any chances for EU pilots in Asia?/Ex Mas Pilots, (Merged).
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Robert Palmer,
What are you so sore about. Hey....I am not a bumi too you know. Were you ever in MAS. I cant comment much about aviation in malaysia outside mas. If you were not in MAS, then dont you think its a little harsh to comment on the pilot standards there. Like I said, most of us were trained in other countries at CPL level.
Then again , everyone is entitled to his own opinion. Doesnt bother me anymore. You believe what you want to. I'll put the word out to the guys back home that they need to buck up. Surely we need to be of international standards.
You have a nice day now.
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I hope everybody has seen the result of the vote in France.The european countries dont want to see the citizens of the new joiner countries(Poland,Czech,Hungay,Latvia,Lithuania,Estonia,) working in their country even as plumbers,waiters etc.
So I think it can not be a serious question if malaysian or any other pilots outside of the E.U. would work in west europe.
I am sure,that the only airline where these new EU countries pilots can fly is Ryanair
So I think it can not be a serious question if malaysian or any other pilots outside of the E.U. would work in west europe.
I am sure,that the only airline where these new EU countries pilots can fly is Ryanair
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Think you have confused the issue a bit there Deske1 !
A primary reason for rejecting the proposed EU constitution is that individual countries are frightened of the possibility of losing their sovereignty and handing over complete control to a monolith in Brussels that is every bit as corrupt and useless as the UN.
As a pilot, once you have an EU passport and an EU acceptable licence you can apply for a job anywhere within the EU. Just a couple of problems though, most countries like France, Germany, Spain, England etc. etc. will expect you to be able to converse in their language as the Air Law exam, for example, will be written in the national language, as will all the other exams you may be required to sit to initially validate and subsequently upgrade your licence, not to mention that most of their administrative correspondence that you will have to deal with will also be in the national language.
From the employers point of view they want you to be able to slot right in with a minimum of fuss and integrate fully with your colleagues, if you can do that and you have relevant experience you then have to show at the interview that you are the best choice.
A primary reason for rejecting the proposed EU constitution is that individual countries are frightened of the possibility of losing their sovereignty and handing over complete control to a monolith in Brussels that is every bit as corrupt and useless as the UN.
As a pilot, once you have an EU passport and an EU acceptable licence you can apply for a job anywhere within the EU. Just a couple of problems though, most countries like France, Germany, Spain, England etc. etc. will expect you to be able to converse in their language as the Air Law exam, for example, will be written in the national language, as will all the other exams you may be required to sit to initially validate and subsequently upgrade your licence, not to mention that most of their administrative correspondence that you will have to deal with will also be in the national language.
From the employers point of view they want you to be able to slot right in with a minimum of fuss and integrate fully with your colleagues, if you can do that and you have relevant experience you then have to show at the interview that you are the best choice.
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Dear blue Bird,
I have to say that your statement is FALSE.As a citizen from one of the new joiners I can feel that I really know what I am talking about.
Fact:
1. I have an EU passport.
2. I have a JAA ATPL with 747-400,737-EFIS and 737-NG rating with the required experience for F/O.
So far the following airlines rejected my application from west europe even without hold it on file
asyJet,Cargolux,Global Supply System,Virgin,Air Europe,Futura,Air Berlin,Hapag Lloyd,BMI baby,Corsair,Jet2,Martinair,Transavia,Helios,Sterling,
Fluent in the local language?As I know at Cargolux there are a large group of Austrians.
Some of them declared that there are RESTRICTIONS against me to work in the EU and another one suggested me a Training School to get 737 rating.(Thanks,a second one..ha..ha)So,never got an interview.
As a second class citizen in the EU believe me,I have never applied for a vacancy where the requirements were higher than my qualification.
The industries of the western are overproducing and they need market,but on the other side they wont give any jobs for eastern people.What kind of EU is this?
What you say is the official version.The truth is that every western people fears that the cheaper labour force will move to their country.Thats the reason that everybody say NO when hear the word ;European Union.I guess when the Belgian will say NO as well!On the other side,it is natural that multi companies are coming to these countries and destroys the local industry.It is valid for the airlines as well.I see how our agricultural industry dies,but it is forbidden for my government to support it,only the french government can do it it France,and I eat the french goose liver at home,not ours and my people lose their jobs,however they cant work in another country.I am in the same situation,in the name of the free market,why my airline laid me off,and my home country is full of Easy,Air Berlin,Jet2 so on.But they will never employ me(US) even as F/O with my 2000 hrs RHS 737 experience.The only company considers me(US) is Ryanair,but it is something like the French Legion,they even dont care about your name,only need a valid licence.Why do you think I am in Asia?Why?Because as a citizen of the EU,there are restrictions against me.
This EU is not the same like it was 10 -15 years ago.Now it serves other interests,we are even forced to forget our christian roots.
Without the open eastern markets what would be the unemployment rate in the west?10-14 %?
