Offer to join SilkAir
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Offer to join SilkAir
Fellow Ppruners,
I humbly request unbiased, professional advice.
I am currently working for a government owned national carrier and have an offer to join Silk Air as an FO on national terms. Here, I am on similar aircrafts and time to command is minimum 4-6 years. Although, I am a permanant employee and have tremendous job security and medical benefits for my entire family, rostering is the pits here and moving onto bigger/ long haul aircraft is next to impossible. Silk is stating that time to command is 3 years and then exists the opportunity, after 4-5 years in command, to move to SQ. The money is more at Silk but then again Singapore is an expensive city. I believe that on national terms you are a permanant employee. Is this true? Does this mean that you have job security? What are the real prospects for command?
I have a family (one child) and like the fact that Silk operates all quick return flights. Here, I am often out for 4-5 days at a stretch.
Do you guys think its worth to take the plunge?? Or, am I being a fool to leave the confines of my secure job?
Thanks in advance,
C
I humbly request unbiased, professional advice.
I am currently working for a government owned national carrier and have an offer to join Silk Air as an FO on national terms. Here, I am on similar aircrafts and time to command is minimum 4-6 years. Although, I am a permanant employee and have tremendous job security and medical benefits for my entire family, rostering is the pits here and moving onto bigger/ long haul aircraft is next to impossible. Silk is stating that time to command is 3 years and then exists the opportunity, after 4-5 years in command, to move to SQ. The money is more at Silk but then again Singapore is an expensive city. I believe that on national terms you are a permanant employee. Is this true? Does this mean that you have job security? What are the real prospects for command?
I have a family (one child) and like the fact that Silk operates all quick return flights. Here, I am often out for 4-5 days at a stretch.
Do you guys think its worth to take the plunge?? Or, am I being a fool to leave the confines of my secure job?
Thanks in advance,
C
Join Date: May 2000
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I have some buddies at Silk and they are not to happy. But then again I have buddies at Thai, Singapore, Korean, EVA, Kuwait, EMIRATES, and many airlines that are not happy either.
I have a bunch of unhappy friends it seems like. No truthfully I would caution all the promises and try to find a Silk Air crew member and ask him..........
Sorry I cannot help you with any sugestions.
"THE GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER OVER THE SEPTIC TANK." Erma Bombeck.
good Luck.
Hajj Man
I have a bunch of unhappy friends it seems like. No truthfully I would caution all the promises and try to find a Silk Air crew member and ask him..........
Sorry I cannot help you with any sugestions.
"THE GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER OVER THE SEPTIC TANK." Erma Bombeck.
good Luck.
Hajj Man
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Hi Chryse,
If I were you, I will certainly remain at where I am right now, I will not switch job or accept any other offer unless it is attractived enough and worth the crossover. Reasons:
1. On local terms? No thanks, I will consider if given expat terms.
2. Benefits? Will consider if equal or better.
3. Salary vs cost of living? If I can't save double or more than what I am saving right now, it is not worth to consider.
4. Command upgrade? WITHOUT PREJUDICE/WITH DUE RESPECT, I don't trust any airlines owned by S'pore govt because promotions will be given to locals (Singaporean) first until there is no one else to be promoted then only non singaporean will have a chance, if you are lucky enough ........
5. Command on widebody jet or on SQ? I will place this in my fantasy box at the corner of my memory ...... Not impossible but I will keep on dreaming ..........
6. Job security? Last in first out, I should learn a lesson during SARS or other misfortuned that happened in the last few years, their big bro LKY will cut cost like nobody business and his favourite move is to make pilots/cabin crew redundant, before I know, I am out of job already.
7. Etc......... etc ...... etc ......
Unless and until I can satisfy myself with at least the above questions, I will continue serving my present employer. Kindly do SWOT analysis and you may get some answers that you want. I believe the best job on earth is the one that I have right now ...................
If I were you, I will certainly remain at where I am right now, I will not switch job or accept any other offer unless it is attractived enough and worth the crossover. Reasons:
1. On local terms? No thanks, I will consider if given expat terms.
2. Benefits? Will consider if equal or better.
3. Salary vs cost of living? If I can't save double or more than what I am saving right now, it is not worth to consider.
4. Command upgrade? WITHOUT PREJUDICE/WITH DUE RESPECT, I don't trust any airlines owned by S'pore govt because promotions will be given to locals (Singaporean) first until there is no one else to be promoted then only non singaporean will have a chance, if you are lucky enough ........
5. Command on widebody jet or on SQ? I will place this in my fantasy box at the corner of my memory ...... Not impossible but I will keep on dreaming ..........
6. Job security? Last in first out, I should learn a lesson during SARS or other misfortuned that happened in the last few years, their big bro LKY will cut cost like nobody business and his favourite move is to make pilots/cabin crew redundant, before I know, I am out of job already.
7. Etc......... etc ...... etc ......
Unless and until I can satisfy myself with at least the above questions, I will continue serving my present employer. Kindly do SWOT analysis and you may get some answers that you want. I believe the best job on earth is the one that I have right now ...................
