Indian Conversion
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hpcock ,
This is exactly what i meant when i wrote 'No one is doing anything about it' in my initial post's . Although i guess i wasn't clear enough .
But getting back ; i am curious if there isn't any Airline pilot's association who could represent the complete lot of the hard working folks out there and forward a note to ICAO ? (The association could also talk to DGCA to help make things better). Cause it seems like a rapidly growing market and with buying privileges thing hapenning , i am not sure how far it would go .
Just a thought .
I certainly agree with you and include me in your minority group .
Cheers !
This is exactly what i meant when i wrote 'No one is doing anything about it' in my initial post's . Although i guess i wasn't clear enough .
But getting back ; i am curious if there isn't any Airline pilot's association who could represent the complete lot of the hard working folks out there and forward a note to ICAO ? (The association could also talk to DGCA to help make things better). Cause it seems like a rapidly growing market and with buying privileges thing hapenning , i am not sure how far it would go .
Just a thought .
I certainly agree with you and include me in your minority group .
Cheers !
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what i said about was conversion. u need to get ur papers done.
there is no short cut sadly [:P]
and the dude who said we are giving indian pilots a bad name and ****... have u really used all that ****ty info in your flying? are u ever bothered about apparent wander in your gyro.. and all that ****! dgca sylabus is absolute bull ****...
there is no short cut sadly [:P]
and the dude who said we are giving indian pilots a bad name and ****... have u really used all that ****ty info in your flying? are u ever bothered about apparent wander in your gyro.. and all that ****! dgca sylabus is absolute bull ****...
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and the dude who said we are giving indian pilots a bad name and ****... have u really used all that ****ty info in your flying? are u ever bothered about apparent wander in your gyro.. and all that ****! dgca sylabus is absolute bull ****...
i dont know what ur back ground is but dont blame the DGCA syllabus.there are so any things we learn that we never use later on.But to get that degree/diploma/license we have to learn it.either put up with it or just quit.But then again it all depends on how much u want it badly.This is not limited to pilots but all other professions.
And one more thing when u use the word s**t and the likes please dont be so explicit.It doesnt look nice.
cheers.
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hi...
this just gets more interesting.....
vinayak - knowledge is never wasted... dont u just want to know (maybe just for the heck of it) how things are working?? or is a lazy 8 ample...
the rogue candidates and the dgca are both to blame, and as has been said the airlines know who the bad apples are. but it should not have to come to the airlines dealing with. thats what the authorities should be there for.
I was forwarded a letter that was written to the dgca and various ministries in 2002 regarding the corruptions of the exam cell but of course we see no changes. I would subscribe to the idea of gathering some 'cojones' and forwarding info to ICAO cause it is all plain simple WRONG.
is there any pilots assosciation in india?
this just gets more interesting.....
vinayak - knowledge is never wasted... dont u just want to know (maybe just for the heck of it) how things are working?? or is a lazy 8 ample...
the rogue candidates and the dgca are both to blame, and as has been said the airlines know who the bad apples are. but it should not have to come to the airlines dealing with. thats what the authorities should be there for.
I was forwarded a letter that was written to the dgca and various ministries in 2002 regarding the corruptions of the exam cell but of course we see no changes. I would subscribe to the idea of gathering some 'cojones' and forwarding info to ICAO cause it is all plain simple WRONG.
is there any pilots assosciation in india?
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HP
that was well put . I wish more of us can get a lobby together and get a message across to DGCA . I have never in my life failed an exam till I wrote the DGCA ones ...i was horryfied...anyhow ...I am done with this dgca **** and joining as a foriegn FO. I wanna get flying ...I keep hearing that there is gonna be a time when the ICAo will be converted to Indian ...but lets wait and see
Regards
that was well put . I wish more of us can get a lobby together and get a message across to DGCA . I have never in my life failed an exam till I wrote the DGCA ones ...i was horryfied...anyhow ...I am done with this dgca **** and joining as a foriegn FO. I wanna get flying ...I keep hearing that there is gonna be a time when the ICAo will be converted to Indian ...but lets wait and see
Regards
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Dgca exams...well well. It is an interesting experience. The reason for so many failures? The answer is quite simple : No proper syllabus. Atleast that was the case till last year when I did my conversion exams. Now they have a section in the dgca website, but its still useless in my opinion.
