An epileptic pilot could be flying in India??
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An epileptic pilot could be flying in India??
An epileptic pilot could be flying you
1 Nov 2007, 0414 hrs IST,Manju V ,TNN
MUMBAI: Desperate situations seem to call for desperate measures. Faced with an acute shortage of qualified pilots in the country, a low-cost airline based in north India has thrown caution to the winds and allowed two of its commanders to fly despite medical conditions that deem them unfit for the cockpit job.
The more blatant of the two cases is that of an Indian commander in his forties. He lost his Airline Transport Pilot’s Licence after failing an EEG (the test needed to verify if a person is prone to epileptic fits) but then claimed Rs 50 lakh as insurance money for loss of licence and then rejoined the airline with a fresh US licence.
"They do not have an EEG for a pilot's medical test in the US. He also probably did not mention his medical condition in the test there. What is shocking is that the airline, despite knowing that the pilot was prone to epileptic attacks, took him back," an airline official said.
"We will look into the matter. How can he fly in India if he failed medicals here?" said director-general of civil aviation Kanu Gohain.
The other case involves a 60-plus US citizen who has only one kidney; that, too, is borrowed. Medical practitioners say he can be deemed fit to fly but needs to go through tests before flying.
Aviation industry insiders say the growing demand for experienced pilots will only prompt airlines to be more lenient in such cases.
"After the retirement age was increased from 60 to 65 in 2004, retirements froze for a while as 60-plus commanders continued to fly. But there will be a spate of retirements in 2009. It's also the time when the country will need every single experienced commander it has," Capt Yashraj Tongia of Yash Air, a flying school in Ujjain, said.
The pilot who rejoined the airline armed with an American licence took advantage of one simple rule: aspiring pilots did not have to undergo an EEG test for clearing the medicals in the US.
Airline industry insiders admit it is a blatant case of bending the rules with impunity. "DGCA had cancelled his licence to fly because of his epileptic condition. But the airline recruited him again last month despite knowing his medical condition," an airline official said.
1 Nov 2007, 0414 hrs IST,Manju V ,TNN
MUMBAI: Desperate situations seem to call for desperate measures. Faced with an acute shortage of qualified pilots in the country, a low-cost airline based in north India has thrown caution to the winds and allowed two of its commanders to fly despite medical conditions that deem them unfit for the cockpit job.
The more blatant of the two cases is that of an Indian commander in his forties. He lost his Airline Transport Pilot’s Licence after failing an EEG (the test needed to verify if a person is prone to epileptic fits) but then claimed Rs 50 lakh as insurance money for loss of licence and then rejoined the airline with a fresh US licence.
"They do not have an EEG for a pilot's medical test in the US. He also probably did not mention his medical condition in the test there. What is shocking is that the airline, despite knowing that the pilot was prone to epileptic attacks, took him back," an airline official said.
"We will look into the matter. How can he fly in India if he failed medicals here?" said director-general of civil aviation Kanu Gohain.
The other case involves a 60-plus US citizen who has only one kidney; that, too, is borrowed. Medical practitioners say he can be deemed fit to fly but needs to go through tests before flying.
Aviation industry insiders say the growing demand for experienced pilots will only prompt airlines to be more lenient in such cases.
"After the retirement age was increased from 60 to 65 in 2004, retirements froze for a while as 60-plus commanders continued to fly. But there will be a spate of retirements in 2009. It's also the time when the country will need every single experienced commander it has," Capt Yashraj Tongia of Yash Air, a flying school in Ujjain, said.
The pilot who rejoined the airline armed with an American licence took advantage of one simple rule: aspiring pilots did not have to undergo an EEG test for clearing the medicals in the US.
Airline industry insiders admit it is a blatant case of bending the rules with impunity. "DGCA had cancelled his licence to fly because of his epileptic condition. But the airline recruited him again last month despite knowing his medical condition," an airline official said.
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Hmmm
Well, the pilot with the one kidney is easy. If he's abiding by the terms of his FAA Class 1 (special issuance, I assume) then his medical's valid and he's good to go. Now the DGCA may decide otherwise later, but right now they require only a valid FAA Class 1 to validate a US license.
