Types of managements at EVA & CAL...
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I know this will be a bit like tilting at windmills. Somebody with your kind of mentality would fit in real well at an airline that thinks abuse of employees is the way to good discipline. Your comments/examples below are a clear indication of that. Lets take them one at a time, shall we?
"Is it your suggestion that a "review board" is much too harsh a punishment for not wearing the reflective vest? Since there is clear proof that the event took place, it cannot be mere accusation. Was it already clear to crew that they were to wear the vest (itself a safety-based, very legitimate instruction), and that failure to do so can result in review board consequences? Or was the review board an absurd consequence / abuse of power? Why have you left out such details? You need to be more convincing."
Um, yes, a review board is way over the top. How about just mentioning to the guy that it is required to wear a vest at most international airports ? Perhaps he was from the States where it is not common practice and he forgot it. Simple and effective method to get the point across without being too draconian. The method takes all of 5 seconds and it doesn't become an example of management abuse on Pprune.
"Moving on to the cabin crew being fired for the bread: SIA has also fired crew for similar incidents. They knew it was an offence. They took leftovers, got caught, were investigated and fired, end of story. In the case you mentioned, did the crew know that they were not to do such things? On the other hand, if your company has nothing in writing that prohibits the following, do you therefore then siphon out the kerosene from your tanks if actual burnoff is less than planned burnoff "AFTER" (following your example of using uppercase) a flight?"
Taking company stores off fo an airplane is a fine line. It would depend on company policy, but most companies have the realistic attitude that if it is a perishable item and has already been opened ( such as bread ) then it is okay. Your example of siphoning fuel out of the tanks is stupid and completely irrational.
"And finally, your remarks about the 0.02 BAC limit. Sweden also has a 0.02 limit. But to say that you can trigger that with a fart reveals your attitude towards instructions, authority and discipline."
This ones a bit more tricky, I think UU was trying to say that is a very low trigger point and that something like mouthwash ( which contains some alcohol ) use could trigger a positive test. What then ?, get fired for having fresh breath ? Good digital analysers will give you accuracy to within a very impressive 0.01%.
So there would need to be a process for another confirmation test if one did indeed blow positive. I don't know the facts of any positive tests at EVA, nor the process, but one would hope they have a follow-up test and don't just rely on a single breath test that could be inaccurate. I'm sure such a process exists in Sweden.
"Since there is such an obvious mismatch of expectations, and CAL or EVA management ain't leaving, then just put your money where your mouth is and leave."
Etops did leave and I won't go, for these and other reasons.
Typhoonpilot
I know this will be a bit like tilting at windmills. Somebody with your kind of mentality would fit in real well at an airline that thinks abuse of employees is the way to good discipline. Your comments/examples below are a clear indication of that. Lets take them one at a time, shall we?
"Is it your suggestion that a "review board" is much too harsh a punishment for not wearing the reflective vest? Since there is clear proof that the event took place, it cannot be mere accusation. Was it already clear to crew that they were to wear the vest (itself a safety-based, very legitimate instruction), and that failure to do so can result in review board consequences? Or was the review board an absurd consequence / abuse of power? Why have you left out such details? You need to be more convincing."
Um, yes, a review board is way over the top. How about just mentioning to the guy that it is required to wear a vest at most international airports ? Perhaps he was from the States where it is not common practice and he forgot it. Simple and effective method to get the point across without being too draconian. The method takes all of 5 seconds and it doesn't become an example of management abuse on Pprune.
"Moving on to the cabin crew being fired for the bread: SIA has also fired crew for similar incidents. They knew it was an offence. They took leftovers, got caught, were investigated and fired, end of story. In the case you mentioned, did the crew know that they were not to do such things? On the other hand, if your company has nothing in writing that prohibits the following, do you therefore then siphon out the kerosene from your tanks if actual burnoff is less than planned burnoff "AFTER" (following your example of using uppercase) a flight?"