To all the guys doing their conversion papers: my only suggestion would be to study Ground studies for pilots (all volumes). You should pretty much read it cover to cover 5 times and the exam will be a cake walk. First time around, for my composite, I was misinformed and read up on Duggal's nav and met notes alone(Duggal is one of the big shot ground school instructor in India...I didnt attend his classes but just studied his notes). Flunked it, but again by 3%...happens all the time with DGCA exams
. Air regs was pretty easy though, duggal's the man for airlaw
Second time around, it was Ground studies for pilots(GSP) for me. I would say the composite paper is 35% nav 35 % Radio aids and the remaining 30% for met, flight planning and instruments. CLeared the paper quite easily, and got 87%. Even though it is hard preparing out of GSP, and more so if you are working(I was working as a flight instructor and those months preparing for the exam was hell), you should clear the composite paper easily. Air regs, as mentioned earlier is easy to clear with Duggal notes.
But the problems dont end there, for once I quit my job and got back to India, I had to run around for converting my RT, and honestly, Sanchar Bhavan is a
up place. Apart from that getting a date for my class 1 medical was a big headache. And finally I have been waiting close to 2 months now to get my flight tests done. Initially my Instrument time lapsed(luckily, the flying club where I went to had a sim and it was not a big issue) and now my night time will lapse if I dont submit my form by the 20th of July, which gives me about 48 hours to do the flight test and submit my application on time.
So gentlemen, its not the DGCA alone, its the whole system. Flying schools, Sanchar Bhavan, class 1 med centres.
I have started chain smoking
CHeers
Divdby0
To all the guys doing their conversion papers: my only suggestion would be to study Ground studies for pilots (all volumes). You should pretty much read it cover to cover 5 times and the exam will be a cake walk. First time around, for my composite, I was misinformed and read up on Duggal's nav and met notes alone(Duggal is one of the big shot ground school instructor in India...I didnt attend his classes but just studied his notes). Flunked it, but again by 3%...happens all the time with DGCA exams
. Air regs was pretty easy though, duggal's the man for airlawSecond time around, it was Ground studies for pilots(GSP) for me. I would say the composite paper is 35% nav 35 % Radio aids and the remaining 30% for met, flight planning and instruments. CLeared the paper quite easily, and got 87%. Even though it is hard preparing out of GSP, and more so if you are working(I was working as a flight instructor and those months preparing for the exam was hell), you should clear the composite paper easily. Air regs, as mentioned earlier is easy to clear with Duggal notes.
But the problems dont end there, for once I quit my job and got back to India, I had to run around for converting my RT, and honestly, Sanchar Bhavan is a
up place. Apart from that getting a date for my class 1 medical was a big headache. And finally I have been waiting close to 2 months now to get my flight tests done. Initially my Instrument time lapsed(luckily, the flying club where I went to had a sim and it was not a big issue) and now my night time will lapse if I dont submit my form by the 20th of July, which gives me about 48 hours to do the flight test and submit my application on time. So gentlemen, its not the DGCA alone, its the whole system. Flying schools, Sanchar Bhavan, class 1 med centres.
I have started chain smoking
CHeers
Divdby0
Last edited by divdby0; 16th Jul 2007 at 19:23.
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Hey Div
I have done that entire route and run into a brick wall. thank god that i am of indian origin and a citizen from canada...so my friend i have given up on the idea of getting the indian licence and will just fly on my canadian as an FO ....I hope that there are no glitches in this process....
regards
I have done that entire route and run into a brick wall. thank god that i am of indian origin and a citizen from canada...so my friend i have given up on the idea of getting the indian licence and will just fly on my canadian as an FO ....I hope that there are no glitches in this process....
regards
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composite paper breakup
As requested by cowboy, below is the breakup on the composite paper.
