Advice needed from SIA(and aspiring) pilots

[<Shimura>]

Hi all,

I am very encouraged by the show of camaraderie amongst the thread of SIA cadet pilot and can one day become a SIA pilot myself.
I am a 25 year-old female Singaporean who is currently pursuing a CPL with multi-engine endorsement and IFR. As I am pretty kiasu, I wanted to weigh my chances of getting in the cadet program by calling the HR departments of both SIA and SilkAir. The former rejecting me on the basis of not hiring females, the latter says that they do, but selection is done by SIA.

My dilemma is whether to shamelessly pursue this aspiration, or to be more realistic and try other avenues (other airlines, ATC).
Any advice/comments will be greatly appreciated!

[lorads]

hi,

I knew silkair do have famale pilots, but not sure for cadets, anyway you can always try.

I think with your determination, sure you will become a commercial pilot one day.

btw where did you do your CPL/IR? care to share the cost?

thanks and best wishes

[<Shimura>]

Hi lorads,

Thanks for your encouragement, I am doing my course at Moorabbin Airport in Melbourne. For a CPL/IR (without diploma/degree) will come to roughly AU$55k taking about a year to complete.
But do consider carefully if this is necessary for you, as I never got a definitive answer from HR about whether this experience gives you an advantage over others. However, if you do get selected, you maybe heading over to Australia sooner than your compatriots, pending the management's approval of your licence.

[Ghostrider777]

Hi shimura,

Just offering a help here,try out British Airways.Check out their website.How about australia,new zealand....or maybe india and china?the industry is booming in both these countries.

This is from kingfisher airlines website:
Co-Pilots:

Current medical, CPL, FRTO, COP/RTR, IR on multi-engine and minimum of 25 hrs on multi-engine aircraft (10 hrs could be completed on an approved multi-engine simulator).

Eligible candidates will be called for written test followed by an interview.

This is from british airways:

Pilots
Eligibility Checklist

Age/Residency
No more than 49 years old at the time of application
Passport allowing unrestricted worldwide travel
Entitled to live and work in the EU without time restriction

Qualifications
Full UK issued JAA/CAA ATPL or Frozen ATPL
Current JAA/CAA Class 1 medical

Language Skills
Spoken and written fluency in English
Clear diction

Physical
Physically fit and in possession of a JAA/UK CAA Medical Licence (Class 1) and able to satisfy British Airways medical requirements. Please note that British Airways’ medical criteria for employment is of a higher standard than the CAA requirement.
Height between 1.57m (5'2") and 1.91m (6'3") with weight in proportion to height, (height is accurately determined during the assessment process). Qualified pilots who are taller than 1.91m may submit an application but will be required to undergo a functionality check to confirm their ability to meet the requirements of the seating positions in the British Airways fleet of aircraft.

Hmm.....i dont see anything about male or female.....check out other airlines yourself......

Good luck

[<Shimura>]

Hi Ghostrider777,

Thanks for all the options, its a great help... you definitely have been doing your assessments.
I have looked into some airlines and maybe the possibility of instructing/charter work/aerial work to get my hours up. But I am still holding my neck out for a policy change (hopefully soon!) so that I can be based in Singapore.

[greybeard]

There were/are 2 ladies in Silkair, one ex, very senior S'pore Airforce check and trainer on the Fokker 50 fleet there before joining as an F/O, who I believe has now left for other places in a LCC????

The other was a daughter of a very senior SIA Capt, and went thru the Cadet Scheme after a short time as a Cabin Crew.

lots of luck

[Ghostrider777]

Why not try Air Asia?I heard they hire females......By the way,M'sia is just across the Tebrau Straits..... Home sweet Home

[<Shimura>]

Hi greybeard,

Yup.. I remember that newspaper article.. it actually reassured me of pursuing this path. I just hope that my luck will hold out the next time the recuit.

Ghostrider777: I think its excellent that both MAS and AA recuit female cadets...
Will like your help to clarify this, I have a Malaysian friend who told me that with a policy change in both airlines, they wanted to help the locals schools. Therefore, unless you were trained in Malaysia, they will not be considering you. Furthermore, to get a conversion to Malaysian license, I will need spend another $20K more to cover for the 17 theory subjects and at least 35 hours flying. Please advise.. thanks!

