Singapore Airlines: The people behind it.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Flight level 330
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Singapore Airlines: The people behind it.
Hi guys,
I took a bit of time to consider this post. While I aim to make it objective, I am also certainly in a position to generate as much truth as possible.
There has been much talk about Singapore Airlines in this forum, much of it not exactly pleasing. I do wonder if the Singapore Airlines (SIA) management is indeed made up of old fashioned suits who subscribe to the Old School mentality when recruiting, compensating and maintaining staff.
The number of posts here talking about the requirements of a Cadet Pilot interview is a case in point. The impression I get of SIA, based on the feedback by candidates, is one of a Company that knows it has monopolistic control of candidates. Afterall, Singaporeans who wish to take up flying has to go through them, thus the luxury of pick and choose, pscyhological bully during an interview and the regimental tactics cadets are subjected to during training.
Also, I understand that SIA Pilots are not paid very well, relative to their counterparts in other airlines. Why this is so, beats me. SIA is afterall the epitome of a money making Corporation that is practically a cash cow for many years. As a company, it has won many admirers and accolades for its achievements. So one does wonder if this is at the expense of a poorly paid workforce.
Finally, with LCC flooding into the asian region, its probably wise for SIA to reassess its position and adopt a more friendly work environment. Also, I will keenly look forward to the future when other airlines will open up their Cadet Pilot recruitment to citizens of other countries who are interested in a lifelong commitment to the airlines. Emirates, Thai, Cathay.. are u listening?
It will be justice served then to see where truely all aspiring pilots will flock to when given a choice. My bet is a very empty intray for SQ HR dept.
What say you?
I took a bit of time to consider this post. While I aim to make it objective, I am also certainly in a position to generate as much truth as possible.
There has been much talk about Singapore Airlines in this forum, much of it not exactly pleasing. I do wonder if the Singapore Airlines (SIA) management is indeed made up of old fashioned suits who subscribe to the Old School mentality when recruiting, compensating and maintaining staff.
The number of posts here talking about the requirements of a Cadet Pilot interview is a case in point. The impression I get of SIA, based on the feedback by candidates, is one of a Company that knows it has monopolistic control of candidates. Afterall, Singaporeans who wish to take up flying has to go through them, thus the luxury of pick and choose, pscyhological bully during an interview and the regimental tactics cadets are subjected to during training.
Also, I understand that SIA Pilots are not paid very well, relative to their counterparts in other airlines. Why this is so, beats me. SIA is afterall the epitome of a money making Corporation that is practically a cash cow for many years. As a company, it has won many admirers and accolades for its achievements. So one does wonder if this is at the expense of a poorly paid workforce.
Finally, with LCC flooding into the asian region, its probably wise for SIA to reassess its position and adopt a more friendly work environment. Also, I will keenly look forward to the future when other airlines will open up their Cadet Pilot recruitment to citizens of other countries who are interested in a lifelong commitment to the airlines. Emirates, Thai, Cathay.. are u listening?
It will be justice served then to see where truely all aspiring pilots will flock to when given a choice. My bet is a very empty intray for SQ HR dept. What say you?
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: avalon
Age: 50
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
" HALF FULL or HALF EMPTY"
Personally, SQ is a place for mercenaries.
Not a place to get "rupees".
SQ is a place to get 'free' 777 + 747 ratings'
If you screw a few 'SPG's" then you'll get a A345 ratings too.
While you're getting all the international exposure and
wide-body hours,
you can shoppe around for better carriers.
Oh, don't worry about leaving. SQ is used to giving free
ratings and see people leave later.
DOn't worry about the bond.. just crap 'locals' trying
to harrass unlucky foreigners.
A Few have broken it and they got jack from the law.
SO , for those eager to fly 777 / 744 / 345 and
screw lovely SPG's ...?
Welcome to the new world.
p.s: SQ's 777 have frequent fuel leakes from the engines.
so read up on QRH
Personally, SQ is a place for mercenaries.
Not a place to get "rupees".
SQ is a place to get 'free' 777 + 747 ratings'
If you screw a few 'SPG's" then you'll get a A345 ratings too.
While you're getting all the international exposure and
wide-body hours,
you can shoppe around for better carriers.
