737 Down in Indo
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Sad few weeks for the B737
While feelings for the family and friends of the victims are paramount, it is certainly a sad period for the trusty old B737. This is 3 in 3 weeks, possibly an unprecedented rate of attrition for a modern RPT jet.
I see that the plane had recently been checked (what level is not specified) so it makes you wonder about heavy maintenance being shipped offshore from Oz does it not?
J
I see that the plane had recently been checked (what level is not specified) so it makes you wonder about heavy maintenance being shipped offshore from Oz does it not?
J
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Nice to see the media with their usual accuracy!!! 
Not a good look for the old 737... what is this?? 6 air crashes in a little over that many weeks?? (3 on 737?)
(Helios, ATR, Peru, Venezuela, Toronto....) scary!!!
Transport Minister Hatta Rajasa said 109 people were on board the stricken plane, but Metro television station reported that around 190 people were on the jet.
(Helios, ATR, Peru, Venezuela, Toronto....) scary!!!
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Airplane Crash Kills 117 in Indonesia
Monday September 5, 2005 7:31 AM
JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) - An Indonesian jetliner crashed into a crowded residential neighborhood in the city of Medan shortly after takeoff Monday, killing all 117 on board and an unknown number on the ground, officials said.
The Mandala Airlines Boeing 737 was heading to Jakarta when it crashed one minute after takeoff and burst into flames, said Transport Minister Hatta Radjasa.
It was carrying at least 117 passengers and crew, said the airline's acting president, Maj. Gen. Hasril Hamzah Tanjung.
``They have all died,'' Edi Sofyan, a government spokesman in Medan, told The Associated Press by telephone. There were also casualties on the ground, he said, though he did not know how many.
Smoke billowed from the burning debris and dozens of houses and at least 10 cars were in flames or damaged. Hundreds of policemen, paramedics and residents were trying to evacuate victims.
Syahrial Anas, a doctor overseeing the removal of charred bodies, said flames were hampering their efforts. Officials said one of the dead included the governor of North Sumatra province, who was heading to the capital for a meeting with the president.
``We're having a hard time getting to the bodies, because of the heat,'' Anas told the AP.
Medan, the country's third largest city, has been a major staging point for tsunami relief operations in Aceh province, which occupies the northern tip of Sumatran island. The international airport is close to the center of town and is surrounded by densely populated residential areas.
Mandala Airlines is a Jakarta-based domestic carrier founded in 1969 by a military-run foundation. Its 15-plane fleet consists mainly of 1970s-vintage Boeing 737-200 jets. In recent years, the financially troubled airline has been forced to cut services and fares to remain competitive.
Tanjung said an investigation was being carried out into the cause of the crash.
The plane was nearly 25 years old, he said, and received its last comprehensive service in June. It had flown more than 50,000 hours and was due to be retired in 2016.
Monday's crash follows five major airline accidents in August, the deadliest month for plane disasters since May 2002. Some 334 people died in accidents in Peru, Venezuela, Greece and Tunisia last month. A plane also overshot a runway in Toronto and caught fire; no one died.
Indonesia's last crash involving a jetliner occurred in February 2005, when 26 people were killed when a plane operated by Lion Air, a low-cost carrier, skidded off the runway on Java Island, killing 26 people.
Monday September 5, 2005 7:31 AM
JAKARTA, Indonesia (AP) - An Indonesian jetliner crashed into a crowded residential neighborhood in the city of Medan shortly after takeoff Monday, killing all 117 on board and an unknown number on the ground, officials said.
The Mandala Airlines Boeing 737 was heading to Jakarta when it crashed one minute after takeoff and burst into flames, said Transport Minister Hatta Radjasa.
It was carrying at least 117 passengers and crew, said the airline's acting president, Maj. Gen. Hasril Hamzah Tanjung.
``They have all died,'' Edi Sofyan, a government spokesman in Medan, told The Associated Press by telephone. There were also casualties on the ground, he said, though he did not know how many.
Smoke billowed from the burning debris and dozens of houses and at least 10 cars were in flames or damaged. Hundreds of policemen, paramedics and residents were trying to evacuate victims.
