Going to Massey's in NZ. Hopefully will join up with a local SG carrier. One problem.
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Going to Massey's in NZ. Hopefully will join up with a local SG carrier. One problem.
As topic says, I am a 20 year old Singaporean currently serving my national service. I end at the end of the year. My plan so far is to apply to Massey's, finish my degree in aviation and hopefully get a spot as a 2nd Off in SIA or Cathay.
Only one problem, I wear glasses, my degree is around 200 each in both eyes. LASIK is certainly an option I've considered, but I am not too keen as it is not 100% guaranteed you'll have perfect eyesight and you might even land up worse off than you were.
So my question is, what are my chances getting in with glasses? Will they give preference to candidates who have perfect 6/6 eyesight over me?
Only one problem, I wear glasses, my degree is around 200 each in both eyes. LASIK is certainly an option I've considered, but I am not too keen as it is not 100% guaranteed you'll have perfect eyesight and you might even land up worse off than you were.
So my question is, what are my chances getting in with glasses? Will they give preference to candidates who have perfect 6/6 eyesight over me?
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Have you consider SFC ? They do accept private candidates now. Visited their office at Seletar, the staffs are quite friendly, shake some hands and was told they are 4 blokes flying with them privately.
Oh, not forget to mention it cost about the same as Massey.
Oh, not forget to mention it cost about the same as Massey.
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I'm serving NS as well now and I thought of going down the route you're going to take as well. After so much research and advice given by everyone here I just thought I should pass this on as well. It's not possible to enter the airline industry fresh out of Massey with just only 200 hours time. Many airlines if not are are looking at jet experience and at least 1000 hours total flying time.
And it seems that SIA doesn't give preference to those with a license, even a CAAS one. They'll select you based on their own criteria. Only if you pass the interviews and everything like the others do then you'll get to go straight to the learjet.
Just some food for thought!
And it seems that SIA doesn't give preference to those with a license, even a CAAS one. They'll select you based on their own criteria. Only if you pass the interviews and everything like the others do then you'll get to go straight to the learjet.
Just some food for thought!
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Not SFC. I want a degree as well. Massey will let me get that.
Yes I know it is not possible to enter SIA direct. I will be trying on my own merit to get into their cadetship. Last resort would be to work as an instructor, or go crop dust overseas
Anyway, my question is still left unanswered, what about glasses?
Yes I know it is not possible to enter SIA direct. I will be trying on my own merit to get into their cadetship. Last resort would be to work as an instructor, or go crop dust overseas
Anyway, my question is still left unanswered, what about glasses?
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Why the hell would anyone want to choose Massey, they are the worst flying school in New Zealand if not the entire world. The B. Av degree is about as well respected in the real world of commercial aviation as the Mcdonalds Hamburger University.
With regard to eyesight, how much is 200 degrees in old school terminology (i.e. -2, -3 etc?) I had PRK in my eyes before I took up flying and it worked out perfectly, well it got me onto an airbus anyway
With regard to eyesight, how much is 200 degrees in old school terminology (i.e. -2, -3 etc?) I had PRK in my eyes before I took up flying and it worked out perfectly, well it got me onto an airbus anyway
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Why the hell would anyone want to choose Massey, they are the worst flying school in New Zealand if not the entire world. The B. Av degree is about as well respected in the real world of commercial aviation as the Mcdonalds Hamburger University.
Massey certainly has it's disadvantages, but it has a lot of plusses too, especially for Singaporeans and other foreign nationals. Most of the downsides only apply to NZ GA - so if Effee's career goals don't include trying to get a start in NZ GA, its a great option to consider. Most of the foreign students couldn't give a toss if the Waikikamookau Aeroclub won't touch Massey C cats.
For the Singaporean students, Massey University has a licence conversion agreement with CAAS, which makes getting a Singapore CPL way easier than training at any other NZ flight school.
So Effee, if you're aiming at SIA, and if you're going to train in NZ, Massey University is probably your best option. Just ask for advice from all the other Massey graduates flying for SIA, and ignore the likes of Skytoddler. Some of his comments may well apply to a kiwi looking for a start in GA, but outside of his version of "real world commercial aviation" its a good way to go
Last edited by turbolager; 5th Mar 2007 at 11:29.
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I'm glad it worked out for you turbolager mate, and thanks for advising me to
I'll take your timely advice under consideration.
Since the dude by his own admission knows he can't get into SIA with minimum hours, and knows he might have to
then I thought he might in fact appreciate being presented with an alternate point of view than the big glossy Massey sales pitch tends to provide.
