Pilot Shortage? - Really !!
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In Europe, since 20 years at least, the situation is what you are beginning to experience: a lot of CPL/IR with Frozen ATPL but only a certain percentage will be recruited by Airlines.
The Airlines Pilot job cannot be reduced to General Handling only: this is only one aspect....
The Airlines Pilot job cannot be reduced to General Handling only: this is only one aspect....
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Gentlemen
whats really disturbing is the attitude of some of these fellows walking around with 300 or so hour with a barely saisfactory IFR. I have seen some of these kids talk and from what i gather is ignorane that they are capable of handeling a big jet . I hear a lot of talk but can't help it wonder if they're ever put in a situation that requires them to manipulate as the sole pilot in a safe manner ....oohhhh.... just thinking about it gives me the chills
safe flying
whats really disturbing is the attitude of some of these fellows walking around with 300 or so hour with a barely saisfactory IFR. I have seen some of these kids talk and from what i gather is ignorane that they are capable of handeling a big jet . I hear a lot of talk but can't help it wonder if they're ever put in a situation that requires them to manipulate as the sole pilot in a safe manner ....oohhhh.... just thinking about it gives me the chills
safe flying
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It's like they have this sense of entitlement. 'I have my Commercial now..... where's my big shiny jet?'
It's amazing that kids don't want to get on the ATR cos it's a turboprop. It has to be a Boeing or an Airbus.
These guys should get a taste of what guys in other parts of the world experience... a year or two on the ramp b4 a sniff at the right seat of a Twotter or Navajo.
On the flip side, market conditions are such that airlines have no other choice but to recruit these 200 hr wonders (which is changing). You seriously cannot expect these guys to be able to negotiate a high performance glass jet.
A lot of the blame goes on the training both at the basic level and type rating level. IR training in India is practically nil. And it is evident once they get in the cockpit. However, these guys will give you run for your money when it comes to systems knowledge and procedures.... because that's what the training focuses on. Flying skills will come. It's like an arranged marriage, love will come!!
But you are right, if one of them had to do it all by themselves, it would not be a pretty scenario.
Capt. Roo,
Agreed, but isn't that what forecasters and planners are there for? They should have anticipated this explosive growth and acted accordingly.
There is a glaring example of the lack of foresight in BLR right now. Even as the new airport is being constructed with one runway airlines and analysts are saying that it won't suffice. The way Bangalore and along with it air traffic is growing this brand new airport will fail to meet the needs of the present let alone the future. Apart from that developers are already facing road connectivity issues.
With KF planning to use BLR as their hub for international ops and other airlines starting or increasing frequency to this city it's only going to get worse.
This is just one of the many things, minor and major, that need to be addressed to even try and catch up with the current infrastructural demands.
It's amazing that kids don't want to get on the ATR cos it's a turboprop. It has to be a Boeing or an Airbus.
These guys should get a taste of what guys in other parts of the world experience... a year or two on the ramp b4 a sniff at the right seat of a Twotter or Navajo.
On the flip side, market conditions are such that airlines have no other choice but to recruit these 200 hr wonders (which is changing). You seriously cannot expect these guys to be able to negotiate a high performance glass jet.
A lot of the blame goes on the training both at the basic level and type rating level. IR training in India is practically nil. And it is evident once they get in the cockpit. However, these guys will give you run for your money when it comes to systems knowledge and procedures.... because that's what the training focuses on. Flying skills will come. It's like an arranged marriage, love will come!!
But you are right, if one of them had to do it all by themselves, it would not be a pretty scenario.
Capt. Roo,
Agreed, but isn't that what forecasters and planners are there for? They should have anticipated this explosive growth and acted accordingly.
There is a glaring example of the lack of foresight in BLR right now. Even as the new airport is being constructed with one runway airlines and analysts are saying that it won't suffice. The way Bangalore and along with it air traffic is growing this brand new airport will fail to meet the needs of the present let alone the future. Apart from that developers are already facing road connectivity issues.
