Get an Indian CPL without actually flying!!! Incredible...!!!
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I will start this off by saying these are my observations only, and are only that. I have been flying for over 30 years. I have never flown for a living as a pilot. I have my CFI and have instructed friends, children of friends and given BFR’s to friends. I do not instruct to make money; I have a real full time job were you get paid a professional wage. I do own a C172K and a C310. There are a large number of Chinese and Indian students where I base my aircraft. Of course word gets a round and students ask to go flying with me because they know we can both log the time (especially in the C310). Some of the guys are really nice and it is hard to say no when I am just going to go burn gas anyway. Both my C172/U and C310/A are basic airplanes. I do not even own a GPS. I believe in flight planning, cross checking VOR’s, pilotage and can use an E6-B. There is a big disparity in the ability of these pilots. I have run into a select few that are actually very competent and have an understanding of aerodynamics and aircraft operation. They have actually taken the time to become educated. Most others are totally lost and if things don’t go by the script they will probably soon have a bad day. It all comes back to the student’s motivation and training. If they are becoming pilots because some relative has the money to pay for their training and have no real interest in being a pilot other than being called captain you are in for trouble. If they are working illegally on the side to scrape by to get their training they are usually much better. Flying is skill that you must want to acquire and must be passionate about at least at the beginning. I have personally flown with some of these pilots (well they have a license) that could not even follow a checklist on the ground. Once in the air it only got worse. A few others were very honest and humble about not understanding a 1956 C310 after only training in a Garmin 1000 C172 and newer Seminole. Dependence on advanced avionics is a big problem in my opinion. I have nothing against GPS, FMS, flight directors, etc. But when the standbys are all basic steam gauges and if you can not navigate to a VOR on them there is a problem. Not helping the situation is all of the schools are looking for a profit, in my opinion they don’t really care if the student is proficient as long as they get their buck and he/she leaves the county after he/she is done. The MPL schools will probably even make the situation worse unless they are closely monitored. Like I said only my opinion and observations.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: downtown dustbowl
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Bulls eye slatch. It all comes down to motivation and desire.
Unlike the western world a lot of these kids get their licenses through the financing of relatives. In a country where graduation is a must to secure even a half decent job these guys finish high school and see a CPL as a ticket to financial salvation. The ONLY motive for them is the relatively higher renumeration package compared to a whole many jobs in India.
I have first hand experience in this because my sim partner's only motivation to complete his CPL course was his daddy's promise of a brand new luxury sedan ( well... by Indian standards anyway). This was self evident on a manual VOR procedure turn at a 65 degree bank with a bank angle warning on a procedure turn on the route check in the sim.
People like these don't have any motivation and desire to learn the art and science of flying and see it just as a job.
So that's that. There are some people who just don't care enough to learn and are career first officers. All of you criticising the local crew in India are right but you can't say that ALL of them are of the same ilk. There are guys who have a passion and great aptitude for flying and want to soak up everything they hear, see and experience. I have flown with piss poor expat captains and absolutely fantastic local captains and vice versa. So the flip side is just as disheartening.
You are here to do a job... the cards have been dealt and are on the table for all to see. Nobody forced you to come here. Bitching about it is not gonna change the situation. Tolerate the bad guys and PLEASE teach the guys who want to learn all that you know.
Unlike the western world a lot of these kids get their licenses through the financing of relatives. In a country where graduation is a must to secure even a half decent job these guys finish high school and see a CPL as a ticket to financial salvation. The ONLY motive for them is the relatively higher renumeration package compared to a whole many jobs in India.
I have first hand experience in this because my sim partner's only motivation to complete his CPL course was his daddy's promise of a brand new luxury sedan ( well... by Indian standards anyway). This was self evident on a manual VOR procedure turn at a 65 degree bank with a bank angle warning on a procedure turn on the route check in the sim.
People like these don't have any motivation and desire to learn the art and science of flying and see it just as a job.
So that's that. There are some people who just don't care enough to learn and are career first officers. All of you criticising the local crew in India are right but you can't say that ALL of them are of the same ilk. There are guys who have a passion and great aptitude for flying and want to soak up everything they hear, see and experience. I have flown with piss poor expat captains and absolutely fantastic local captains and vice versa. So the flip side is just as disheartening.