Taking company stores off fo an airplane is a fine line. It would depend on company policy, but most companies have the realistic attitude that if it is a perishable item and has already been opened ( such as bread ) then it is okay. Your example of siphoning fuel out of the tanks is stupid and completely irrational.
"And finally, your remarks about the 0.02 BAC limit. Sweden also has a 0.02 limit. But to say that you can trigger that with a fart reveals your attitude towards instructions, authority and discipline."
This ones a bit more tricky, I think UU was trying to say that is a very low trigger point and that something like mouthwash ( which contains some alcohol ) use could trigger a positive test. What then ?, get fired for having fresh breath ? Good digital analysers will give you accuracy to within a very impressive 0.01%.
So there would need to be a process for another confirmation test if one did indeed blow positive. I don't know the facts of any positive tests at EVA, nor the process, but one would hope they have a follow-up test and don't just rely on a single breath test that could be inaccurate. I'm sure such a process exists in Sweden."Since there is such an obvious mismatch of expectations, and CAL or EVA management ain't leaving, then just put your money where your mouth is and leave."
Etops did leave and I won't go, for these and other reasons.
Typhoonpilot
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MEDWIN
Hopefully you've started at EVA or very shortly will be, I know I said i'd like your views on the company in a years time, but given that we now have pilots resigning before even completing training, (apparently these chaps happened to agree with undecided username's views on EVA, ) it would be interesting to hear your views whilst you're under training. I would normally wait until at least you've finished line training, but who knows.
Hopefully you've started at EVA or very shortly will be, I know I said i'd like your views on the company in a years time, but given that we now have pilots resigning before even completing training, (apparently these chaps happened to agree with undecided username's views on EVA, ) it would be interesting to hear your views whilst you're under training. I would normally wait until at least you've finished line training, but who knows.
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Typhoon
Nicely said.
Thermal
Already did. 
Get a life !!
Nicely said.
Thermal
Since there is such an obvious mismatch of expectations, and CAL or EVA management ain't leaving, then just put your money where your mouth is and leave.
Get a life !!
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at one stage i was applying for both of these airlines as a way to get some heavy time, but after talking to crews at heathrow positioning home to all sorts of distant places i think not. i did a search on this site and came across www.nankantraz.org there sure are some unhappy men out there.
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Found a link about CAL. Same thing.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...0&pagenumber=9
AAIGUY
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
posted 31st August 2005 21:53
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If you look at my intial posts I was very keen on CAL. It SEEMED to offer everything.
As I got further into the process I realized it was all lies. They will do anything they can to get you to sign the bond and join. Then they will change it all. You will have no recourse.
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
posted 31st August 2005 21:53
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If you look at my intial posts I was very keen on CAL. It SEEMED to offer everything.
As I got further into the process I realized it was all lies. They will do anything they can to get you to sign the bond and join. Then they will change it all. You will have no recourse.
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dai chon doi,
I don't know if you read my post correctly, I didn't express any opinion about the company at all, all I said was what they told me during the interview and what I saw on the contract.
Believe me when I say "I have good reasons why I'm joining this company". And if anyone of you interested to find out what those are, feel free to PM me.
Med
I don't know if you read my post correctly, I didn't express any opinion about the company at all, all I said was what they told me during the interview and what I saw on the contract.
Believe me when I say "I have good reasons why I'm joining this company". And if anyone of you interested to find out what those are, feel free to PM me.
Med
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Undecided Username
Thank you for demonstrating that you are just a good storyteller and nothing more.
You have provided no further details when questioned point blank about the incidents you claimed happened. At least dai chon doi is mature enough to reason with me.
Instead you resort to making personal attacks like Get A Life *censored*. What's the matter? Can dish it out but can't take it? The way you present your case just makes you look like a whiner. It may be true that a whole bunch of other foreigners share your feelings about Eva, but your one-sided bitching just makes you look like a pussy.
