B737NG Captains SPICE IT UP

[Nevrekar]

I have just joined Spicejet in Gurgaon, India as a Captain on the B737NG (800/900ER). I was previously with a major US airline flying the NG. For those of you considering India, Spicejet might be a good place to hang your hat. You must be 737 typed with 500 hrs PIC on type.
I had looked into JetAirways & AirIndia Express but decided on Spice instead. My major reasons for selecting SpiceJet were:
1. Smaller, and more personable as a Company. 11 A/C with 10 more coming.
Easy to communicate with them and they are very friendly and accomodating even after being here. Management team is top notch and pilot friendly.
VP Flight Ops is Jati Dhillon and Chief Pilot is Jack Ekl (Southwest/former USN Blue Angel #5). They go out of their way to make you comfortable. All the Capts and other pilots I have met have been very approachable and friendly. Other expats here love the place for the most part. They are hiring lots of age 60 guys from UAL, SWA, CO, AirTran, Suncountry, Alaska, AA.
2. Monthly scheduling. You get a monthly schedule so you can actually plan things. While they may be changes from time to time, you at least have a pretty good idea what you are doing all month. No daily rostering like JetAirways. It's 10 weeks off/3 weeks off, but they can adjust that. Like I said they are very accomodating. Mostly(90%) day trips--I have my family with me and so thats a big plus.
3. Pay is about same as any of the other pay packages offered.
4. Basing: New Delhi & Hydrebad. No Mumbai!!! Yipee. That was a big one for me.
5. Accomodations: 5* Hotel in Delhi like Taj or DLF City Club. Otherwise they give you $1500/month or a furnished apartment.
Hope this helps. Good luck in your job search. I highly recommend that you
SPICE it up !

[skytrek21]

Good post...definitely helps the guys looking for jobs in India and it's a really nice place to live and make good money. Whenever you get a chance post what you think of the industry there. Whether all the companies flying there are making money or you think consolidations are in the works. Good info thanks in advance.

Sky

[bear11]

I'm not disputing the majority of what you say, and it's great (unusual) to hear an expat in India who isn't complaining about a multitude of things. I would query your point 3. though - 2 Captains I know shopping for 737 in India at the start of this year decided to go elsewhere for one reason - they weren't being paid for their 3 weeks leave! Spice are unique in this, and they don't do flights home, which Jet and Air India do. If you add this all up, your comment on pay doesn't stack up. Can you confirm this is still the case?

[Nevrekar]

Havent heard anyone here complain about not being paid, and trust me I would have heard! I ran into a guy last week who has been here 4 months and he said "its a great place to work, you are really going to like it."
For the B-200 guy who sent me an email. I hate to be a naysayer, but the big thing here is time in type. Even time on the 737-200/300/400/500 does not seem to be greatly appreciated. They really want 500 PIC in type they currently fly for Capts. F/O's--they get Indian cadets with 250 hrs, so they have no incentive to hire expats. Some carriers do hire expat F/O's I'm told.
Spicejet is not one of them. With the age 60 rule, many 60 plus guys are coming over for some "play money."

To answer the last point made--You are correct--You DO NOT get paid when you take your 3 weeks off. Instead you get a travel allowance of $3000.
It amounts to making a bit less than Jet but QOL issues wise Spice is a better bet.

[HAWK21M]

Nice Guidelines for those interested.
Blue Dart has started hiring Expats F/Os too after Commandrs due to Pilot shortage for the B732SF & B752SFs.
regds
MEL

[Nevrekar]

Just completed my PIC "line check." I did several observation flights to get familiar and then 2 legs of IOE and a 2 leg line check. The hardest part for me was getting my bearings and getting used to the new procedures, accents and airports. They just give you a bag full of manuals. No ground school or indoctrination whatsoever. Lots of paperwork for performance etc. Its all done manually. No ACARS. Checkairman were very nice and friendly and experienced. Most of years of military flying plus a decade or so in civil aviation. F/O is responsible for paperwork (thank god!) and ops does the W&B.
They try (emphasis on try) to pair you with an experienced F/O for the first week or so, and then you can get just about anyone. Most of the F/O's have around 250 hrs when they start and are coming from a C-152/172/Seneca.

[The Dominican]

Most of the F/O's have around 250 hrs when they start and are coming from a C-152/172/Seneca.

It is like that in any regional in the US right now as well We are a few years away from that being the case in a 73, but it is coming

[NelsND]

Spice it Up

Thank you for a very informative post on spiceJet. After personally looking at another Indian carrier, I think spiceJet will be a much better fit for me. It's refreshing to read a positive article about a carrier and its management.