The "epileptic" is another matter. Did he ever have a seizure? If so, and he didn't report it on the FAA form, his medical's invalid - and he's subject to prosecution (perjury) in the US (and probably in India too). If he never had a seizure, one wonders how definitive the test was. Since I'm certainly not a brain surgeon, I can't answer. I'm not an attorney, either, so I'm not certain if a "failed EEG" (whatever that may be) HAS to be reported as such to the FAA (except under the "visits to a medical professional in the last three years" section). If Oke City hears about it (I'll bet they will) they'll require a lot of additional tests at the very least. Only thing I'm sure of is that I'm really glad I'm not this fellow, for a lot of reasons. And I wonder what his insurance company thinks of this ...
And I should also note that he may have been completely up front with the FAA, brought in his test results, passed all required follow-up tests, and got his medical issued properly with the FAA concluding he was not an epileptic.
The "epileptic" is another matter. Did he ever have a seizure? If so, and he didn't report it on the FAA form, his medical's invalid - and he's subject to prosecution (perjury) in the US (and probably in India too). If he never had a seizure, one wonders how definitive the test was. Since I'm certainly not a brain surgeon, I can't answer. I'm not an attorney, either, so I'm not certain if a "failed EEG" (whatever that may be) HAS to be reported as such to the FAA (except under the "visits to a medical professional in the last three years" section). If Oke City hears about it (I'll bet they will) they'll require a lot of additional tests at the very least. Only thing I'm sure of is that I'm really glad I'm not this fellow, for a lot of reasons. And I wonder what his insurance company thinks of this ...
And I should also note that he may have been completely up front with the FAA, brought in his test results, passed all required follow-up tests, and got his medical issued properly with the FAA concluding he was not an epileptic.
Last edited by Rotorhead1026; 1st Nov 2007 at 14:22.
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Folks because this article specifically addresses me, I would like to clear the air on the issues.
Once again, it appears that an Ex Captain who was terminated from his previous employer is trying to stir the pot, by providing unfounded and totally truthless information to his favorite alarmist reporter.
Quotes from the article:
"Borrowed Kidney." Pretty funny, the donor saw this article this morning, and has said that I can keep the kidney, so it is not borrowed.
"He has lost both his kidneys, lives on a transplanted one, is more than 60 years old." Nope, I didn't lose both my kidneys, I did however lose the kidney function. Yes I live on a transplanted one. No, I have not reached the age of 60 yet. I out of 3 statements being true, pretty poor average.
"Moreover, the pilot also hid this fact, that he was living with a borrowed kidney from his medical examiners. This is evident from his medical certificate." Don't know how much further from the truth a statement could be. I was the FAA that lifted my Medical Certificate almost 4 years ago, because my kidney function dropped to unacceptable levels. I had the transplant, and the hoops and exams that I had to endure in order for the FAA to reissue my First Class Medical, far surpass any examination that Mr. Ranganathan has ever had to endure. So I truly resent the implication that I am not fit to fly. As for my Medical Certificate reflecting the fact that I hid those facts from the AME, who ever provided that information has no idea what they are talking about.
"But medical practioners feel the element of risk for passengers if a pilot lives on one borrowed kidney (there is that idiotic phase again) depends on the specific case.......But then this person should be medically checked for these factors before he can be deemed fit to fly." I am thoroughly examined by my Nephrologist every 90 days. I have absolutely no side effects from the immuno suppressants that I have to take. My blood pressure is well within acceptable values, and my kidney function if better than most people half my age.
One last item that needs to be addressed. Manju V and his buddy Ranganathan have eluded to an idea in previous articles that the reason the FAA does not allow commercial flying past 60 is due to medical concerns. That is totally incorrect. The age 60 rule in the US came about in 1959. CR Smith, then President of American Airlines and one of his military buddies who was he Chief of the then CAA came up with this number. American Airlines was about to embark into the Jet Age, and Mr. Smith did not want to have to pay his Senior Captains the kind of money they would get to fly the 707's. It was purely an economic move. So Manju, get your facts straight, due some investigation before you put something in print.