What would you say to the unemployed voters in the west?
Its easy to tell us from the other side of the new iron curtain,that life is so good to us.
I have to say that your statement is FALSE.As a citizen from one of the new joiners I can feel that I really know what I am talking about.
Fact:
1. I have an EU passport.
2. I have a JAA ATPL with 747-400,737-EFIS and 737-NG rating with the required experience for F/O.
So far the following airlines rejected my application from west europe even without hold it on file
asyJet,Cargolux,Global Supply System,Virgin,Air Europe,Futura,Air Berlin,Hapag Lloyd,BMI baby,Corsair,Jet2,Martinair,Transavia,Helios,Sterling,Fluent in the local language?As I know at Cargolux there are a large group of Austrians.
Some of them declared that there are RESTRICTIONS against me to work in the EU and another one suggested me a Training School to get 737 rating.(Thanks,a second one..ha..ha)So,never got an interview.
As a second class citizen in the EU believe me,I have never applied for a vacancy where the requirements were higher than my qualification.
The industries of the western are overproducing and they need market,but on the other side they wont give any jobs for eastern people.What kind of EU is this?
What you say is the official version.The truth is that every western people fears that the cheaper labour force will move to their country.Thats the reason that everybody say NO when hear the word ;European Union.I guess when the Belgian will say NO as well!On the other side,it is natural that multi companies are coming to these countries and destroys the local industry.It is valid for the airlines as well.I see how our agricultural industry dies,but it is forbidden for my government to support it,only the french government can do it it France,and I eat the french goose liver at home,not ours and my people lose their jobs,however they cant work in another country.I am in the same situation,in the name of the free market,why my airline laid me off,and my home country is full of Easy,Air Berlin,Jet2 so on.But they will never employ me(US) even as F/O with my 2000 hrs RHS 737 experience.The only company considers me(US) is Ryanair,but it is something like the French Legion,they even dont care about your name,only need a valid licence.Why do you think I am in Asia?Why?Because as a citizen of the EU,there are restrictions against me.
This EU is not the same like it was 10 -15 years ago.Now it serves other interests,we are even forced to forget our christian roots.
Without the open eastern markets what would be the unemployment rate in the west?10-14 %?
What would you say to the unemployed voters in the west?
Its easy to tell us from the other side of the new iron curtain,that life is so good to us.
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com' on guys, relax. you all should know it's simply a matter of
demand and supply. a few years back i was working for a german
company and they employed pilots from all over the world,
americans, australiens, europe and non-europe. some, even
after years, didn't know any german at all.
being an expat means you have to look where they can need
you, either cause of expansion, bad management or whatsoever.
if there is no demand in your desired country - bad luck, try another nice place ! but one thing is for sure, if you manage to get a job in (old) europe you have all the social benefits (and taxes) as well. in most other places they will kick you out immediately as soon as they don't need you anymore.
demand and supply. a few years back i was working for a german
company and they employed pilots from all over the world,
americans, australiens, europe and non-europe. some, even
after years, didn't know any german at all.
being an expat means you have to look where they can need
you, either cause of expansion, bad management or whatsoever.
if there is no demand in your desired country - bad luck, try another nice place ! but one thing is for sure, if you manage to get a job in (old) europe you have all the social benefits (and taxes) as well. in most other places they will kick you out immediately as soon as they don't need you anymore.
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Hi Deske,
And langage spoken in Luxembourg is ??
Now, it is true that is difficult for an eastern europe pilot to find a job in werstern compagnies, but I have a scoop for you, it is not easier for westerners.
For most compagnies in France, Germany,.. having the correct nationality helps a lot.
Sure, knowledge of local langage helps as well but nothing beats being a local.
Some friends (native french speakers, JAA licence, EU passport) tried to find jobs in France. DGAC requires that your have its approval before execercising the privilege of your licence in France, and ... it takes months to received it. In the mean times, the compagnies had hired french guys with less experience but available immediately because they don't need it...
Germany request documents in german or the "radiation certificate", that nearly nobody had until recently except the german compagnies, etc , etc
That's not the way, JAA licencing and/or EU is supposed to work, but....
It changed only when a company doesn't find the guys it need. Then, the approval can be obtain in one afternoon, the certificate is not a requirement anymore, and langage knowledge is for cabin crew not for pilots....
As I know at Cargolux there are a large group of Austrians.
Now, it is true that is difficult for an eastern europe pilot to find a job in werstern compagnies, but I have a scoop for you, it is not easier for westerners.
For most compagnies in France, Germany,.. having the correct nationality helps a lot.
Sure, knowledge of local langage helps as well but nothing beats being a local.
Some friends (native french speakers, JAA licence, EU passport) tried to find jobs in France. DGAC requires that your have its approval before execercising the privilege of your licence in France, and ... it takes months to received it. In the mean times, the compagnies had hired french guys with less experience but available immediately because they don't need it...