[Xatrix]

Check ur messages,

Cheers

[Ghostrider777]

Hi Shimura,

Well I'm not someone who is seriously into the aviation industry yet,maybe soon.I'm just like one of those out there aspiring to be in the flight deck. Some knowledge and info which I picked up here and there,that's all I got to offer.I wont be able to offer much help about the licence conversion thing.Maybe you should check up with MFA,www.mfa.edu.my and LATC,www.langkawiaerospace.com

By the way,about the policy change,never heard of anything yet....Maybe someone who is in the industry can offer more help......Good luck

[<Shimura>]

Hey Ghostrider777,

All the best for your future endeavors and thanks again for your help.

[winglet_fever]

hi all,

heard from my xiemen airline pals that china is very short of bilingual GA instructors. Can you guys converse in chi-na? if yes, it will be an added advantage.

heaps of kiwi C cats over there at the moment. heard that low hour pilots are quite sort ofter too. its worth spending a few hour seaching through main land's aviation websites with help of a chinese friend to do the translation?

=P

happy landings...

[Red777]

Shimura, don't just aspire to one airline even know we all do and i do also with SQ...the idea is to keep your options open...with good training and a strong license such as a English/Australian/American license you can apply basicly anywhere and get conversion easily...

I had a interview with a well know SQ person...Cpt Len McCully he stressed to me last year good training is a must for the industry and espeically SQ for direct entry pilots if thats an option you are looking at after completing your training....

Remember and i have been told many times by Airline pilots...there is more then one airline out there...as stupid as that sounds you will soon relise and if your heart is in it for the flying career any paid flying/airline job will be rewarding....

winglet_fever i have herd through the grape vine that China are looking for around 8000 odd pilots for the next 10-15 years....anyone back that statement up?

Regards red777

[<Shimura>]

Hi Red777,

Yes I agree with you that aspiring pilots should not restrict themselves to one airline. That was my perception error prior to starting my flight training, as I'm pretty patriotic plus being close to my family is very important to me.
Since posting this thread, I have the good fortune of receiving valuable advises from many people, yourself included.
Just curious, are you based in Perth or Brisbane at the moment?

winglet_fever: Thanks for your post... now I only hope that my half- bake chinese can help me read those websites!

[Red777]

<Shimura> im based in MCY....how about yourself?

[EverettWings]

Shimura, I think it is neither shameless nor foolish to continue pursuing being a pilot, especially for a major international carrier. Isn't that what drives us all to pursue this career anyway? I know people who have been working hard at getting into SIA and have spent many years racking up instructor hours, regional airline and GA hours elsewhere before finally making their major airline break. It's obvious if you've gone on your own to pursue a CPL/IR that you love flying and if that's what you love doing, the journey to getting to a major carrier will be rewarding.

I've heard that there are first officer training programs available in America. I dont have any explicit details on such programs but I know they exist. You may want to run a search on the internet. Basically they don't pay well but at the end of the year-long program, you'll end up with F/O hours on turboprops or jets and an FAA CPL. It might not seem like much right now but I think with some F/O experience, u'll have an edge when it comes to re-applying to the big carriers. And it's only a year-long program. Hopefully one day SIA will begin hiring female pilots like CX or Silk. All the best in your endeavors!

[astina]

Business Times - 12 Jul 2005

Business Times - 12 Jul 2005


Is there a pilot in the cockpit?

The real drama in China's rapidly expanding aviation industry is its shortage of hands on deck

(HONG KONG) China's booming commercial aviation industry is taking off faster than the country can train pilots, a trend that threatens future growth and hard-won advances in air safety.

About 11,000 pilots now fly more than 800 aircraft operated by major Chinese commercial airlines, according to figures from the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC). Experts believe this number is still inadequate to cope with skyrocketing demand for passenger services. In fact, the agency has capped the number of new aircraft to be delivered to airlines this year at 145 in a bid to ensure manageable growth in the industry. But even these new aircraft are expected to outstrip the capacity of training schools to supply new pilots.

The airlines are reluctant to comment on the shortage, but some smaller Chinese carriers have been forced to flout government policy and recruit foreign pilots as a stopgap measure to keep their aircraft flying at optimum levels.