Oh, don't worry about leaving. SQ is used to giving free
ratings and see people leave later.
DOn't worry about the bond.. just crap 'locals' trying
to harrass unlucky foreigners.
A Few have broken it and they got jack from the law.
SO , for those eager to fly 777 / 744 / 345 and
screw lovely SPG's ...?
Welcome to the new world.
p.s: SQ's 777 have frequent fuel leakes from the engines.
so read up on QRH
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
linksys Post
A word of caution to those reading Linksys's post that don't know much about SIA.
There are no free ratings! You will sign a bond and if you skip your bond you will be chased where ever you go and taken to court. A bond is a contract, if you sign it you are expected to have both read and understood it or had it explained to you.
Fuel leaks on the B777? Would an engineer who knows care to comment? Certainly haven't heard from my colleagues there that this is a major problem.
There are no free ratings! You will sign a bond and if you skip your bond you will be chased where ever you go and taken to court. A bond is a contract, if you sign it you are expected to have both read and understood it or had it explained to you.
Fuel leaks on the B777? Would an engineer who knows care to comment? Certainly haven't heard from my colleagues there that this is a major problem.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: woop woop
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Frequent Fuel leaks? Rubbish!
I have flown the a/c for 4 years with SIA and never ever encountered one, or even heard of one for that matter.
I have flown the a/c for 4 years with SIA and never ever encountered one, or even heard of one for that matter.
Last edited by faheel; 26th Mar 2005 at 00:06.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Flight level 330
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looking at the lack of reply, I can summarise that there may be a fear by employees of SQ to express themselves against their employers.
Is this because SQ management has personnels who participate in this forum as well? I suppose i can understand then ...
Is this because SQ management has personnels who participate in this forum as well? I suppose i can understand then ...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Flight level 330
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An Airlines Pilot is an overly-glamorised job in Singapore. I wonder what will be the fate of tech crews in the future. Will they be a high class taxi driver in the same way that cabin crew are high class waiters/waitresses?
How long more will these Pilots swagger around within their pseudo-elite community. I share my concerns that the aviation bubble is about to burst within the next 10 years and highly specialised positions such as a tech crew may be vulnerable to further pay cuts and retrenchments.
How long more will these Pilots swagger around within their pseudo-elite community. I share my concerns that the aviation bubble is about to burst within the next 10 years and highly specialised positions such as a tech crew may be vulnerable to further pay cuts and retrenchments.
Robie dear boy - what caused that tirade. "An Airlines Pilot is an overly-glamorised job in Singapore" Is that just in Sin or would you put in that group BA, CX, EK, QF to name just a few??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Flight level 330
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys,
Sorry if i sounded pro-management. I am not, i assure you that. I am however concerned on several issues that I already discussed.
I am not sure if flying is over-glamorised in other countries. But I can be sure that it is in Singapore. Its just a mismatch in terms of the job expectations as imagined by the general public and how it contrasts with the real work that Pilots today really do.
Pilots can continue to behave as rich men that they are, but for how long? I hope that my post will serve as a gentle wake up call and allow Pilots to really see with absolute clarity what their future in this career will be like. Do we agree that a Pilots job is highly specialised and if there is indeed retrenchment, sure .. you can always say " I'll look for work in other airlines".. but what if your replacement is technology? Take a look around us, there are no bus conductors anymore, there are no flight engineers anymore, there are no Parking attendants anymore.. Why, because they went on to work for another Company...? or are their job totally replaced by technological advancement.
It doesn't help as well that the economic forces are working against big airlines, SIA being deep inside the problem. Where once you can put a premium on Good in-flight service, it has sadly become an overused benchmark. Many other airlines have surpassed it too. And whats a premium yesterday has already become a given today. So what is left to differentiate SIA from other LCCs? The pay package of their Pilots is better, thus come fly with SIA?
Lastly, a visit to SIA recently confirmed what i fear most, there is an old feel to the workings of the management there, still sticking to old ideas, not wanting to embrace a paradigm shift in terms of work strategies.
I hope that the above somewhat clarifies my objective for writing. Thanks and G'day!