Syahrial Anas, a doctor overseeing the removal of charred bodies, said flames were hampering their efforts. Officials said one of the dead included the governor of North Sumatra province, who was heading to the capital for a meeting with the president.
``We're having a hard time getting to the bodies, because of the heat,'' Anas told the AP.
Medan, the country's third largest city, has been a major staging point for tsunami relief operations in Aceh province, which occupies the northern tip of Sumatran island. The international airport is close to the center of town and is surrounded by densely populated residential areas.
Mandala Airlines is a Jakarta-based domestic carrier founded in 1969 by a military-run foundation. Its 15-plane fleet consists mainly of 1970s-vintage Boeing 737-200 jets. In recent years, the financially troubled airline has been forced to cut services and fares to remain competitive.
Tanjung said an investigation was being carried out into the cause of the crash.
The plane was nearly 25 years old, he said, and received its last comprehensive service in June. It had flown more than 50,000 hours and was due to be retired in 2016.
Monday's crash follows five major airline accidents in August, the deadliest month for plane disasters since May 2002. Some 334 people died in accidents in Peru, Venezuela, Greece and Tunisia last month. A plane also overshot a runway in Toronto and caught fire; no one died.
Indonesia's last crash involving a jetliner occurred in February 2005, when 26 people were killed when a plane operated by Lion Air, a low-cost carrier, skidded off the runway on Java Island, killing 26 people.
SkySista,
Apparently went off the runway into a heap of houses, those killed may have been on the ground, understand 10 cars also destroyed.
Weather there today was forecast vis around 4000 m, with TSRA, so a wet runway might have been a factor in a late reject.
Looks like they took off on 23, NOTAMs indicating that 05 approach lights U/S from 0651 today, if they went off the end off 23, there is a gully that the aircraft would have hit before getting to the houses.
Don’t forget the 737 of Kam Air that crashed on approach to Kabul earlier in the year. Something like 4900 737 series made, with 116+ hull losses, and 3398 people lost. About 2450 A320 series made, 13 hull losses, with 329 people lost. With stats like that I would fly Jetstar over OzJet any day.
This airframe supposed to have 50,000+ hrs on it, 25 years old.
Apparently went off the runway into a heap of houses, those killed may have been on the ground, understand 10 cars also destroyed.
Weather there today was forecast vis around 4000 m, with TSRA, so a wet runway might have been a factor in a late reject.
Looks like they took off on 23, NOTAMs indicating that 05 approach lights U/S from 0651 today, if they went off the end off 23, there is a gully that the aircraft would have hit before getting to the houses.
Don’t forget the 737 of Kam Air that crashed on approach to Kabul earlier in the year. Something like 4900 737 series made, with 116+ hull losses, and 3398 people lost. About 2450 A320 series made, 13 hull losses, with 329 people lost. With stats like that I would fly Jetstar over OzJet any day.
This airframe supposed to have 50,000+ hrs on it, 25 years old.
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Yeah well I think its hard to compare all the 737 fleet to the A320 fleet, theres a lot of old clapped out 73's around, same as comparing a 737-200 to a 737NG pretty hard to. Unfortunately with the exponential increase in flying going on in Asia and the boom in LCC's these will become common events. I read somewhere recently that in 10 years statistically there will be an event like this every 2 days or so, taking into account the forecast massive growth in air travel...
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swh, thanks. Clarifies the figure of "190". I was just surprised they were reporting that many on the a/c itself. Hopefully not too many on the ground killed... 
Each accident has its own unique factors/causes. I don't think comparing manufacturers is really relevant at this point. Boeing & Airbus don't control things like weather or the people who fly their planes!!
(Not suggesting either as a cause yet, just making a point!
)
Each accident has its own unique factors/causes. I don't think comparing manufacturers is really relevant at this point. Boeing & Airbus don't control things like weather or the people who fly their planes!!
(Not suggesting either as a cause yet, just making a point!
)
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25 year old aircraft due to be retired in 2016?
That would have made it a 36 year old aircraft on retirement.