[Nevrekar]

The big complaint at Spicejet from expats right now is that they are flying too much. They do a monthly schedule but since they are so short Capts, they keep changing the schedule on you. Until they get more guys, I was told by other expats to work 6 day on/1 off, 30/7, 120/month. Some guys like that since they are sitting in the hotel anyway. The schedule is 10 week on/3 weeks off. But many negotiate other terms. They are in need so they will probably be open to just about any schedule terms. Indian Capts I am told fly 75-80 hrs. The dollar is losing ground on the rupee (used to be 45=1US). Now it is around 39 to a dollar. So keep that in mind. The problem as I see it is that they overwork you since they are short. But then guys get burned out and quit, which really shoots the airline in the foot. The work ethic in India is very different. People work 6 days a week normally and so scheduling does not seem to differentiate a desk job from flying. As I observe and learn more I will be happy to post. I will try to be as un-biased as I possibly can. Just know that while the opportunities are great, India may not be for everyone. Please come here at check it out before you sign. That would be my suggestion.

[fullforward]

Nice post!

Congrats for more one nice, honest and unbiased post.
This is what Pprune is all about.

PS.: how did you figure out this user name?

[unruly]

Probably from "nerve wrecker"? Just kidding! At last, a breathe of fresh air! Good post!

[Nevrekar]

Actually I am fairly transparent. It's my last name!! I have been called Nervewrecker, and also Never-a-car, always a bus! I am a US citizen of Indian origin who has never lived in India for any length of time. The last 19 years has been at several FAR121/135 Carriers in the US, including a stint in Indonesia and Saudi Arabia. Here is a list of carriers:

Conquest Airlines, Austin TX .. No longer operating
American Eagle, NY, MIA.
Carnival Airlines, FLL No longer operating
Sempati Airlines, Jakarta, Indonesia No longer operating
PanAm Airlines Furloughed
Kitty Hawk Not operating
Saudi Aramco
Midway Airlines... Shut down Sept 12, 2001
AirTran Airways
Spicejet

[Nevrekar]

Speaking of schedules and changes. Spicejet does a monthly schedule. Most expats here don't pay much attention because it keeps changing. For example, today is the 7th, and they have posted change #7. Expats are given SIM cards by the Company (you have to buy your own phone). You are apparently expected to answer the phone, even on your days off. It's very different from what most of us might be used to. The days of 15 days off etc are non-existent here. Also you seldom will get a long stretch of days off in a row. Bear in mind that this is what I am being told by expats who are currently here. I have not experienced this first hand but I am mentally preparing for this. The contract states minimum 8 days off. Expats are not getting that necessarily because you are not assigned "DAY OFF" on the schedule. You are simply not on duty for the day. All that means then that it is a day off unless they decide to call you out. Some expats went to scheduling yesterday-- "Blanket party"??? I have to clarify the day off policy because right now it is as clear as mud. Also some schedules have you RON somewhere for 24 hrs, and your day off is there. Works ok for single guys, but for family guys like me(family with me) it does not serve much benefit.

[jati dhillon]

i greatly appreciate the frank discussions and comments being shared about SpiceJet. The last few weeks have stretched the pilots due to grounding of aircarft. A spate of unrelated unservicibilities of pressurisation, alfa vane damge, engine change have occured in quick succession which required rescheduling of aircarft.

Considering the commitment to the travelling public, flights were not canceleld but rescheduled. The comoany ran a 11 aircarft schedule with 9 aircarft for a few days. This tore up the monthly schedule.

Things should stabalise by Monday.

[NGFellow]

Nervewrecker--I hope that your transperancy as you put it does not get you in trouble. Look out for "Big Brother"--You are obviously used to speaking your mind without reprimand. It takes B***S to use your own name on this forum. I know a lot of guys who have been raked over the coals because of something they posted on Pprune.

[Nevrekar]

Thank you for your concern. I remember when I interviewed with Saudi Aramco back in 1997. They were very concerned that applicants and especially their wives would be able to adjust to life in Saudi Arabia. Many folks looked only at the money aspect, got there and didn't last more than a few months. It was counterproductive for ARAMCO because they spent tons of money to get you there, and now they had to hire someone else. The point I am making is that you are better equipped to make an informed decision if you know the facts ahead of time. From my experience US flight scheduling/Ops is quite different from India. Someone used to having 15-17 days off a month (I did), with designated days off (no phone answering) needs to be aware that this is not the case in India or in many parts of Asia and the ME. It is not a Spicejet specific issue. It is a cultural one.
Its apples and oranges. On the flip side of the coin, there are numerous positives here that can be used to offset the negatives. It depends on your approach and attitude.

