Training bonds (good, bad & the ugly)
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Training bonds (good, bad & the ugly)
I understand several airlines are hiring non-typed FO's w/ a training bond ($30K-$50K I think). My understanding of training bonds is they transfer your tickets over to local regs via training in a small twin, then type you in the heavy, and require you to work for set number of years, say 3-5 years per the contract. If you leave, then you owe them the money. My question is: do they set you up with a bank for the loan guarantee or do you have to get the money yourself (i.e. set up your own loan through a bank)?
In the States back in the late 90's there were two PFT type of scenarios,
1. You sign a loan through a bank that the airline has set up and you pay off the loan each month (just like a student loan).
2. You sign a bond that requires you to work a set number of years per the contract, but no money is required up front (airline sets up the bond).
From looking at the websites, it seems CAL, SAI and EVA apply scenario #2. People have mentioned you have to bring $30K to the table for the job. I've researched this on pprune and there seems to be lots of different answers to this subject. I'm sure there are many of us who would like to clear up this issue.
Again, I've already researched this on pprune...just looking for the straight answer on whether FO's have to pay $30K for the job (i.e. loan) vs. a bond (i.e. no payment unless you jump ship).
Just to clarify, I'm not going to pay for my job...I'm just trying to get the facts straight.
Thanks in advance!
In the States back in the late 90's there were two PFT type of scenarios,
1. You sign a loan through a bank that the airline has set up and you pay off the loan each month (just like a student loan).
2. You sign a bond that requires you to work a set number of years per the contract, but no money is required up front (airline sets up the bond).
From looking at the websites, it seems CAL, SAI and EVA apply scenario #2. People have mentioned you have to bring $30K to the table for the job. I've researched this on pprune and there seems to be lots of different answers to this subject. I'm sure there are many of us who would like to clear up this issue.
Again, I've already researched this on pprune...just looking for the straight answer on whether FO's have to pay $30K for the job (i.e. loan) vs. a bond (i.e. no payment unless you jump ship).
Just to clarify, I'm not going to pay for my job...I'm just trying to get the facts straight.
Thanks in advance!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
When I was a bonded F/O with SQ, it was up to us to set the Bank guarantee in place ourselves.
This meant either:
(i) Using your own collateral (e.g. a house you owned) to secure the guarantee from the bank - in other words a mortgage. This was done at a bank in your own country. or
(ii) depositing the full amount of the bond with a bank, who then issued the airline with the Bank Guarantee.
In the cases of guys who didn't have the assets themselves, they either took out a loan, or asked relatives to go guarantor.
The SQ Bank Guarantee was a 24 hour call one, meaning they would have the money from the bank within 24 hours of calling it in.
I wasn't aware of SQ providing assistance to find a bank - it was all left up to you.
Some guys had their Bank Guarantees arranged through a bank in their home country - others who had the cash took it to Singapore, and arranged the guarantee with a Singaporean bank.
Hope that helps.
This meant either:
(i) Using your own collateral (e.g. a house you owned) to secure the guarantee from the bank - in other words a mortgage. This was done at a bank in your own country. or
(ii) depositing the full amount of the bond with a bank, who then issued the airline with the Bank Guarantee.
In the cases of guys who didn't have the assets themselves, they either took out a loan, or asked relatives to go guarantor.
The SQ Bank Guarantee was a 24 hour call one, meaning they would have the money from the bank within 24 hours of calling it in.
I wasn't aware of SQ providing assistance to find a bank - it was all left up to you.
Some guys had their Bank Guarantees arranged through a bank in their home country - others who had the cash took it to Singapore, and arranged the guarantee with a Singaporean bank.
Hope that helps.
Stereolab,
Depends on the airline, not all require you to have a bank guarantee.
Friends of mine in the SQ group have bonds in excess of SIN$100,000, but have no bank guarantee with SQ. They have a contract with the company that will reduce their "bond" by say 1/36th year month of service (if over 3 years).
Airlines in the region may elect to have arrangement with the regulator that would prevent you jumping ship to another operator using the licence and qualifications that your airline paid for.
For most people I know, its not a drama, they want to spend 3-5 years with the company anyway, to get a bag of experience.
Depends on the airline, not all require you to have a bank guarantee.
Friends of mine in the SQ group have bonds in excess of SIN$100,000, but have no bank guarantee with SQ. They have a contract with the company that will reduce their "bond" by say 1/36th year month of service (if over 3 years).
Airlines in the region may elect to have arrangement with the regulator that would prevent you jumping ship to another operator using the licence and qualifications that your airline paid for.
For most people I know, its not a drama, they want to spend 3-5 years with the company anyway, to get a bag of experience.
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Think as far as SIA goes if you are joining them unrated on type you sign a five year bond, (type #2) and also have to provide a bank gaurantee as explained by Kapt M.
If SIA then choose to retrain you for another fleet at some later date you will be required to sign a three year bond but without the guarantee.
If SIA then choose to retrain you for another fleet at some later date you will be required to sign a three year bond but without the guarantee.
The deal I got was pay for some of the Training (approx 7 or 8K USD equivelent) and bonded for 3 yrs for the rest. Contract for 5 yrs which If I see through I get my money back 4 yrs Half back. I also had to supply a Gaurantor,
Regards.
Regards.
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Thanks guys!
What I like to avoid is paying money upfront for training (i.e. bank guarantee). I heard that if you flunk training with some of these airlines, you have to pay the loan regardless...that's a bad deal.
So, I'm trying to see which airline contract requires bank guarantees (loans) and which do not. I'd hate to fill out the app. go through the long interview process and then find out the contract is shiiiite. I have no problem with a bond if it's a good company: like many pilots, I'm broke...so I have little collateral to give to a bank. I have no problem signing a bond, it would be nice to stay with a company for awhile.
Thanks again...any other recent contract info on other far east carriers (CAL, SIA, EVA) is greatly appreciated...
What I like to avoid is paying money upfront for training (i.e. bank guarantee). I heard that if you flunk training with some of these airlines, you have to pay the loan regardless...that's a bad deal.
So, I'm trying to see which airline contract requires bank guarantees (loans) and which do not. I'd hate to fill out the app. go through the long interview process and then find out the contract is shiiiite. I have no problem with a bond if it's a good company: like many pilots, I'm broke...so I have little collateral to give to a bank. I have no problem signing a bond, it would be nice to stay with a company for awhile.
Thanks again...any other recent contract info on other far east carriers (CAL, SIA, EVA) is greatly appreciated...