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Virtual reality,
Re promotions - many non Singaporeans have upgraded at MI in the past and will continue to do so.
Re SQ - many commanders have moved from MI to SQ 777 in the allotted time frame - this is an agreed practice. Some are being asked to come back to the 320 at Tiger for a period but the normal course of events is serve your time at MI and move off to SQ (except when SARS hit).
Re Job security - those on national terms (even foreigners)have been and will be safe. Only expats were knifed during SARS.
MI is not the perfect airline but then I have yet to find one.
Chryse,
Only you can answer the question. Be wary of making career decisions based on what ppruners say,
good luck.
Re promotions - many non Singaporeans have upgraded at MI in the past and will continue to do so.
Re SQ - many commanders have moved from MI to SQ 777 in the allotted time frame - this is an agreed practice. Some are being asked to come back to the 320 at Tiger for a period but the normal course of events is serve your time at MI and move off to SQ (except when SARS hit).
Re Job security - those on national terms (even foreigners)have been and will be safe. Only expats were knifed during SARS.
MI is not the perfect airline but then I have yet to find one.
Chryse,
Only you can answer the question. Be wary of making career decisions based on what ppruners say,
good luck.
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VR,
Very well said and you hit the nail on the head with your advice to CHRYSE.!!!!!!
Fat Eric, PPRUNERS are generally winners but i think in this case VR has given good advice. It is a well know fact that the first to go in a Singapore enviroment when things go bad are the Ex-pats. yes they get a call back to join after things settle down but the way things are run over there, the taxes and the promises may all fall apart. Chryse has a secure job,benifits and medical benifits for the entire family. Yes the rostering is bad but you know what, ROSTERING changes frequently at any airline and one year it is great and then next year all hell breaks loose and it goes down hill. If you chace a job for the roster then you are nuts.
Chryse, as Fat Eric did say " Only you can make your decisions" Include your life style now for your family as well and make your decision based on all the pros and cons of life
"the grass is always greener over the septic tank" Erma Bombeck Quote.
HM
Very well said and you hit the nail on the head with your advice to CHRYSE.!!!!!!
Fat Eric, PPRUNERS are generally winners but i think in this case VR has given good advice. It is a well know fact that the first to go in a Singapore enviroment when things go bad are the Ex-pats. yes they get a call back to join after things settle down but the way things are run over there, the taxes and the promises may all fall apart. Chryse has a secure job,benifits and medical benifits for the entire family. Yes the rostering is bad but you know what, ROSTERING changes frequently at any airline and one year it is great and then next year all hell breaks loose and it goes down hill. If you chace a job for the roster then you are nuts.
Chryse, as Fat Eric did say " Only you can make your decisions" Include your life style now for your family as well and make your decision based on all the pros and cons of life
"the grass is always greener over the septic tank" Erma Bombeck Quote.
HM
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Rostering in Silk has been the pits for quite some time, even before the current chronic shortage of crews, with one week rosters standard, so don't expect anything wonderful there.
As for time to command, just because it was 3 years last year doesn't mean the same will apply next year. You need continued expansion for that and Silk is going to get squeezed between all the LCCs starting in Singapore.
As for moving to SQ, it has happened in the past but will not happen for a long time to come, simply because they can't spare the crew. There are many there already who qualify to move but can't. They are under no obligation to fulfil that promise, it's simply a carrot they dangle so well.
NO COMMANDERS have moved WITHIN the allotted timeframe because there is no allotted time frame, simply a minimum time to qualify. After that it's totally up to the company to let you go. Many have taken considerably longer.
As for time to command, just because it was 3 years last year doesn't mean the same will apply next year. You need continued expansion for that and Silk is going to get squeezed between all the LCCs starting in Singapore.
As for moving to SQ, it has happened in the past but will not happen for a long time to come, simply because they can't spare the crew. There are many there already who qualify to move but can't. They are under no obligation to fulfil that promise, it's simply a carrot they dangle so well.
NO COMMANDERS have moved WITHIN the allotted timeframe because there is no allotted time frame, simply a minimum time to qualify. After that it's totally up to the company to let you go. Many have taken considerably longer.
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Thank you everyone for your honest answers.
You all are basically saying the same thing - looks like a carrot is being dangled. I have decided to stay with my present company.
Thanks again,
C
You all are basically saying the same thing - looks like a carrot is being dangled. I have decided to stay with my present company.
Thanks again,
C
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Chryse.
I suspect that the offer may be a contract with Silk and the salary is on national terms. This means that there are no extras paid as one would expect on an expatriat contract.
Permanent employment would only be offered to a National Singaporean, I believe.
If this is the case, you have no job protection.
A national F/O salary would make life very difficult indeed in Singapore.
Do the sums but include schooling, transport, medical and life insurance as well as provision for retirement.
You will be in the red .
You have to ask yourself why would SIA have two subsidaries flying the same aircraft to many of the same destinations.
I suspect that only one will survive and Silk has a much higher cost base than Tiger ( Assuming Tiger can attract enough crew with the low salary being offered).