Some military aircraft reach an advanced age before being scrapped, but how many of them work as hard as short haul passenger jets?
I know there is a push for older workers to remain in the workforce, but I didn't realise it extended to aircraft as well.
Hmmmmm....
That would have made it a 36 year old aircraft on retirement.
Some military aircraft reach an advanced age before being scrapped, but how many of them work as hard as short haul passenger jets?
I know there is a push for older workers to remain in the workforce, but I didn't realise it extended to aircraft as well.
Hmmmmm....
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Old Jets Can Fly Safely
It's probably fair to say that most of the older aircraft find their way into third world operations (and Australia may be no different) but provided the right combination of flight crew discipline, maintenance and flight prep procedures are adhered to, good operational reliability can be expected. Statistically the accidents are unrelated but the common factor may be systemically mirrored.
Given an aircraft is not well maintained, the crew not well trained, an event could occur from which the crew cannot recover. The converse would also be true.
e.g.
- engine failure with the second engine operating below margin and unable to continue the take off. Good 2nd engine ensures drag of rudder is overcome and aircraft maintains height.
- engine destruction due to excessive wear and tear resulting in wing tank breach. Regular internal inspections and performance monitoring ensures early loss of performance is picked up in time.
- explosion in a fuel tank due to vapour and arc. Good wiring and regular inspections of the wiring ensures good margin of safety.
- failure of aileron or spoiler control cables due to corrosion resulting in loss of control. Proper inspections for corrosion and fraying, routing etc ensures cables are maintained in good condition.
- rudder control failure resulting in asymmetric flight and unchecked roll. Regular checks for leaks and functional checks as well as incorporation of modifications ensure good reliability.
In fact flying tiger, I think you hit the nail on the head. The industry should be employing more of the older aircraft engineers and pilots because they have valuable experience like that.
Given an aircraft is not well maintained, the crew not well trained, an event could occur from which the crew cannot recover. The converse would also be true.
e.g.
- engine failure with the second engine operating below margin and unable to continue the take off. Good 2nd engine ensures drag of rudder is overcome and aircraft maintains height.
- engine destruction due to excessive wear and tear resulting in wing tank breach. Regular internal inspections and performance monitoring ensures early loss of performance is picked up in time.
- explosion in a fuel tank due to vapour and arc. Good wiring and regular inspections of the wiring ensures good margin of safety.
- failure of aileron or spoiler control cables due to corrosion resulting in loss of control. Proper inspections for corrosion and fraying, routing etc ensures cables are maintained in good condition.
- rudder control failure resulting in asymmetric flight and unchecked roll. Regular checks for leaks and functional checks as well as incorporation of modifications ensure good reliability.
In fact flying tiger, I think you hit the nail on the head. The industry should be employing more of the older aircraft engineers and pilots because they have valuable experience like that.
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Weather around the time of the accident (02:40 UTC) was:
WIMM 050300Z 15006KT
5000 SCT016 30/25 Q1008 NOSIG=.
Weather would not appear to be a factor - "harzy and calam!" The aircraft most probably departed R/W 23, as per normal operations. It's frightening to consider the final number of ground casualties in that location. Very sad.
WIMM 050300Z 15006KT
5000 SCT016 30/25 Q1008 NOSIG=.
Weather would not appear to be a factor - "harzy and calam!" The aircraft most probably departed R/W 23, as per normal operations. It's frightening to consider the final number of ground casualties in that location. Very sad.
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The media confusion started with: Mandala 734 (the flight sometimes operated by 734), then Mandala A330 (WTH?), then Mandala 737 (unknown series), then Mandala 737-200 by about lunch time. At least none said a "Mandala Juhmbhooow"
SWH,
Runway was dry at the time.
They did take off 23.
I posted a pic in the news and rumour forum showing the crash site.
PK-RIM first delivered to Lufthansa in 1981... 24 years old Almost 25...
No more approach lights on 05 for the moment. -RIM tore them all.
Cr4ppy day... had a meeting cancelled because someone's wife broke down in tears (a MDL CA1) after hearing her friends had died so the hubby and to console her at home, cancelling my meeting... In the evening, had to console my wife who just returned and she was shaking everytime she saw the news.