Germany request documents in german or the "radiation certificate", that nearly nobody had until recently except the german compagnies, etc , etc
That's not the way, JAA licencing and/or EU is supposed to work, but....
It changed only when a company doesn't find the guys it need. Then, the approval can be obtain in one afternoon, the certificate is not a requirement anymore, and langage knowledge is for cabin crew not for pilots....
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Deske1
Thats a long list of companies you applied for. Seems weird.
Let me ask you this, who paid for your rating and experience??
Maybe the answer to your unsuccesful applications can be found there.
Thats a long list of companies you applied for. Seems weird.
Let me ask you this, who paid for your rating and experience??
Maybe the answer to your unsuccesful applications can be found there.
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I see the question.
Ok,step by step:
1. 14 years ago my glider licence was paid by my parents.
2. My PPL and towing by the aeroclub where I towed the gliders.
3.2 years of agricultural spray in my home country,ratings made by the company I have worked.
3.IFR paid by me
4.Instructor rating and multi-engine paid by the flight school where I have worked for another 2 years.
5. Turbo-prop/multi-crew by the DHL(2.5 years)
6. B737-EFIS/NG F/O rating by my national flag-carrier(3.5 years)
7. B747-400 F/O rating by my current employer in Asia.
Maybe not as good as to go and buy these things at a so called TRTO on a shortened course,although I got my 737 Transition Course at Lufthansa,Berlin.
But nobody sponsored my passport and my birth of origin,to be a non-second class citizen of the EU,to get even an interview anywhere on the other side of the continent,where it would endanger the income of the TRTOs.
Just see Cargolux;PAY the rating for us,and after that your job is guaranteed for a year.
I have great expectations,when Easyjet will open its base in my home country.I guess,who will fly those aircrafts?Those westerners who paid their ratings-(in other words
ut their money into the system to have a job).Welcome to EU,the land of the equal opportunities!Thanks.
Ok,step by step:
1. 14 years ago my glider licence was paid by my parents.
2. My PPL and towing by the aeroclub where I towed the gliders.
3.2 years of agricultural spray in my home country,ratings made by the company I have worked.
3.IFR paid by me
4.Instructor rating and multi-engine paid by the flight school where I have worked for another 2 years.
5. Turbo-prop/multi-crew by the DHL(2.5 years)
6. B737-EFIS/NG F/O rating by my national flag-carrier(3.5 years)
7. B747-400 F/O rating by my current employer in Asia.
Maybe not as good as to go and buy these things at a so called TRTO on a shortened course,although I got my 737 Transition Course at Lufthansa,Berlin.
But nobody sponsored my passport and my birth of origin,to be a non-second class citizen of the EU,to get even an interview anywhere on the other side of the continent,where it would endanger the income of the TRTOs.
Just see Cargolux;PAY the rating for us,and after that your job is guaranteed for a year.
I have great expectations,when Easyjet will open its base in my home country.I guess,who will fly those aircrafts?Those westerners who paid their ratings-(in other words
ut their money into the system to have a job).Welcome to EU,the land of the equal opportunities!Thanks.
Last edited by Deske1; 4th Jun 2005 at 13:24.
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I agree with deske 1, so you see if come as Asian race to EU even with type rated no chance lah
asian is the big chance for all EU people,i know that I've been study in one of EU country
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speedtwoten,
I would like to temperate that.
EU compagnies will not make a difference based on race. It is a fact that they will take a local above anybody else. To be fair, whitch company won't ??
No you must have the right to live and work in EU, or you would not even be considered.
Try to find a job in the States without 'green card' and see if that's easy....
If you have the papers (and you have to make all that by yourself), you will be considered like any other europeean non-local.
Asia readily accept EU pilots because they don't find on the local market the pilots with the required level of experience. My bet is the day asian airlines find them, the door will close for expats.
On the same token, I am sure that if EU compagnies do not find the guys they need, all these 'restrictions'will be lifted like by magic.
I would like to temperate that.
EU compagnies will not make a difference based on race. It is a fact that they will take a local above anybody else. To be fair, whitch company won't ??
No you must have the right to live and work in EU, or you would not even be considered.
Try to find a job in the States without 'green card' and see if that's easy....
If you have the papers (and you have to make all that by yourself), you will be considered like any other europeean non-local.
Asia readily accept EU pilots because they don't find on the local market the pilots with the required level of experience. My bet is the day asian airlines find them, the door will close for expats.
On the same token, I am sure that if EU compagnies do not find the guys they need, all these 'restrictions'will be lifted like by magic.
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So,finally to answer the original question;as the EU discriminates even the citizens of full EU member countries,i see no chance for malaysians in the EU even with JAA ATPL and right to live.
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sorry for the late reply, i just joined in... but Robert Palmer, i love u man!!!! i totally agree with the nice little things coming out of your keyboard...
Last edited by zob; 1st Sep 2006 at 15:13.