Lastly to Mr. Ranganathan. You need to crawl back under the rock from whence you came. You are a total disgrace to the Worldwide Aviation Community. Personally I think your fitness to fly should be in question. Anyone who keeps launching these attacks on what amounts to be the entire Aviation Industry of India, with no basis for fact, has to have their mental stability in question!!
Once again, it appears that an Ex Captain who was terminated from his previous employer is trying to stir the pot, by providing unfounded and totally truthless information to his favorite alarmist reporter.
Quotes from the article:
"Borrowed Kidney." Pretty funny, the donor saw this article this morning, and has said that I can keep the kidney, so it is not borrowed.
"He has lost both his kidneys, lives on a transplanted one, is more than 60 years old." Nope, I didn't lose both my kidneys, I did however lose the kidney function. Yes I live on a transplanted one. No, I have not reached the age of 60 yet. I out of 3 statements being true, pretty poor average.
"Moreover, the pilot also hid this fact, that he was living with a borrowed kidney from his medical examiners. This is evident from his medical certificate." Don't know how much further from the truth a statement could be. I was the FAA that lifted my Medical Certificate almost 4 years ago, because my kidney function dropped to unacceptable levels. I had the transplant, and the hoops and exams that I had to endure in order for the FAA to reissue my First Class Medical, far surpass any examination that Mr. Ranganathan has ever had to endure. So I truly resent the implication that I am not fit to fly. As for my Medical Certificate reflecting the fact that I hid those facts from the AME, who ever provided that information has no idea what they are talking about.
"But medical practioners feel the element of risk for passengers if a pilot lives on one borrowed kidney (there is that idiotic phase again) depends on the specific case.......But then this person should be medically checked for these factors before he can be deemed fit to fly." I am thoroughly examined by my Nephrologist every 90 days. I have absolutely no side effects from the immuno suppressants that I have to take. My blood pressure is well within acceptable values, and my kidney function if better than most people half my age.
One last item that needs to be addressed. Manju V and his buddy Ranganathan have eluded to an idea in previous articles that the reason the FAA does not allow commercial flying past 60 is due to medical concerns. That is totally incorrect. The age 60 rule in the US came about in 1959. CR Smith, then President of American Airlines and one of his military buddies who was he Chief of the then CAA came up with this number. American Airlines was about to embark into the Jet Age, and Mr. Smith did not want to have to pay his Senior Captains the kind of money they would get to fly the 707's. It was purely an economic move. So Manju, get your facts straight, due some investigation before you put something in print.
Lastly to Mr. Ranganathan. You need to crawl back under the rock from whence you came. You are a total disgrace to the Worldwide Aviation Community. Personally I think your fitness to fly should be in question. Anyone who keeps launching these attacks on what amounts to be the entire Aviation Industry of India, with no basis for fact, has to have their mental stability in question!!
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Now, now - calm down ... it was in the "news". I've had a few medical issues myself, which is why I found it interesting. I'm glad NGExpat is okay, and won't have to pay overdue library charges on his kidney. I assume the "epileptic" case was overhyped and distorted as well ...
Last edited by Rotorhead1026; 2nd Nov 2007 at 01:37.
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indian DGCA knows you
Mr ...so n so..
DGCA KNOWS EACH AND EVERY PILOT
this is one of the best DGCA.....OR ....CAA....OR FAAA...OR JAAAA.
and doing a good job.
i understand yor are not really close to ABC of safe aviation...which is very much intact so far with DGCA.
ARE you a flight dispacher?......or a doctor?.....scheduler?
may be you wont understand most of these.....good luck
try not to interfear pilots forum....
DGCA KNOWS EACH AND EVERY PILOT
this is one of the best DGCA.....OR ....CAA....OR FAAA...OR JAAAA.
and doing a good job.
i understand yor are not really close to ABC of safe aviation...which is very much intact so far with DGCA.
ARE you a flight dispacher?......or a doctor?.....scheduler?
may be you wont understand most of these.....good luck
try not to interfear pilots forum....
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My post was not in any way intended to invade anyone's privacy. It was simply a reprint of an article which was on the frontpage of yesterday's newspaper. There seem to be a lot of anti-expat articles of late and I was simply posting it for the benefit of prpuners. My sincere apologies to all parties if my actions were viewed differently. Especially to NGEXpat.