1. Navigation :
a. every composite paper starts off with two numericals : one on cp and the other on pnr. The two types of qns I have come across are multiple leg cp/pnr's and cp/pnr with variable winds. Multiple leg examples can be found in GSP flight planning volumes chp 1 under PEF(point of equal fuel) and PSR(point of safe return). Variable wind examples can be found in GSP navigation. Both these questions carry 4 marks each, so thats a good 8% of the 70% pass mark required.
b. Questions on Great circle/Rhumb line tracks from A to B and B to A. Its better to work out all the questions in the GSP exercise section for this one. Different examples are Distance between two lats given, which can be used to find onvergency and hence GC r/l tracks, same latitude questions which is slightly different from the way you approach the solution for diff lats. usually between qns 10-18 and carries 2 marks.
c. One qn. on LMT to GMT conversion and vice versa. Carries 2 marks. (GSP nav)
d. couple of qns on air and ground distance with either 2/1 mark. (GSP nav)
e. One question on aircraft magnetism, usually finding deviation based on a b c coordinates 3 marks (Aircraft magnetism GSP Nav)
f. Finding scale at equator or a particular latitude for mercator projection 2 marks (GSP nav)
g. one mark questions based on all the above + solar system, International date liney, Calculation QUJ with the correction factor, altitudes, one in 60 rule, solstices, diff types of projection etc. (GSP nav)
Solar system is usually a neglected area during preparation and it can prove costly.
2. Radio Aids :
a. Radio theory
b. NDB
c.VOR
d. Doppler VOR
e. VDF
f. ILS - 3 mark qn both the times on calculation dist from the runway based on deviation in the loc and glideslope
g. Radar theory
h. DME
i. Radio altimeter
j. SSR
k. TCAS (imp)
l. GPWS - make sure you memorise different modes
Enhanced GPWS
m. GPS/GNSS
n. Airborne weather Radar
o. MLS
DGCA loves questions based on Range and accuracy. So make sure you know it for all of the above. Apart from that, going through the working in detail would help. I remember getting a question on 50 ft reference in the ILS. GSP radio aids is good enough.
3. Met: Study the general chapters regarding met in GSP met, meaning, you can leave out UK weather. Indian climatology should be studied seperately. Duggal notes work for that.
4. Instruments:
a. Altimeter, ASI, VSI with their working and errors.
b. Gyros - types (Space, tied, earth and rate - got 1 questions bot the times), Real wander, apparent wander(includes numericals as well which will carry 3 marks or 1 mark qn), Directional gyro with error and limitation, Artificial horizon and their errors(acceleraton error- pendulus vanes and units, Turning error - Erection error
and pendulocity error)
5. Flight planning : One 3 mark qn on MTOW(sure thing), multiple leg cp/pnr's (4 marks)
All the above is based on what I'd personally seen. I wouldnt really recommend using it as a syllabus guide, but apart from your preparation, make sure you have gone through the topics mentioned above.
Canuck,
I did most of my training in Canada. I know how good it is over there...hassle free.
Always moving,
Let ICAO listen to this :
I started my training in India years back, flew around 20 hrs and then quit. Reason : my flight time being "logged" in an other person's name. And it was very heartening to know of late that the same person who had my hours logged as his is an F/O in Kingfisher flying 320's.
Does integrity really exist?
Best Regards,
Divide by zero
1. Navigation :
a. every composite paper starts off with two numericals : one on cp and the other on pnr. The two types of qns I have come across are multiple leg cp/pnr's and cp/pnr with variable winds. Multiple leg examples can be found in GSP flight planning volumes chp 1 under PEF(point of equal fuel) and PSR(point of safe return). Variable wind examples can be found in GSP navigation. Both these questions carry 4 marks each, so thats a good 8% of the 70% pass mark required.
b. Questions on Great circle/Rhumb line tracks from A to B and B to A. Its better to work out all the questions in the GSP exercise section for this one. Different examples are Distance between two lats given, which can be used to find onvergency and hence GC r/l tracks, same latitude questions which is slightly different from the way you approach the solution for diff lats. usually between qns 10-18 and carries 2 marks.
