presents some variations with the newcomings but the results are similar... far from what we can expect...
It is the Latin expression which is adequate for the current situation
Thornycactus: This Digging out must be updated... MFA is not the only one to be pointed out now... the situation presents some variations with the newcomings but the results are similar... far from what we can expect...
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How about HM Aerospace? Are they still in "chaos"?
BTW, Garuda is sending 20 of their cadets to HMA next February... I don't know why GA chose HMA where they are better flying schools around in the region...
JA
BTW, Garuda is sending 20 of their cadets to HMA next February... I don't know why GA chose HMA where they are better flying schools around in the region...
JA
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Originally Posted by Chrome
Kota Bahru is the best place for training now. You should seriously consider Kota Bahru or MFA. Err... forget MFA, just go Kota Bahru.
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Still Same
Originally Posted by SmileAirlines
How about HM Aerospace? Are they still in "chaos"?
There are instructors and students hiding in this forum. Wait till they tell you the truth.