Industry experts and reports in the official Chinese media confirm that the Chinese carriers that have employed foreign pilots include Shenzhen Airlines, Hainan Airlines, Sichuan Airlines, and the country's first private operator - Okay Airlines.

China-based pilots estimate that there are now well over 100 foreign pilots flying for Chinese carriers. There are also unconfirmed reports that some airlines have been forced to cancel services because of the lack of pilots.

'China may have been caught out a little here,' says John Bent, a Hong Kong-based aircrew training specialist and former senior airline pilot. 'They don't really want to use foreign pilots, but they don't really have any choice in the short term.'

The demand for pilots is likely to increase. Boeing estimates that China will need more than 2,400 new passenger and freight aircraft worth almost US$200 billion over the next two decades. 'In the next 20 years, we estimate China will need 55,000 captains,' says George Liu, a Beijing-based spokesman for Boeing.

Barry Grindrod, a Hong Kong-based aviation analyst and chief executive of Orient Aviation magazine, warns that the impressive safety record Chinese airlines have built in recent years could be in jeopardy if the shortage persists.

'If you don't have enough pilots, there is always a risk that corners will be cut,' he says.

Mr Grindrod adds that most of the foreigners now flying in China were recruited from South America, particularly Brazil and Chile, and Eastern Europe.

While foreign pilots might be a short-term solution to China's pilot shortage, analysts believe that the authorities and the airlines will need to sharply increase the output of pilots from training schools to match the industry's growth.

CAAC statistics show that China's major airlines carried 120 million passengers in 2004, a 38 per cent increase over 2003. Demand is expected to ease this year, but industry analysts expect passenger numbers to jump by at least 15 per cent.

And with close to 10 per cent of active pilots nearing retirement age, Chinese airlines are under short-term pressure to recruit and train.

Jeff Ruffolo, a spokesman for China's biggest carrier, the New York and Hong Kong-listed China Southern Airlines, says the company is planning to expand its pilot training intake without any compromise in standards or resorting to overseas recruiting. 'We grow our own pilots,' he says. 'We do not take any military pilots and we do not take any foreigners.'

Mr Ruffolo says China Southern was growing in 'leaps and bounds' and now has a fleet of more than 230 aircraft serving on more than 540 domestic and international routes. It has also ordered more than 70 new aircraft from Boeing and Airbus.

Unlike other Chinese airlines, China Southern operates its own introductory flight training school, the China Southern Western Australia Flying College, near Perth. Graduates undergo further training in Zhuhai. More than 800 pilots who began their training in the Perth facility have gone on to fly with the airline.

China's only domestic school now training commercial airline pilots, the CAAC-run Civil Aviation Flight University of China based in Sichuan and Henan provinces, supplies a maximum of 600 pilots a year.

Airline pilots and industry experts estimate that China required between 1,200 and 1,600 new pilots each year since 2000 - far more than the number trained domestically. Much of the shortfall had been covered by sending candidates overseas for training.

Analysts note that Chinese airlines are not alone in the battle to recruit and train pilots. This is a problem for all major international carriers at a time when soaring fuel prices are cutting into their profits. - IHT

Copyright © 2005 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.

[Ghostrider777]

"Analysts note that Chinese airlines are not alone in the battle to recruit and train pilots. This is a problem for all major international carriers at a time when soaring fuel prices are cutting into their profits. - IHT"

Hmm......this includes MAS............?

[<Shimura>]

Red777: I am over at YMMB; weather not too pretty over here... severe icing from 5000ft to 15000ft... aiyoh...

EverettWings: Thank you so much for your encouragements and advise... I was looking for the easier route by applying for cadet... but I am enjoying my training over here in Australia... GA flying is great! Still deciding on my next step very carefully... and will take your suggestion to check the F/O training in US.

astina: Thanks for the post...hope that the aviation industry in mainland china can open its doors soon.

[Red777]

Conditions have been ace here the last few days after such along period of wet and misrable WX on the eastern seaboard...5000ft icing..i could imagen the temps down YMMB field hahah

Like EverettWings said continue aspiring to that goal because i know i do and thats what gets me up every morning....

Cheers red777