You are here to do a job... the cards have been dealt and are on the table for all to see. Nobody forced you to come here. Bitching about it is not gonna change the situation. Tolerate the bad guys and PLEASE teach the guys who want to learn all that you know.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Captains and Standards
Title of Capain.......With the advent of aviation, The title Captain was appended to any qualified Pilot who has done his solo. Those days, like a Ship's Captain, The pilot shouldered full responsibility and deserved every syllable of the word Captain. Over the period of years , noone has changed the requirements for the appendage of the Title Captain. It became indicative of a qualified Pilot as against a trainee pilot.Hence, even today, technically, they are within their rights to be called Captains.But, We only wish that they live up to the dignity and decorum of that title.
Similarly,whether it is a 250 hr CPL or 65 year old Airline Examiner...Both are entitled to be called as Captain due to usage of the title basically from when it started denoting one's line of duty.
As a matter of fact, if you look at the Rank structure of Indian Air Force or Royal Airforce etc, in the officer cadre the first rank you hold is "Pilot Officer"
It is just a rank, thats all. Because a Pilot Officer may not be a pilot at all. He might be a Accounts Officer, Met Officer,Doctor, Logistics Officer,Education Officer, Technical Officer , Security Officer etc etc.
Like that in civil also, the word Captain is appended to any qualified pilot who has soloed. So what name they are called by is not the issue but whether they behave themselves with the dignity and decorum the title demands is the question here.......And that will come only by maturity.
I am calling my CPL students, "Captain", trying to instill in them the the due respect I give to that title so that they understand the import of such a title.I hope they come out as matured Captains.
It is not the name but how one behaves that matters.
Regarding the quality of the RHS occupants................The situation is of deep concern to all and sundry, it is agreed . But it is similar to all other walks of life too. There are so many Doctors and engineers too who call themselves by their professional title but might not be fully up to the standard required. Circumstances aka aviaion boom, has brought about this state of affairs and only the airlines involved, their senior Captains and the pilots themselves can bring about a change. Purely for this purpose, in a welcome step,KFa has been sending their abinitio pilots even after recruitment to training institutions like mine. However as mentioned by a few earlier, training can only be to improve the professional standards. But, the mental maturity must come from within ones inner self and more importantly. forums like these play an integral and important part in bringing about that maturity in pilots' minds
captbala
Similarly,whether it is a 250 hr CPL or 65 year old Airline Examiner...Both are entitled to be called as Captain due to usage of the title basically from when it started denoting one's line of duty.
As a matter of fact, if you look at the Rank structure of Indian Air Force or Royal Airforce etc, in the officer cadre the first rank you hold is "Pilot Officer"
It is just a rank, thats all. Because a Pilot Officer may not be a pilot at all. He might be a Accounts Officer, Met Officer,Doctor, Logistics Officer,Education Officer, Technical Officer , Security Officer etc etc.
Like that in civil also, the word Captain is appended to any qualified pilot who has soloed. So what name they are called by is not the issue but whether they behave themselves with the dignity and decorum the title demands is the question here.......And that will come only by maturity.
I am calling my CPL students, "Captain", trying to instill in them the the due respect I give to that title so that they understand the import of such a title.I hope they come out as matured Captains.
It is not the name but how one behaves that matters.
Regarding the quality of the RHS occupants................The situation is of deep concern to all and sundry, it is agreed . But it is similar to all other walks of life too. There are so many Doctors and engineers too who call themselves by their professional title but might not be fully up to the standard required. Circumstances aka aviaion boom, has brought about this state of affairs and only the airlines involved, their senior Captains and the pilots themselves can bring about a change. Purely for this purpose, in a welcome step,KFa has been sending their abinitio pilots even after recruitment to training institutions like mine. However as mentioned by a few earlier, training can only be to improve the professional standards. But, the mental maturity must come from within ones inner self and more importantly. forums like these play an integral and important part in bringing about that maturity in pilots' minds
captbala