With KF planning to use BLR as their hub for international ops and other airlines starting or increasing frequency to this city it's only going to get worse.
This is just one of the many things, minor and major, that need to be addressed to even try and catch up with the current infrastructural demands.
Last edited by av8r76; 3rd Nov 2007 at 18:27. Reason: Not done yet!!!!
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Pax 07, you've figured me out. I've never been accused of being too complex
AV8R, I think you've hit an important point. There seems to be a huge expectation of entitlement with newly crowned CPL pilots. It's not good enough to be an instructor or fly a turboprop, but a belief that they deserve a big, shiny jet right out of the gate.
It blows me away to think that the kid in the right seat of a 737 or an RJ has got 5 hours of multi-engine experience. That trend needs to stop.
AV8R, I think you've hit an important point. There seems to be a huge expectation of entitlement with newly crowned CPL pilots. It's not good enough to be an instructor or fly a turboprop, but a belief that they deserve a big, shiny jet right out of the gate.
It blows me away to think that the kid in the right seat of a 737 or an RJ has got 5 hours of multi-engine experience. That trend needs to stop.
gist
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El Lobo Solo: Sorry to have hurt you. I think we are in the same mood about what is happening.
Now a personal story:
I am an old experienced man and when I begin to fly (in the 60s), a lot of World War II experienced pilots in my Airlines has to convert from conventional to jet because the fleet was upgraded. It appeared than 30% of those experienced pilots were not suitable for flying jets.
This can demonstrate that all the new CPL/IR are not automatically suitable for flying a jet (Nowadays more sophisticated than in the 60s).
Selection has to be done and preferably before starting the training. Private students should verify their aptitude in order to avoid to spoil their time and money
Now a personal story:
I am an old experienced man and when I begin to fly (in the 60s), a lot of World War II experienced pilots in my Airlines has to convert from conventional to jet because the fleet was upgraded. It appeared than 30% of those experienced pilots were not suitable for flying jets.
This can demonstrate that all the new CPL/IR are not automatically suitable for flying a jet (Nowadays more sophisticated than in the 60s).
Selection has to be done and preferably before starting the training. Private students should verify their aptitude in order to avoid to spoil their time and money
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I see the point but I am talking about all those instructors with THOUSAND of hours of experience, that in most cases have been training cadets for the same airlines.
One example over all is the situation in China: Chinese F/O with 200hrs total, but no space for the same experienced flight instructors that trained them. I have been there, but when I applied to the Chinese airlines I got the same answer from most of them: "we take our own cadets, so we are sure of what kind of training they have gone through"
I know it too! ...I have trained them!
One example over all is the situation in China: Chinese F/O with 200hrs total, but no space for the same experienced flight instructors that trained them. I have been there, but when I applied to the Chinese airlines I got the same answer from most of them: "we take our own cadets, so we are sure of what kind of training they have gone through"
I know it too! ...I have trained them!
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Shortage everywhere
Pilot shortage also in Australia
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-shortage.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-shortage.html
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Hi
hey guys,
i am one of these 300 hour F/O's and when i look around i do see all the clowns being talked about here,5 hr multi,no understanding of Instrument Flying etc etc.
And i also agree that 300 hours on a single/multi arent enough to transition on to a big jet.
But there are a few of us who got our ratings right,love flying, keep our heads down,try to learn from our seniors as fast as possible and then emulate them to be as proficient fliers as we can.
I just wanted to put in a vote for us guys here who think the same of these schmucks!!
i am one of these 300 hour F/O's and when i look around i do see all the clowns being talked about here,5 hr multi,no understanding of Instrument Flying etc etc.
And i also agree that 300 hours on a single/multi arent enough to transition on to a big jet.
But there are a few of us who got our ratings right,love flying, keep our heads down,try to learn from our seniors as fast as possible and then emulate them to be as proficient fliers as we can.
I just wanted to put in a vote for us guys here who think the same of these schmucks!!
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Indeed, most of the youngsters I fly with are okay. Maybe the skills aren't there yet, but they know this and try to learn. Unfortunately, it's the schmucks that stand out - and it's so much fun to talk about them!