Sorry if i sounded pro-management. I am not, i assure you that. I am however concerned on several issues that I already discussed.
I am not sure if flying is over-glamorised in other countries. But I can be sure that it is in Singapore. Its just a mismatch in terms of the job expectations as imagined by the general public and how it contrasts with the real work that Pilots today really do.
Pilots can continue to behave as rich men that they are, but for how long? I hope that my post will serve as a gentle wake up call and allow Pilots to really see with absolute clarity what their future in this career will be like. Do we agree that a Pilots job is highly specialised and if there is indeed retrenchment, sure .. you can always say " I'll look for work in other airlines".. but what if your replacement is technology? Take a look around us, there are no bus conductors anymore, there are no flight engineers anymore, there are no Parking attendants anymore.. Why, because they went on to work for another Company...? or are their job totally replaced by technological advancement.
It doesn't help as well that the economic forces are working against big airlines, SIA being deep inside the problem. Where once you can put a premium on Good in-flight service, it has sadly become an overused benchmark. Many other airlines have surpassed it too. And whats a premium yesterday has already become a given today. So what is left to differentiate SIA from other LCCs? The pay package of their Pilots is better, thus come fly with SIA?
Lastly, a visit to SIA recently confirmed what i fear most, there is an old feel to the workings of the management there, still sticking to old ideas, not wanting to embrace a paradigm shift in terms of work strategies.
I hope that the above somewhat clarifies my objective for writing. Thanks and G'day!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SIA a LCC?............Erm, I don't think so!
Now I am more convinced than ever that Mr Collins is just a troll, enjoying a wind up!
Go and buy a ticket on SIA and then tell us they are a LCC!
The whole SIA machine is very efficient and turns out a quality product, admired world wide. What SIA doesn't do is look after its staff.
Now I am more convinced than ever that Mr Collins is just a troll, enjoying a wind up!
Go and buy a ticket on SIA and then tell us they are a LCC!
The whole SIA machine is very efficient and turns out a quality product, admired world wide. What SIA doesn't do is look after its staff.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Flight level 330
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I certainly did not say SIA is a LCC. Maybe its my poor English or other people's inability to comprehend my post thats the stumbling block. I apologise nonetheless, cause I know that some others may have too big an ego to admit that they misinterpreted.
What i was mentioning was the impact LCCs have on the aviation industry. Yes, who doesn't know that SIA is a beautiful airlines who can fit pretty ladies into corsets disguised as kebayas.. but the consumers are not stupid. If there are cheaper alternatives, to hell with your good service blah blah, i'm gonna just pay less and still get from point A to point B.
Perhaps the analogy of the taxi driver is accurate after all. Sooner than we expected, consumers won't care nuts what color are the aeroplanes they will be flying in, so long as they can hail one, get from point A to point B, they will be happy. But wait! if there is one stubborn arrogant airlines with drivers who think they are Limo specialists.. consumers will skip that one. There's a line of other taxis waiting at the back anyway
What i was mentioning was the impact LCCs have on the aviation industry. Yes, who doesn't know that SIA is a beautiful airlines who can fit pretty ladies into corsets disguised as kebayas.. but the consumers are not stupid. If there are cheaper alternatives, to hell with your good service blah blah, i'm gonna just pay less and still get from point A to point B.
Perhaps the analogy of the taxi driver is accurate after all. Sooner than we expected, consumers won't care nuts what color are the aeroplanes they will be flying in, so long as they can hail one, get from point A to point B, they will be happy. But wait! if there is one stubborn arrogant airlines with drivers who think they are Limo specialists.. consumers will skip that one. There's a line of other taxis waiting at the back anyway
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
" So what is left to differentiate SIA from other LCCs? The pay package of their Pilots is better, thus come fly with SIA?"
Not much room for misinterpretation or an ego problem there Mr Collins, is there?
It is your use of the word 'other' that, according to your written post, ties SIA to the LCCs and not just compares it to them.
Your theory only holds water for short haul routes and EY pax on longer haul routes. There will always be pax that want the J and F class service as well as long haul EY pax who want the better service and leg room and are prepared to pay for it.