c. One qn. on LMT to GMT conversion and vice versa. Carries 2 marks. (GSP nav)
d. couple of qns on air and ground distance with either 2/1 mark. (GSP nav)
e. One question on aircraft magnetism, usually finding deviation based on a b c coordinates 3 marks (Aircraft magnetism GSP Nav)
f. Finding scale at equator or a particular latitude for mercator projection 2 marks (GSP nav)
g. one mark questions based on all the above + solar system, International date liney, Calculation QUJ with the correction factor, altitudes, one in 60 rule, solstices, diff types of projection etc. (GSP nav)
Solar system is usually a neglected area during preparation and it can prove costly.
2. Radio Aids :
a. Radio theory
b. NDB
c.VOR
d. Doppler VOR
e. VDF
f. ILS - 3 mark qn both the times on calculation dist from the runway based on deviation in the loc and glideslope
g. Radar theory
h. DME
i. Radio altimeter
j. SSR
k. TCAS (imp)
l. GPWS - make sure you memorise different modes
Enhanced GPWS
m. GPS/GNSS
n. Airborne weather Radar
o. MLS
DGCA loves questions based on Range and accuracy. So make sure you know it for all of the above. Apart from that, going through the working in detail would help. I remember getting a question on 50 ft reference in the ILS. GSP radio aids is good enough.
3. Met: Study the general chapters regarding met in GSP met, meaning, you can leave out UK weather. Indian climatology should be studied seperately. Duggal notes work for that.
4. Instruments:
a. Altimeter, ASI, VSI with their working and errors.
b. Gyros - types (Space, tied, earth and rate - got 1 questions bot the times), Real wander, apparent wander(includes numericals as well which will carry 3 marks or 1 mark qn), Directional gyro with error and limitation, Artificial horizon and their errors(acceleraton error- pendulus vanes and units, Turning error - Erection error
and pendulocity error)5. Flight planning : One 3 mark qn on MTOW(sure thing), multiple leg cp/pnr's (4 marks)
All the above is based on what I'd personally seen. I wouldnt really recommend using it as a syllabus guide, but apart from your preparation, make sure you have gone through the topics mentioned above.
Canuck,
I did most of my training in Canada. I know how good it is over there...hassle free.
Always moving,
Let ICAO listen to this :
I started my training in India years back, flew around 20 hrs and then quit. Reason : my flight time being "logged" in an other person's name. And it was very heartening to know of late that the same person who had my hours logged as his is an F/O in Kingfisher flying 320's.
Does integrity really exist?
Best Regards,
Divide by zero
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How do you inform ICAO of such a things?
999 University Street, Montréal, Quebec H3C 5H7, Canada
Tel.: +1 514-954-8219
Fax: +1 514-954-6077
SITATEX: YULCAYA
Internet e-mail: [email protected] Internet ICAO home page: http://www.icao.int
Do they do anything about it?
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'Divide by 0' , that must have taken years to write .... it certainly is some great Info for the Conversion exams . Thanks .
'hpcock' , thanks for the info .
but my question still remains for all folks flying in India , Isnt there any Pilots Association who could take an Initiative for making things better ?
'Canuck15' , Don't mean to Intervene your personal matters, but just out of curiosity , why didn't u choose to continue flying in Canada ? (Might not be the right place to ask . My Apology).
Peace !
'hpcock' , thanks for the info .
but my question still remains for all folks flying in India , Isnt there any Pilots Association who could take an Initiative for making things better ?
'Canuck15' , Don't mean to Intervene your personal matters, but just out of curiosity , why didn't u choose to continue flying in Canada ? (Might not be the right place to ask . My Apology).
Peace !
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quick ?
I may have a chance to fly a corp aircraft in India, it will be based there although not VT reg. Will I have to jump the hoops and get the Indian ATPL? I am very high time(20,000 hrs.)and US FAA typed. Is there a chance that they would wave some of the test?
Thanks in advance. I have checked the DGCA web site and can not find what I need.
Mobie
Thanks in advance. I have checked the DGCA web site and can not find what I need.
Mobie