Effee mate, no disrespect but the fact that you are even talking about crop dusting, or second officer at Cathay (!!), as a viable option for a fresh flying school graduate, indicates someone who doesn't really understand the realities of the global situation for 200 hour CPLs. It's very very tough out there.
Agricultural flying is probably even harder to get into than SIA or Cathay are, believe it or not. And unless you get onto one of their cadet schemes, you won't get a Cathay or Singapore interview without several years commercial flying experience on turboprops or small jets. I freely admit I don't know the first thing about the SIA cadet scheme, but I thought the point of cadet schemes in general is that you don't pay for your CPL/IR, the airline does?!
The problem with Massey - the fact that myself and turbolager both alluded to - is that there is a well defined prejudice against graduates of that particular school, amongst certain employers of low time pilots in the New Zealand and Australian scene. A lot of allegations have been made about the quality of the Massey product. If you use the search function on here you can find them all for yourself.
Whether any of the statements are true or not I won't comment, but the plain facts are that most other flying schools in NZ can sort you out with a CPL/IR in about 12 months and $NZ50,000. Massey takes minimum 3 years and costs well over $NZ100,000. Anyone who is considering going there, would be crazy not to ask some very very hard questions about what they are getting that justifies the extra time and expense.
It doesn't take an extra two years and an extra $50,000 to convert a NZ CPL/IR into a Singapore one either when the time comes, so that thing with the B Av and the CAAS just might not be all it appears to be
Of course, if you just know that you're on that gold plated highway to that SIA 777 straight out of flying school, because that's what it said in the Massey sales brochure, and if you don't think there's even a chance in a million that you might end up having to do some time on a smaller aircraft first, and if you don't actually care at all what other first-job type of employers think of Massey, then by all means take turbolager's advice and ignore everything I just said
I don't intend to get into a 'mines bigger than yours' contest but suffice to say I am an airline pilot in Europe with a bit over a decade of experience in the left and right seat, who's also ex Massey instructing staff.
I do agree with turbolager on one thing though - don't only take the advice of me, or him, or any other random person on the internet when it comes to making such a big decision. Do not trust or believe a word that comes out of the marketing department of ANY flying school, whether it's Massey or some hillbilly aero club ar anything in between. If your plan is to fly for SIA then talk to as many SIA pilots as you can possibly find.
travel and fly a bit more before making global generalisations
Since the dude by his own admission knows he can't get into SIA with minimum hours, and knows he might have to
work as an instructor, or go crop dust overseas
Effee mate, no disrespect but the fact that you are even talking about crop dusting, or second officer at Cathay (!!), as a viable option for a fresh flying school graduate, indicates someone who doesn't really understand the realities of the global situation for 200 hour CPLs. It's very very tough out there.
Agricultural flying is probably even harder to get into than SIA or Cathay are, believe it or not. And unless you get onto one of their cadet schemes, you won't get a Cathay or Singapore interview without several years commercial flying experience on turboprops or small jets. I freely admit I don't know the first thing about the SIA cadet scheme, but I thought the point of cadet schemes in general is that you don't pay for your CPL/IR, the airline does?!
The problem with Massey - the fact that myself and turbolager both alluded to - is that there is a well defined prejudice against graduates of that particular school, amongst certain employers of low time pilots in the New Zealand and Australian scene. A lot of allegations have been made about the quality of the Massey product. If you use the search function on here you can find them all for yourself.
Whether any of the statements are true or not I won't comment, but the plain facts are that most other flying schools in NZ can sort you out with a CPL/IR in about 12 months and $NZ50,000. Massey takes minimum 3 years and costs well over $NZ100,000. Anyone who is considering going there, would be crazy not to ask some very very hard questions about what they are getting that justifies the extra time and expense.
It doesn't take an extra two years and an extra $50,000 to convert a NZ CPL/IR into a Singapore one either when the time comes, so that thing with the B Av and the CAAS just might not be all it appears to be
Of course, if you just know that you're on that gold plated highway to that SIA 777 straight out of flying school, because that's what it said in the Massey sales brochure, and if you don't think there's even a chance in a million that you might end up having to do some time on a smaller aircraft first, and if you don't actually care at all what other first-job type of employers think of Massey, then by all means take turbolager's advice and ignore everything I just said
I don't intend to get into a 'mines bigger than yours' contest but suffice to say I am an airline pilot in Europe with a bit over a decade of experience in the left and right seat, who's also ex Massey instructing staff.
I do agree with turbolager on one thing though - don't only take the advice of me, or him, or any other random person on the internet when it comes to making such a big decision. Do not trust or believe a word that comes out of the marketing department of ANY flying school, whether it's Massey or some hillbilly aero club ar anything in between. If your plan is to fly for SIA then talk to as many SIA pilots as you can possibly find.
