Korean Air
Join Date: May 2003
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ELAC, he doesn´t know what he is in for. The F/O´s in KAL are just waiting for that and the stabbing will start. There are Korean F/O´s waiting for upgrade over years and then they see some Expat-F/O´s put ahead of them... Then imagine one of the Ex-Airforce Accademy Captains is flying with one of the Expat-F/O´s. Nice climate in the Freezer but in the Cockpit??? There are Expat Captains under training who walk just away as they cannot stand the humiliation of cope with the invisisble unwritten but wellknown Korean Procedure. How difficult must it be for a F/O to stand and cope it?
Fly safe and land happy
NG
Fly safe and land happy
NG
Join Date: Aug 2000
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"stand the humiliation of cope with the invisisble unwritten but wellknown Korean Procedure" ?
I have been flying for KAL without a problem for six years. It is actually better than most other airlines, especially in Asia.
Don't be a scaremonger, NG...
I have been flying for KAL without a problem for six years. It is actually better than most other airlines, especially in Asia.
Don't be a scaremonger, NG...
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Job as a F/O in Korea....Hmmmm
If you wish to join, it's totally up to you.
But First of all, I wonder KAL really will hire expat F/O in what condition.
Second of all, Even though they hire expat F/O, you never can be a captain. Sturbborn airforce guys will be mad. and there are too many local guys waiting for upgrade.
last, It will be a lot different to fly as a F/O than captain in korea.
Funny personal procedure over company procedure and humiliation are real matters.
Cultural gap is exist.
Never expect any respect as a same pilot like western society.
If you know any local F/O, consult with them first.
the life is different.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Planet Earth
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Never say never!
The world is changing, especially in Asia. Most countries like China, India and yes, even Korea are entering unchartered territory. If they want the quality pilots and keep abreast of Asia's booming economy, they will have to adapt or risk cancelling flights.
What this means is that they will have to consider hiring ex-pats whether in the LH or RH seats to keep their planes crewed. The incentives to get these people will need to be good and that includes upgrades, otherwise in te end it will cost them more. It's a question of retention.
Look at any crew leasing agencies websites and all you hear are "new and improved terms and conditions". They are beginning to post stuff that would have been unheard of a few years ago.
So, never say never because that is short-sighted and life changes. Those that can adapt to changes will do well compared to those that have their heads in the sand. It's a global economy now, in case you had not noticed!
The world is changing, especially in Asia. Most countries like China, India and yes, even Korea are entering unchartered territory. If they want the quality pilots and keep abreast of Asia's booming economy, they will have to adapt or risk cancelling flights.
What this means is that they will have to consider hiring ex-pats whether in the LH or RH seats to keep their planes crewed. The incentives to get these people will need to be good and that includes upgrades, otherwise in te end it will cost them more. It's a question of retention.
Look at any crew leasing agencies websites and all you hear are "new and improved terms and conditions". They are beginning to post stuff that would have been unheard of a few years ago.
So, never say never because that is short-sighted and life changes. Those that can adapt to changes will do well compared to those that have their heads in the sand. It's a global economy now, in case you had not noticed!
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Old dog and New trick
It’s a true.
The Asian economy is booming and they need pilot to keep there growth.
But I think the subject is current T & C. You can not fly to there with just unconfirmed hope.
We hope so many things in reasonable way. It should be there now. But the real world doesn’t move fast like the way we hope. The contract which you sign now is your T & C for several years.
There is an another truth.
It is hard to teach an old dog new trick (especially in Korea). Even though they need change, it will take time.
And the real matter is nobody know how long it will take.
If you got luck, you may have new contract in next term.
If you don’t…..Well….You are on your own.
Is it worth to scarify your whole career?
You may have better T & C in somewhere else.
I don’t want to discourage anybody. I just want to say we should be careful.
Good flight.
The Asian economy is booming and they need pilot to keep there growth.
But I think the subject is current T & C. You can not fly to there with just unconfirmed hope.
We hope so many things in reasonable way. It should be there now. But the real world doesn’t move fast like the way we hope. The contract which you sign now is your T & C for several years.
There is an another truth.
It is hard to teach an old dog new trick (especially in Korea). Even though they need change, it will take time.
And the real matter is nobody know how long it will take.
If you got luck, you may have new contract in next term.
If you don’t…..Well….You are on your own.
Is it worth to scarify your whole career?
You may have better T & C in somewhere else.
I don’t want to discourage anybody. I just want to say we should be careful.
Good flight.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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>> do you think expat Fo's will have to a type as well?
Yea you need a type rating.
I think you could assume thats pretty much the gameplan at KAL as far as the eye can see. Experience is cheaper to buy (or contract out) than to wait for especially as KAL emerges from its tarnished safety reputation which cost the company a lot more than any type rating.