LCCs are not new, (well, to Singapore, maybe), they have been around a long time and carriers offering a full service have learned to live with them and thrive. If SIA ever feel seriously threatened they have enough cash to make the kind of share market offer that the LCC share holders will not be able to refuse. The dire warnings from LKY are just to frighten the employees of SIA into accepting continuing reductions in their Ts & Cs and as an SIA shareholder LKY, like the other SIA shareholders, (who, incidently, also hold shares in most if not all the LCCs!), don't want to see the amount of rice in their grossly over filled bowls diminish by even a small spoonful, its called 'greed'!
Not much room for misinterpretation or an ego problem there Mr Collins, is there?
It is your use of the word 'other' that, according to your written post, ties SIA to the LCCs and not just compares it to them.
Your theory only holds water for short haul routes and EY pax on longer haul routes. There will always be pax that want the J and F class service as well as long haul EY pax who want the better service and leg room and are prepared to pay for it.
LCCs are not new, (well, to Singapore, maybe), they have been around a long time and carriers offering a full service have learned to live with them and thrive. If SIA ever feel seriously threatened they have enough cash to make the kind of share market offer that the LCC share holders will not be able to refuse. The dire warnings from LKY are just to frighten the employees of SIA into accepting continuing reductions in their Ts & Cs and as an SIA shareholder LKY, like the other SIA shareholders, (who, incidently, also hold shares in most if not all the LCCs!), don't want to see the amount of rice in their grossly over filled bowls diminish by even a small spoonful, its called 'greed'!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Between land masses
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Robbie_collins (he or she) has a problem with the PILOTS and has a chip on his/her shoulder.
Go to Agony Aunt Forum and get it all of your chest there rather than wasting our time here with your childish prattle.
Go to Agony Aunt Forum and get it all of your chest there rather than wasting our time here with your childish prattle.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Take a look around us, there are no bus conductors anymore, there are no flight engineers anymore, there are no Parking attendants anymore..
But the DRIVERS on the trains, trams, and busses are still there - as are Air Force pilots.
Long before we see pilots jobs being replaced by technology, we can expect to see the trains' and underground (MRT) drivers replaced, then the aircraft loaders, and the drivers of aircraft pushback tugs.
Briefing staff at flight planning have now been replaced by computers where I work, leaving scores of people unemployed.
Menial, routine office work is going to be hard hit over the next decade or so, I feel.
How about your job, Robbie? How secure do you really feel?
What a marvellous world it's going to be - all of these driverless vehicles!!
Only problem is, no-one's going to have an income to be able to afford to ride on them!
Except probably PILOTS (yes, SIA ones at that!).
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Flight level 330
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys,
Thanks Omar for your comments. I apologise for my comments on the ego part. I see a valid point when you mention that SIA still have a pie to feed from, the long haul etc. I won't comment on anything with regard to the greed part though.
Guys Btw, I am not a Pilot by profession. I am not a former trainee either. I do however participate in discussions as a critical observer and one who has been fascinated by the Aviation industry since young. Unfortunate that my direct opinions are deemed to be childish or laced with angst at Pilots,
I just wonder...If you can't stomach other people's opinions, why are some people still here? And for goodness sake, shall we allow the general public to decide who is childish here..? This is a forum, not a soccer game. Those who only know how to reply only with sharp boo boo comments are rather childish themselves don't u think? Come forward with arguements and substantial points and you will see that your stay here will be more fruitful.
Kaptin M, thanks for your opinions. Its very logically presented. To put matters in perspective, no job is safe. I believe thats the idea you are putting across too. However, when you describe Menial, routine office work, I do wonder if the nature of flying an aircraft today is slowly moving in that direction too. In my opinion, the only thing that is stopping a commercial aircraft from being fully automated and "Pilot"less is passenger's perception of safety. Once the paying public can rationalise safety in an automated aircraft, we can probably remove another position in the flight deck for sure. From there, its just a matter of time before Pilots may one day control flights from the sanctuary of towers, much like ATC. Fantasy? closer to reality i feel.
As to my job, personally, do you really want to ask? but if you need an answer... yes, i am dispensable like everyone else, but if that is to happen, realistically that must be the day when you guys are already forming long lines at the employment office first
Cheers and G'day!