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missed ya reply there Skytoddler, too late I edited :-)
Agree with most of what you say.
I wouldn't for a moment suggest Effee believe any flight school's marketing machine, simply pointing out that for many Singaporean's, its a good way into their national airline. Massey are a bit slicker than some, mostly just because they're bigger, but you'll get a similar line of B.S from any commercial flight school. Which you'll find out when you speak to them all researching your investment!
Surely something has gone horribly wrong if it costs $100k. How much do they charge? Luke probably knows more about that. If thats correct then go to Whakatipu Aeroclub instead, cheaper and you'll have more fun
Agree with most of what you say.
I wouldn't for a moment suggest Effee believe any flight school's marketing machine, simply pointing out that for many Singaporean's, its a good way into their national airline. Massey are a bit slicker than some, mostly just because they're bigger, but you'll get a similar line of B.S from any commercial flight school. Which you'll find out when you speak to them all researching your investment!
Surely something has gone horribly wrong if it costs $100k. How much do they charge? Luke probably knows more about that. If thats correct then go to Whakatipu Aeroclub instead, cheaper and you'll have more fun
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Effee
LST is being polite.
I shall summarise: you're dreaming if you think you can get into SQ via Massey. Yes, dreams do come true. Yes, there are a few Massey boys in SQ. And there are a few Massey boys not flying, driving taxis, whatever.
The 200 degrees is not a problem with CAAS. If eyesight is an issue, it is an issue with CAAS not the airline.
A few questions you should ask yourself :
1. How old will be be when you are done with Massey?
2. How old MUST you be before you can join SQ / Silkair / SinCargo?
3. What will you do if there is a gap?
4. What are the time limits to remain current before your CPL lapses?
5. Will Massey give you the whole contact list of Singaporeans who have done the B Av programme? If not, why not? Should you not contact as many of them as possible to see how long they took to land a job, whether SQ or anywhere else? What percentage of them are in an airline job and after trying how long? Will the graduands meet you face-to-face or remain some ghost on a forum?
I shall summarise: you're dreaming if you think you can get into SQ via Massey. Yes, dreams do come true. Yes, there are a few Massey boys in SQ. And there are a few Massey boys not flying, driving taxis, whatever.
The 200 degrees is not a problem with CAAS. If eyesight is an issue, it is an issue with CAAS not the airline.
A few questions you should ask yourself :
1. How old will be be when you are done with Massey?
2. How old MUST you be before you can join SQ / Silkair / SinCargo?
3. What will you do if there is a gap?
4. What are the time limits to remain current before your CPL lapses?
5. Will Massey give you the whole contact list of Singaporeans who have done the B Av programme? If not, why not? Should you not contact as many of them as possible to see how long they took to land a job, whether SQ or anywhere else? What percentage of them are in an airline job and after trying how long? Will the graduands meet you face-to-face or remain some ghost on a forum?
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Hi Effee
My advise is to call CAAS and ask them what schools they accept hours from when it come to applying for your CPL CAAS licence. From memory their are only two of which massey is one. Just remember that some users in here have a pretty wrap version of the facts.
My advise is to call CAAS and ask them what schools they accept hours from when it come to applying for your CPL CAAS licence. From memory their are only two of which massey is one. Just remember that some users in here have a pretty wrap version of the facts.
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Massey
HEY mate (the guy wants to go massey)
i had exatly the same thoughts as you when i sarted, but after the the 2 years of my "university life", spent $140,000 of my parents money, and realise massey wont give me a full time contract, or give anyone a full time contract...i left them and flew with an other flight school, ended up with a full time job, and reasonablely amount of hours.
at the moment i can still finish the degree, but i dont think i am going to finish it, until i get into an airline.
i know people had 200hr massey degree went to both SIA and cathay interviews....when they see your forzen ATPL, you will not be qualified for cadets. so they put you into the direct entry pool. compete with people have 3000 hr TT, 1500 turbine PIC, therefore you dont have a chance at all, even you have the smartest mouth and best c..ok sucking technique...
oh by the way, the degree....(the piece of paper)...." is this real?" that was literally what they asked my friend, so i assume all the assignments and late night studies of your bull sh..t aviation management meant nothing...nothing at all mate.
i had exatly the same thoughts as you when i sarted, but after the the 2 years of my "university life", spent $140,000 of my parents money, and realise massey wont give me a full time contract, or give anyone a full time contract...i left them and flew with an other flight school, ended up with a full time job, and reasonablely amount of hours.
at the moment i can still finish the degree, but i dont think i am going to finish it, until i get into an airline.
i know people had 200hr massey degree went to both SIA and cathay interviews....when they see your forzen ATPL, you will not be qualified for cadets. so they put you into the direct entry pool. compete with people have 3000 hr TT, 1500 turbine PIC, therefore you dont have a chance at all, even you have the smartest mouth and best c..ok sucking technique...
oh by the way, the degree....(the piece of paper)...." is this real?" that was literally what they asked my friend, so i assume all the assignments and late night studies of your bull sh..t aviation management meant nothing...nothing at all mate.