Today one could imagine KAL recognizes the nearly endless supply of cheap, reliable, trainable pilots in South Korea but what it failed to see until recently was a highly pronounced lack of commercial aviation experience outside of the Korean peninsula. Maybe this is a result of hiring Korean Air Force pilots exclusively? Maybe we'll never really know..
But ultimately the substantial lack of experience plagued the company's reputation and forced an immediate need to "import" new skills & flying principles from the west. CRM (Crew Resource Management) was one of the first & most popular principles to be adopted. It has since helped domestic korean pilots acheive safe, predictable operations around the world which are commensurate with the safety expectations the traveling public demands.
So in short to your question, yes, you need a type rating; F/O, Captain, whatever. The corporate culture at KAL appears to have emerged into a very conservative one mindful of safety & quality which I think are noteworthy characteristics considering where the company came from just a few years ago.
But at the end of the day whether you're a Korean national, Canadian or an intergalactic martian (and I believe there many out there) you probably wont get on with KAL unless you've got the credentials & experience the company demands.
If you're a Korean citizen you can apply directly at KAL’s recruitment website: http://recruit.koreanair.co.kr/ but just like in the United States, many positions are posted for legal reasons and the chances of getting called in for interview are probably debatable. One thing to keep in mind there are an Air-Force flow-thru agreement along with hundreds of domestic F/O's on low-pay domestic equipment (737NG) waiting for upgrades to better equipment.
So even if you're Korean, unless you're a Korean citizen you're best off at an outside contractor:
Parc Aviation -
http://www.parcaviation.aero/aviation/FlightcrewJobs.asp
GAP Aviation -
http://www.gapaviation.com/index.html
South Pacific Aircrew -
http://www.pilotcareercentre.com/JobResearchAirlineDetail.asp?AirlineID=58
Rishworth Aviation - http://www.rishworth.co.nz/opportunities/oppslist.asp?cat=1
Euro-Pacific Aviation -
http://www.euro-pacific-aviation.com/
Cambridge Communications -
(???) - I think this is one but not much virtual info
From whats negotiable on the internet people seem to like the Euro-Pac contract but in the end like anything in life what you sign is what you get. I just got ripped off by a cell-phone company that suckered me into 2-year wireless contract with absolutely abysmal service & terms. So it will cost me USD $150 to ditch the service for a new carrier,,scam artists!
Good luck!
Yea you need a type rating.
I think you could assume thats pretty much the gameplan at KAL as far as the eye can see. Experience is cheaper to buy (or contract out) than to wait for especially as KAL emerges from its tarnished safety reputation which cost the company a lot more than any type rating.
Today one could imagine KAL recognizes the nearly endless supply of cheap, reliable, trainable pilots in South Korea but what it failed to see until recently was a highly pronounced lack of commercial aviation experience outside of the Korean peninsula. Maybe this is a result of hiring Korean Air Force pilots exclusively? Maybe we'll never really know..
But ultimately the substantial lack of experience plagued the company's reputation and forced an immediate need to "import" new skills & flying principles from the west. CRM (Crew Resource Management) was one of the first & most popular principles to be adopted. It has since helped domestic korean pilots acheive safe, predictable operations around the world which are commensurate with the safety expectations the traveling public demands.
So in short to your question, yes, you need a type rating; F/O, Captain, whatever. The corporate culture at KAL appears to have emerged into a very conservative one mindful of safety & quality which I think are noteworthy characteristics considering where the company came from just a few years ago.
But at the end of the day whether you're a Korean national, Canadian or an intergalactic martian (and I believe there many out there) you probably wont get on with KAL unless you've got the credentials & experience the company demands.
If you're a Korean citizen you can apply directly at KAL’s recruitment website: http://recruit.koreanair.co.kr/ but just like in the United States, many positions are posted for legal reasons and the chances of getting called in for interview are probably debatable. One thing to keep in mind there are an Air-Force flow-thru agreement along with hundreds of domestic F/O's on low-pay domestic equipment (737NG) waiting for upgrades to better equipment.
So even if you're Korean, unless you're a Korean citizen you're best off at an outside contractor:
Parc Aviation -
http://www.parcaviation.aero/aviation/FlightcrewJobs.asp
GAP Aviation -
http://www.gapaviation.com/index.html
South Pacific Aircrew -
http://www.pilotcareercentre.com/JobResearchAirlineDetail.asp?AirlineID=58
Rishworth Aviation - http://www.rishworth.co.nz/opportunities/oppslist.asp?cat=1
Euro-Pacific Aviation -
http://www.euro-pacific-aviation.com/
Cambridge Communications -
(???) - I think this is one but not much virtual info
From whats negotiable on the internet people seem to like the Euro-Pac contract but in the end like anything in life what you sign is what you get. I just got ripped off by a cell-phone company that suckered me into 2-year wireless contract with absolutely abysmal service & terms. So it will cost me USD $150 to ditch the service for a new carrier,,scam artists!
Good luck!
.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
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Is there anything more I should be aware of ? I`ve read some threads and most of them are positive.
Rgds.