Thanks Omar for your comments. I apologise for my comments on the ego part. I see a valid point when you mention that SIA still have a pie to feed from, the long haul etc. I won't comment on anything with regard to the greed part though.
Guys Btw, I am not a Pilot by profession. I am not a former trainee either. I do however participate in discussions as a critical observer and one who has been fascinated by the Aviation industry since young. Unfortunate that my direct opinions are deemed to be childish or laced with angst at Pilots,
I just wonder...If you can't stomach other people's opinions, why are some people still here? And for goodness sake, shall we allow the general public to decide who is childish here..? This is a forum, not a soccer game. Those who only know how to reply only with sharp boo boo comments are rather childish themselves don't u think? Come forward with arguements and substantial points and you will see that your stay here will be more fruitful.
Kaptin M, thanks for your opinions. Its very logically presented. To put matters in perspective, no job is safe. I believe thats the idea you are putting across too. However, when you describe Menial, routine office work, I do wonder if the nature of flying an aircraft today is slowly moving in that direction too. In my opinion, the only thing that is stopping a commercial aircraft from being fully automated and "Pilot"less is passenger's perception of safety. Once the paying public can rationalise safety in an automated aircraft, we can probably remove another position in the flight deck for sure. From there, its just a matter of time before Pilots may one day control flights from the sanctuary of towers, much like ATC. Fantasy? closer to reality i feel.
As to my job, personally, do you really want to ask? but if you need an answer... yes, i am dispensable like everyone else, but if that is to happen, realistically that must be the day when you guys are already forming long lines at the employment office first
Cheers and G'day!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Good question!
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually some US Air Force aircraft are pilotless...could that be a sign? But seriously, pilotless aircraft will not be a problem for another 30-40 years (A380 and 787 need pilots).
Another thing is, the problems you discuss here are the same problems faced industrywide, you might even be the lucky ones! Pop up at the Middle East forum and see how things are down there, just as bad as yours or even worse. Even though the US industry is recovering, it remains crippled and many are not happy with their wages.
Are there pilot unions in Singapore? What powers do they have?
Cheers
guybrush
? But seriously, pilotless aircraft will not be a problem for another 30-40 years (A380 and 787 need pilots). Another thing is, the problems you discuss here are the same problems faced industrywide, you might even be the lucky ones! Pop up at the Middle East forum and see how things are down there, just as bad as yours or even worse. Even though the US industry is recovering, it remains crippled and many are not happy with their wages.
Are there pilot unions in Singapore? What powers do they have?
Cheers
guybrush
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Singapore
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just some quick thoughts on the “pilotless” aircraft.
Yes the air force flies and will continue to fly more and more “pilotless” aircraft. However there is one little difference with the commercial flights. The air force “pilotless” planes are also “passengerless”. The air force uses these airplanes as remote controlled weapon delivery or recognizing platforms.
An other small problem with flying is the third dimension ( height in simple words) As where with any other form of transport you can stop the vehicle and sort out your problems, with an airborne transport vehicle this is quite difficult. The moment you stop in midair your problems become real serious. I think we are still a good few years away from a situation where passengers comfortably get into a remote controlled airplane, with the “remote” possibility where, if something serious goes wrong, the controller says: “ tried A , tried B, sorry didn’t work. We have to write off this one, and by the way my shift is up I am going home” Passengers realy like the invested interest that we pilots share to all get safe to the end of the trip.
Yes the air force flies and will continue to fly more and more “pilotless” aircraft. However there is one little difference with the commercial flights. The air force “pilotless” planes are also “passengerless”. The air force uses these airplanes as remote controlled weapon delivery or recognizing platforms.
An other small problem with flying is the third dimension ( height in simple words) As where with any other form of transport you can stop the vehicle and sort out your problems, with an airborne transport vehicle this is quite difficult. The moment you stop in midair your problems become real serious. I think we are still a good few years away from a situation where passengers comfortably get into a remote controlled airplane, with the “remote” possibility where, if something serious goes wrong, the controller says: “ tried A , tried B, sorry didn’t work. We have to write off this one, and by the way my shift is up I am going home” Passengers realy like the invested interest that we pilots share to all get safe to the end of the trip.