BTW, "youngster" is forty or younger.
BTW, "youngster" is forty or younger.
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Thanks for the encouragement
Gee guys, thanks for the encouragement!!
As far as I know, no profession has a perfect demand - supply balance. If it was so, life would be a breeze.
As for the input of 6000 or so new 'pilots', won't time tell? I am sure wheat will be seperated from the chaff. Like in any other discipline, the ones with the drive, the tenacity and the aptitude will make it through while others will drop out. Who said it would be easy?
Yes, the question of safety does arise, but the fact remains most of the useless lot will not make it to a responsible position. This does not negate the risj entirely, but hey, don't you risk an accident everytime you get on to the road (Especially here, in Africa)? A poor corollary, but true nevertheless.
My point in harping on like this is, if you can not motivate, don't f*** it up as well. Information can be provided in an unbiased way, without reflecting one's personal prejudices. A young chap from India reading the first post in this thread would probably be thrown into a quandry. Yes, if it is so, he should not be in aviation. But when cost vis-a-vis returns is compared that way, it is enough to give anyone the chills. Let's not forget, 67% of all statistics are made up.
Blue skies.
As far as I know, no profession has a perfect demand - supply balance. If it was so, life would be a breeze.
As for the input of 6000 or so new 'pilots', won't time tell? I am sure wheat will be seperated from the chaff. Like in any other discipline, the ones with the drive, the tenacity and the aptitude will make it through while others will drop out. Who said it would be easy?
Yes, the question of safety does arise, but the fact remains most of the useless lot will not make it to a responsible position. This does not negate the risj entirely, but hey, don't you risk an accident everytime you get on to the road (Especially here, in Africa)? A poor corollary, but true nevertheless.
My point in harping on like this is, if you can not motivate, don't f*** it up as well. Information can be provided in an unbiased way, without reflecting one's personal prejudices. A young chap from India reading the first post in this thread would probably be thrown into a quandry. Yes, if it is so, he should not be in aviation. But when cost vis-a-vis returns is compared that way, it is enough to give anyone the chills. Let's not forget, 67% of all statistics are made up.
Blue skies.
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Amongst scores of news clippings about the great shortage of flight crew we encounter a contradictory article and it smacks of prejudice?
Lets keep both sides free of prejudice shall we? If you think the abundance of jobs articles are unbiased then you have blinders on.No one seems to shift in their chairs or get all flustered about excess demand for pilots but one.... just one article and everybody is freaking out.
Nobody is trying to f*** it up or demotivate anybody here. Amidst all the hoopla there has to be a balanced point of view. Take it for what it's worth and try to read between the lines of BOTH sides. Too much at stake for a lot of diverse stakeholders and right now as far as volume of clippings goes, it looks like there are plenty of jobs out there. Let's hear from the guys who are actually knocking on doors right at this moment and filter out what's biased and unbiased.
Lets keep both sides free of prejudice shall we? If you think the abundance of jobs articles are unbiased then you have blinders on.No one seems to shift in their chairs or get all flustered about excess demand for pilots but one.... just one article and everybody is freaking out.
Nobody is trying to f*** it up or demotivate anybody here. Amidst all the hoopla there has to be a balanced point of view. Take it for what it's worth and try to read between the lines of BOTH sides. Too much at stake for a lot of diverse stakeholders and right now as far as volume of clippings goes, it looks like there are plenty of jobs out there. Let's hear from the guys who are actually knocking on doors right at this moment and filter out what's biased and unbiased.
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Is it unmotivating to have someone tell a 300 hour pilot to go look for a CFI position and learn some important skills rather than scour the world for a wide-body job? The shiny jet syndrome trend has gotten out of hand. I've grown tired of reading how a commercial license is the ticket to a boeing or bus. 
Grey Skies
Grey Skies
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With a double dip forthcoming and increased collateral damage on India, dream on. It's sad but a lot of training schools in a lot of countries made a lot of money off the backs of a lot duped kids.