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Thanks to all that replied, I've been following numerous flight forums which said that you should not take up aviation as a degree. It would be better to take up another non aviation related degree and do flying on the sidelines. That way you have a back up in case you do not get into aviation. I guess I was hoping the B.Av degree would give me extra leverage in the interview.
So, if I decide not to go to Massey, and instead take non related degree elsewhere in NZ, while doing flying, would my NZ licence still be recognised by CAAS?
Am I right to say that having a degree in Aviation with 200hrs and frozen ATPL would matter no less to an airline than a degree in XXX with 200hrs and a ATPL taken from another flight school.
I understand flying is a unstable career option, I am not kidding myself, I might never find myself in the seat of a 777. I might never even get into the cockpit and instead be working as baggage handler, however, I can't help feeling that I at least must give it a try before I give up my ambition. I would be 25-26 when I finish Massey (if I go there) just the right age for SIA.
Also, I would appreciate any alternate routes to go education wise.
To Skytoddler, would you mind sharing which route you took to land you up flying? Did you school at Massey?
Thank you all
So, if I decide not to go to Massey, and instead take non related degree elsewhere in NZ, while doing flying, would my NZ licence still be recognised by CAAS?
Am I right to say that having a degree in Aviation with 200hrs and frozen ATPL would matter no less to an airline than a degree in XXX with 200hrs and a ATPL taken from another flight school.
I understand flying is a unstable career option, I am not kidding myself, I might never find myself in the seat of a 777. I might never even get into the cockpit and instead be working as baggage handler, however, I can't help feeling that I at least must give it a try before I give up my ambition. I would be 25-26 when I finish Massey (if I go there) just the right age for SIA.
Also, I would appreciate any alternate routes to go education wise.
To Skytoddler, would you mind sharing which route you took to land you up flying? Did you school at Massey?
Thank you all
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To set things straight... it is NOT true that if you have frozen ATPL from Massey (or any other institution), SIA won't accept you as cadet. I know 2 ex-cadets who are Massey graduates and they went through the whole cadetship process minus the Jandakot phase. Bare in mind that CAAS (not SIA) only recognizes CPL ME/IR from Massey, not frozen ATPL, hence cadets who are Massey graduates have to go through the ATPL ground school phase in Seletar for the first 6 months together with other SIA cadets, and then on they can go straight to Learjet phase in Maroochydore.
The only frozen ATPL that CAAS recognizes is the one from MFA. If a SIA cadet has frozen ATPL from MFA, he/she will go straight to Learjet phase, by-passing the Seletar and Jandakot phase.
To answer Effee question: CAAS don't recognize any other flying school in NZ except for Massey. However, most if not all SIA cadets with non-Singapore CPL ME/IR will get 40 hours exemption towards the required 200 hours of training, which equates in roughly 2-3 months of training time in Jandakot.
The only frozen ATPL that CAAS recognizes is the one from MFA. If a SIA cadet has frozen ATPL from MFA, he/she will go straight to Learjet phase, by-passing the Seletar and Jandakot phase.
To answer Effee question: CAAS don't recognize any other flying school in NZ except for Massey. However, most if not all SIA cadets with non-Singapore CPL ME/IR will get 40 hours exemption towards the required 200 hours of training, which equates in roughly 2-3 months of training time in Jandakot.
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All you wannabes do yourself a favour and look here (it's on the same forum and you can't even be bothered to look it up?):
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...213914&page=10
The URL to whom CAAS recognises is found there. And forget about logic like "since CAAS recognises MFA therefore...."
Don't try to be smarter than the all powerful CAAS.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...213914&page=10
The URL to whom CAAS recognises is found there. And forget about logic like "since CAAS recognises MFA therefore...."
Don't try to be smarter than the all powerful CAAS.
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Thermal image was right.. Logic seems to be missing from CAAS' dictionary.. I tried once to get my hours recognized and failed, although some of my mates with exactly the same qualification from the same country as mine (even the same flying school..) and their hours was recognized...