Further with Value Air and the joint Qantas/Tamsek also flying 320s and Air Asia in the area, are there enough pooches to screw?
I suspect that the offer may be a contract with Silk and the salary is on national terms. This means that there are no extras paid as one would expect on an expatriat contract.
Permanent employment would only be offered to a National Singaporean, I believe.
If this is the case, you have no job protection.
A national F/O salary would make life very difficult indeed in Singapore.
Do the sums but include schooling, transport, medical and life insurance as well as provision for retirement.
You will be in the red .
You have to ask yourself why would SIA have two subsidaries flying the same aircraft to many of the same destinations.
I suspect that only one will survive and Silk has a much higher cost base than Tiger ( Assuming Tiger can attract enough crew with the low salary being offered).
Further with Value Air and the joint Qantas/Tamsek also flying 320s and Air Asia in the area, are there enough pooches to screw?
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Chryse,
Bear in mind also that your atpl is going to be degraded to a cpl, if you join SLK as an f/o, you will have to pass their atpl.
That's one of the requirements to be eligible for command.
Not a big issue one would say, but when the success rate is only 2 out of 10 candidates succeeding the "special assessment paper", your time to command may increase significantly with a lot of hassle ahead if you go for the "big" paper ie. 6 exams !
Knackered II and IT have already said everything about the finances, read also the gigantic thread about the SQ pilots under political pressure and the one about the SIA/SAS "deal".
Many excellent threads about life and work in SIN from Singapore based guys there.
Silkair, No thanks.
Happy flying where you are.
Cheers
Bear in mind also that your atpl is going to be degraded to a cpl, if you join SLK as an f/o, you will have to pass their atpl.
That's one of the requirements to be eligible for command.
Not a big issue one would say, but when the success rate is only 2 out of 10 candidates succeeding the "special assessment paper", your time to command may increase significantly with a lot of hassle ahead if you go for the "big" paper ie. 6 exams !
Knackered II and IT have already said everything about the finances, read also the gigantic thread about the SQ pilots under political pressure and the one about the SIA/SAS "deal".
Many excellent threads about life and work in SIN from Singapore based guys there.
Silkair, No thanks.
Happy flying where you are.
Cheers
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Chryse
Try Tiger. Fixed roster 5 earlys 2 off 5 lates 3 off.
$180 K Captains
$120 K F/Os
No accom allowance.
Grass is always greener on the other side but Tiger has big backers.
Try Tiger. Fixed roster 5 earlys 2 off 5 lates 3 off.
$180 K Captains
$120 K F/Os
No accom allowance.
Grass is always greener on the other side but Tiger has big backers.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"I am a permanant employee (for a government owned national carrier) and have tremendous job security and medical benefits for my entire family."
Chryse, I hate to say it, but YOU sound as though you ALREADY have THE perfect job!
"....rostering is the pits here" - mate, rostering is the bane of EVERY pilot worldwide.
Regardless of which airline you work for, there are very, very few that have an EFFICIENT crew scheduling system.
Stay where you are, you are on a guaranteed career progression with your current company. Use your job security to create some personal wealth (ie, the banks will be willing to loan you money for different investments because of your employment position), and let the airline worry about making money by learning to utilise their crews better.
Chryse, I hate to say it, but YOU sound as though you ALREADY have THE perfect job!
"....rostering is the pits here" - mate, rostering is the bane of EVERY pilot worldwide.
Regardless of which airline you work for, there are very, very few that have an EFFICIENT crew scheduling system.
Stay where you are, you are on a guaranteed career progression with your current company. Use your job security to create some personal wealth (ie, the banks will be willing to loan you money for different investments because of your employment position), and let the airline worry about making money by learning to utilise their crews better.
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Excellent question, and responses.
I always feel that the simplest equation is "What will it REALLY take me to leave the country of my birth/habitation?" Start with consideration of moving on current salary. If that is not acceptable, then how much extra does the salary/benefit package have to be make you turn yourself into a stranger in a strange land...? If the numbers don't add up to your personal comfort level, bearing in mind the final-salary pension versus provident fund/and the necessary property etc investment equations that are not always manifestly obvious, then the decision should be simple.
We all get itchy from time to time, but leaving ones own country is a massive decision, and never to be taken lightly, unless forced. Looking at what you actually HAVE versus what you percieve you will GET is a very very difficult task.. comparing them dispassionately is even harder.
I always feel that the simplest equation is "What will it REALLY take me to leave the country of my birth/habitation?" Start with consideration of moving on current salary. If that is not acceptable, then how much extra does the salary/benefit package have to be make you turn yourself into a stranger in a strange land...? If the numbers don't add up to your personal comfort level, bearing in mind the final-salary pension versus provident fund/and the necessary property etc investment equations that are not always manifestly obvious, then the decision should be simple.
We all get itchy from time to time, but leaving ones own country is a massive decision, and never to be taken lightly, unless forced. Looking at what you actually HAVE versus what you percieve you will GET is a very very difficult task.. comparing them dispassionately is even harder.