It's therefore not surprising why you and your ilk (hey, no need to get them to do a gangbang on me) could not fit in, especially as guest workers in a foreign country, especially with an attitude such as "I could trigger that with a fart".
I'm sure more than your employers said good riddance to you when you finally left.
You have provided no further details when questioned point blank about the incidents you claimed happened. At least dai chon doi is mature enough to reason with me.
Instead you resort to making personal attacks like Get A Life *censored*. What's the matter? Can dish it out but can't take it? The way you present your case just makes you look like a whiner. It may be true that a whole bunch of other foreigners share your feelings about Eva, but your one-sided bitching just makes you look like a pussy.
It's therefore not surprising why you and your ilk (hey, no need to get them to do a gangbang on me) could not fit in, especially as guest workers in a foreign country, especially with an attitude such as "I could trigger that with a fart".
I'm sure more than your employers said good riddance to you when you finally left.
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MEDWIN
Quite the contrary, I read all your posts very carefully indeed before posting a reply. And there's a real inference if not a strict out opinion. But that's splitting hair's right. Myself and many others here at Eva will be and are simply gagging to find out your reason(s) for joining Eva. And i'm sure they're all perfectly good ones at that. Remember the original thread regarded the quality or lack thereof of the operational management at Eva and Cal. There have been some valid and then some disingenuous replies to this. That aside I shall take up your kind offer and contact you directly, and also, as I said previously i'd be very interested in your opinion once you've completed training and one year later ( if you stay that is)
Quite the contrary, I read all your posts very carefully indeed before posting a reply. And there's a real inference if not a strict out opinion. But that's splitting hair's right. Myself and many others here at Eva will be and are simply gagging to find out your reason(s) for joining Eva. And i'm sure they're all perfectly good ones at that. Remember the original thread regarded the quality or lack thereof of the operational management at Eva and Cal. There have been some valid and then some disingenuous replies to this. That aside I shall take up your kind offer and contact you directly, and also, as I said previously i'd be very interested in your opinion once you've completed training and one year later ( if you stay that is)
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Thermal
Who's the one with the kindergarten pussy mentality now. Your inability to reason obviously makes up your short comings. Geez, did you think of that one all by yourself ???
If you want, I can give you names and tel numbers and you can call those in question.
This is an information board and I was just giving the brutal truth. Don't shoot the messenger.
Your jealousy and lack of spatial reasoning obviouslys shows that you are angry and frustrated that some are leaving for greener/better pastures.
I guess you are entitled to your opinion (an opinion is like as a**hole, everyone's got one; unfortunately, some are bigger than others) If you dont believe me, read about posts from other members. I guess that they fall in the same category, as you have so clearly defined.
If you want specifics, PM me or anyone else and find the honest truth. Without knowing first hand, put up or shut up.
Actually, it was me that that said good ridance (along with the 20 guys that have already left this year and the other possible 50 guys slated to leave). Do you think that they are all wrong too ??
Get a life.
On the other hand, if your company has nothing in writing that prohibits the following, do you therefore then siphon out the kerosene from your tanks if actual burnoff is less than planned burnoff "AFTER" (following your example of using uppercase) a flight?
You have provided no further details when questioned point blank about the incidents you claimed happened.
This is an information board and I was just giving the brutal truth. Don't shoot the messenger.
Your jealousy and lack of spatial reasoning obviouslys shows that you are angry and frustrated that some are leaving for greener/better pastures.
It may be true that a whole bunch of other foreigners share your feelings about Eva, but your one-sided bitching just makes you look like a pussy.
If you want specifics, PM me or anyone else and find the honest truth. Without knowing first hand, put up or shut up.
Actually, it was me that that said good ridance (along with the 20 guys that have already left this year and the other possible 50 guys slated to leave). Do you think that they are all wrong too ??
Get a life.
Last edited by Undecided username; 19th Oct 2005 at 00:28.