Last edited by Nevrekar; 2nd Nov 2007 at 02:14.
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The Truth About India
AIEXPATS, at least Nevrekar speak the truth about what happen in India like you speak about the tax that never been paid in this forum, this India what we are talking about a people full of trick and cheating
, as expat only between us we can exchange information.
, as expat only between us we can exchange information.
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Upset donor.....!
As the donor (and yes I am still very much alive), I am appalled by the unfounded facts printed printed in this publication.
This kidney was "lovingly" given, not leant nor borrowed (I do not want it back)! And, actually, he is in better health than 99% of the world because he has 3 kidneys! True, 2 of them don't function as well as they should, which is where the 3rd one kicks in but non-the-less is better than most.
Here in the United States we do not view a 60 year old as worthless, but rather value their skills, knowledge, experience and life!
Gee, I guess, if India euphenized everyone over the age of 60 (which evidently Indians never attain) then India would not need any assistance is joining the 21st century.
Last but not least, the commander of these Indian airlines earned the title of "Captain"!
P.S. - Nevrekar we have no problem with your posts.
Signed: The loving wife and kidney donor
This kidney was "lovingly" given, not leant nor borrowed (I do not want it back)! And, actually, he is in better health than 99% of the world because he has 3 kidneys! True, 2 of them don't function as well as they should, which is where the 3rd one kicks in but non-the-less is better than most.
Here in the United States we do not view a 60 year old as worthless, but rather value their skills, knowledge, experience and life!
Gee, I guess, if India euphenized everyone over the age of 60 (which evidently Indians never attain) then India would not need any assistance is joining the 21st century.
Last but not least, the commander of these Indian airlines earned the title of "Captain"!
P.S. - Nevrekar we have no problem with your posts.
Signed: The loving wife and kidney donor
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Well ... agreed on the comments about sixty-somethings in the US, as far as the general population goes. I just wish it applied to airline pilots. Maybe it will, eventually.
When I think of "the ties that bind", body parts don't normally come to mind ... but whatever works, works. I'm glad it worked out for both of you. Continued good luck ...
When I think of "the ties that bind", body parts don't normally come to mind ... but whatever works, works. I'm glad it worked out for both of you. Continued good luck ...
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Nevrekar you are right ,hunt those newspapers down with a lawsuit . Can you all imagine the trouble that can be caused by articles like these to a pilot ? Life is difficult enough already without this "rubbish".
Fellow pilots have to support each other ,regardless , and I can only applaud that NGexpat is fit and in good health .
Happy landings to all of you
Fellow pilots have to support each other ,regardless , and I can only applaud that NGexpat is fit and in good health .
Happy landings to all of you
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Speed210, let me clarify something: AIEXPATS is a name used by several expats, across aircraft types and nationalities. For instance, while I did not write a word concerning the tax issue, I did express my opinion on medical privacy and again, medical issues are a confidential topic between the patient and his/her physician; in the case of aviatiors, between the governing/regulatory body and the flight crewmember. It seems to me it is their business, not yours, not mine, not Nev's not the journos'. A general topic of health is in my view ok, but referring to a specific case is not; it is already a shame that to fill newspaper or magazine pages, some editors throw ethics out the window.
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Great Thread!
As an expat pilot living and working in India, and a physician (kept the license, no long practising obviously) I read the referenced article this moring in Times of India and just smiled and turned the page. Sometimes it seems that India is just one big game of "gotcha". Bollywood stars and expat pilots are favorite targets. Shame on this reporter Manju V. who keeps writing crap, half-truth's and lies. But don't fool yourself into believing that anything will change. He'll continue to get all his info from sources that have other agendas like ATC, SWIP, and disgruntled expats themselves.
The Indian aviation boom is a great opportunity for the 600 or so of us that are over here. Some are grateful, some just complain. That's life, and it's largely the same at American or Delta.
I especially liked what Rotorhead had to say. He brought out the exact same questions raised in my mind as I read the article. I'm not a brain surgeon either, but i can tell you that if the man never had a seizure, then to disqualify him based on somerhing someone saw on an EEG would be nefarious at best, incompetence at worst. It would also be exactly the kind of thing that happens over here.