Contract pilots accept contracts for a variety of reasons. Many stay for a few short months, while others stay on longer because of need or simply because they enjoy the organization and the flying. Some even come with their families. My case is unique. I chose to come to India for personal reasons. I was very happy in my last position and enjoyed great seniority and scheduling. I found Spicejet on pprune and folks were quite happy working there. Even those who had left had nothing bad to say. So we decied to have a go of it. My wife & I came in March to check things out and meet the folks. We made a major decision to move to India. We sold our house, cars etc and shipped all our personal belongings at our own expense. Our being in India is for the long term. We have lots of family here, business and other opportunities, and we can live in India without a time limit. We also can converse in the language--atleast enough to get a point across. All these aspects make India much more palatable for us.

Spicejet is a growing organization with a lot going on in its favor. The load factors are phenomenal. I have yet to meet someone who was unfriendly.
The operations are very efficient. We do 20-30 min turns.
We have a great bunch of Indian & expat pilots. I have met a few of them.
They have varied backgrounds and this place has become a mini United Nations! It brings a lot of flavor as well as good experience to the flightdeck.

If you are a 737NG Capt considering a contract in India then I still think that Spicejet is one organization that you should consider. I wish you well in your quest.

[NelsND]

spiceJet

Thanks again for a VERY informative post. And I am especially impressed by a Director of Flight Operations who takes the time to explain what the problem of scheduling was, and on this forum. As I stated previously, I went to Mumbai for a screening as was not impressed with how it was handled by a "major" carrier (I never did get my air fare reimburstment as advertised, but I would have gone anyway.) Your posts and the words about SpiceJet from the Chief Pilot have assured me that I am making the right choice. I've been an expat before, and what you say about the job is absolutely correct. It ain't for everybody. Check it out for yourself, it's worth the tripand expense.

[Nevrekar]

Just completed my SIM training/checkride in Hong Kong. The company does their sim training either in Mumbai, Dubai or Hong Kong. I was sent a packet with all information needed including foreign exchange for the 3 days I would be here. Transport picked up and took me to the airport. I traveled on AirIndia (economy) and it was a 5 hr flight. We left at 11PM and arrived 0700AM. HK is 2.5 hrs ahead of India. I stayed at a very nice hotel called the Novotel Citygate which has a mall connected. It is 5 mins from the airport and the surrounding view is breathtaking. A few hrs after arrival I received a call from our Chief Pilot, Jack Ekl welcoming me to HK and giving me details of report time etc. My sim was from 1945-2345 for two days. We met downstairs at 1830 and the hotel takes you to the training center. The training center is called GECAT. It is a GE/Cathay Pacific training center and it is very impressive. First day in the Sim was recurrent training. We covered a variety of items no different than what you might expect at any FAR 121 airline (if you are coming from the US). Here is a list of things I remember.
Start problems, taxi out engine overspeed, hig/low speed abort, windshear profile, v1 cut, 2eng ils, 1eng ils, ieng vor, non radar vor with full procedure, steep turns, all stalls, eng fire, failure, damage, rapid D, emergency descent, visual approach, flap assymetry leading to no flap landing, cat ii to a G/A followd by eng failure on G/A, pilot incapacitation, cargo door open in flight, eng fire/fail on short final etc. etc. The next sim session was similar and items were introduced at different times. Ther were no tricks and I found the training/checking to be excellent and unbiased. Debrief was thorough and meaningful. Initially I did not know what to expect and after going through it I must say I was pleasantly surprised. I didn't get to see much of HK or get any suits made this time! I was too busy hitting the books. US citizens get a 90 visa at the airport while Indians get 14 days. If you like to gamble Macau is 1 hr away via ferry. Hope this helps. Best regards.

[rajchid26]

southasia

anand,
i appreciate ur candor and i do NOT think that is any cause for worry.I'd just like to put down a few observations on expats in general as a chkcrew member,for the benefit of all:
1.RTOW charts are a weak area,espy with 998mbs &49C.
2.A few donot rigidly follow procedures ,thus setting a poor example to the youngsters.(ex152/172)
3.Excessive VNAV /LNAV reliance, in that ,there is many a time one is just told to intercept radials,this leaves a slightly greyarea.
4.While things r NOT ideal in INDIA, it does hurt one's national pride when these r criticised very often.
happy landings

[speedtwoten]

Jati Dhillon

Very interesting post fro Navrekar, how could we apply to Spice, heard any restriction for expat in India to change job, as I'm now flying for Air Sahara which so mess organisation lead by graduated Capt from Jet Airways name Capt. S. Kapur, more expat here are looking for other job's but restrict by company to obtain No Objection Clearance, even you are resigned.