PK-KAR
SWH,
Runway was dry at the time.
They did take off 23.
I posted a pic in the news and rumour forum showing the crash site.
PK-RIM first delivered to Lufthansa in 1981... 24 years old
Almost 25...No more approach lights on 05 for the moment. -RIM tore them all.
Cr4ppy day... had a meeting cancelled because someone's wife broke down in tears (a MDL CA1) after hearing her friends had died so the hubby and to console her at home, cancelling my meeting... In the evening, had to console my wife who just returned and she was shaking everytime she saw the news.
PK-KAR
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Owner
This 737-200 operated by Madela Airlines is owned by a Company Called Areo Lanka, They run operations in Sri Lanka and US where the owners are based in US ( Leasing Business ) and his Brother is Based in Indonesia.
PK-RAR,
That photo is a fake, it was taken in the later part of 2003.
The circle is just around trees, not the crash site.
PS ... Thank you for correcting me, I should have written the aircrafts 25th year of service, not 25 years old.
I posted a pic in the news and rumour forum showing the crash site.
The circle is just around trees, not the crash site.
PS ... Thank you for correcting me, I should have written the aircrafts 25th year of service, not 25 years old.
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Swh,
Sorry, I meant the picture indicated where the aircraft had crashed. I know the picture was taken a while back. No approach shot of 05 from anyone yet since the crash.
It's meant to give a description on where the plane ended up in relation to the runway...
Never in that thread did I write that the picture was taken AFTER the crash. with hindsight I posted a pic in the news and rumour forum showing the crash site should be rephrased into I posted a pic in the news and rumour forum to indicate where the aircraft rested.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
PK-KAR
Sorry, I meant the picture indicated where the aircraft had crashed. I know the picture was taken a while back. No approach shot of 05 from anyone yet since the crash.
It's meant to give a description on where the plane ended up in relation to the runway...
Never in that thread did I write that the picture was taken AFTER the crash. with hindsight I posted a pic in the news and rumour forum showing the crash site should be rephrased into I posted a pic in the news and rumour forum to indicate where the aircraft rested.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
PK-KAR
I suspect the Mandala accident is a repeat of the Lion Air B737-200 take off problem from Pekanbaru on Mon 14 Jan 2002, fortunately no fatalities.
(2 days later a Garuda B737-300 landed in a river near Yogyakarta after both engines flamed out in heavy rain. A female cabin crew drowned after leaving the aircraft)
(2 days later a Garuda B737-300 landed in a river near Yogyakarta after both engines flamed out in heavy rain. A female cabin crew drowned after leaving the aircraft)
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It does look similar...
However, a lot of the flaps and fairings that broke off had already been stolen from the place by the local "recyclers"... This is the difficulty on having a crash in a dense area... people control is hard.
PKU was a 732 at light weight with no flaps...
MES is a heavy 732... looks like a similar chain of events...
However, the compressors have now been deemed "deformed"... Looks like this is a combination of a few factors unlike LID in PKU which was relatively simple...
Re. the GA 733 river ditching... The NTSC report last time I checked wasn't released... Her drowning doesn't make sense as the plane rested on only knee deep water... Some said her jumpseat collapsed and she broke her back/neck when the aircraft impacted rock jutting out/near the surface... Oh well...
PK-KAR
However, a lot of the flaps and fairings that broke off had already been stolen from the place by the local "recyclers"... This is the difficulty on having a crash in a dense area... people control is hard.
PKU was a 732 at light weight with no flaps...
MES is a heavy 732... looks like a similar chain of events...
However, the compressors have now been deemed "deformed"... Looks like this is a combination of a few factors unlike LID in PKU which was relatively simple...
Re. the GA 733 river ditching... The NTSC report last time I checked wasn't released... Her drowning doesn't make sense as the plane rested on only knee deep water... Some said her jumpseat collapsed and she broke her back/neck when the aircraft impacted rock jutting out/near the surface... Oh well...
PK-KAR