Gotta take the bad with the good, and never throw out the baby with the bathwater!
The Indian aviation boom is a great opportunity for the 600 or so of us that are over here. Some are grateful, some just complain. That's life, and it's largely the same at American or Delta.
I especially liked what Rotorhead had to say. He brought out the exact same questions raised in my mind as I read the article. I'm not a brain surgeon either, but i can tell you that if the man never had a seizure, then to disqualify him based on somerhing someone saw on an EEG would be nefarious at best, incompetence at worst. It would also be exactly the kind of thing that happens over here.
Gotta take the bad with the good, and never throw out the baby with the bathwater!
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It's amazing that the same story in his hometown was covered by the media as a positive inspirational topic while the same issue can be viewed with such negativity by the Indian media.
It's time the Indian media took their blinders off and begin reporting relevant and accurate articles about aviation. All these clippings of high drama go arounds, over exaggeration of pilot shortages and and hell will break lose expat hiring is not helping or portraying the industry in a favourable light. Someone needs to put a stop to this ignorance and xenophobia.
They need to realise that aviation is now integral part of India'a economy and not a rich man's toy. Such irresponsibility only exposes the immaturity and lack of knowledge of journalists. Maybe a defamation lawsuit will shake this journo off his little non accountable pedestal.
I wish NG Expat all the best and hope to fly with you soon and personally discuss this journalistic hissy fit.
It's time the Indian media took their blinders off and begin reporting relevant and accurate articles about aviation. All these clippings of high drama go arounds, over exaggeration of pilot shortages and and hell will break lose expat hiring is not helping or portraying the industry in a favourable light. Someone needs to put a stop to this ignorance and xenophobia.
They need to realise that aviation is now integral part of India'a economy and not a rich man's toy. Such irresponsibility only exposes the immaturity and lack of knowledge of journalists. Maybe a defamation lawsuit will shake this journo off his little non accountable pedestal.
I wish NG Expat all the best and hope to fly with you soon and personally discuss this journalistic hissy fit.
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sadistic
so understand you are also not a reporter from media press.
its very rare to come across sadistic people living on this globe and looking in to others plate, you are one identified your self.
very soon indian medical board will start phycometry tests
wish good luck to you nervekar.
its very rare to come across sadistic people living on this globe and looking in to others plate, you are one identified your self.
very soon indian medical board will start phycometry tests
wish good luck to you nervekar.
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TOI article
I was equally unhappy reading the atcle,it just shows poor unity within the community.As far as i know ,there ain't an epileptic pilot.It apparently refers to one of my friends who had a cancer problem and i ,for one, am very glad to see him flying as a capt.A leak from some one within(???) has put the cat among the pigeons.that pilot has been cleared by FAA/Canada/Australia/NZ.
Anand Nevrekar has just done his job of keeping the community(expats) informed of the articles in the Indian media. And Im sure he has no mal intent.
The DGCA has asked and obtained necessary clearances about the pilot including his statements to medical authorities everywhere. I understand there has been no effort on his part to hide information, and as a good old soldier he stated his facts fairly clearly.
Sensationalising does help such issues but since public memory is short, I do hope it will be filed away. What the Indian pilots would like is similar medical standards like the FAA has for those above 60. This is by far the most important point as Indian pilots are made to undergo extensive medical examinations once they cross 55 and it increases once they cross 60. If this sensational journalism helps in standardising medical examination stds then it has served its purpose, otherwise its pure yellow dirty stuff.
Anand Nevrekar has just done his job of keeping the community(expats) informed of the articles in the Indian media. And Im sure he has no mal intent.
The DGCA has asked and obtained necessary clearances about the pilot including his statements to medical authorities everywhere. I understand there has been no effort on his part to hide information, and as a good old soldier he stated his facts fairly clearly.
Sensationalising does help such issues but since public memory is short, I do hope it will be filed away. What the Indian pilots would like is similar medical standards like the FAA has for those above 60. This is by far the most important point as Indian pilots are made to undergo extensive medical examinations once they cross 55 and it increases once they cross 60. If this sensational journalism helps in standardising medical examination stds then it has served its purpose, otherwise its pure yellow dirty stuff.